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Peter Enn's lecture on Adam

Mallon

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Theologian Peter Enns (the same guy that Ken Ham ranted about recently, getting himself kicked out of the homeschooling conference) has a really interesting lecture posted on his blog, discussing the relationship between Adam and Israel. Check it out!

YouTube - Lecture: Erasmus Lecture -- Peter Enns, Feb. 9, 2011
 

mark kennedy

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I realize that Ken Ham being 'uninvited' from the Great Homeschooling Conference has been covered in another thread. Still I think Ken Ham's criticism of Peter Enn, calling his views Liberal Theology is the watershed issue.

Sadly, one of the speakers also listed to give presentations does not believe in a historical Adam or historical Fall (he will also be promoting his “Bible” curriculum for homeschoolers). In fact, what he teaches about Genesis is not just compromising Genesis with evolution, it is outright liberal theology that totally undermines the authority of the Word of God. It is an attack on the Word—on Christ. Ken Ham blog article Another Compromiser Speaking at Home School Convention.

Thanks Mallon for the utube lecture, it was very interesting. He did a very good job outlining the issues involved, However, I'm rather disappointed in his view of the historical aspect of the Genesis account. For an Evangelical to call someones teaching 'Liberal Theology' is very serious, this is what I took away from the lecture.

Dr. Enn talks for a while about how Genesis can be interpreted in such a way that it takes some of the tension away. Then he says that had Genesis been the only obstacle the issue would be solved. The problem is that Paul makes a very direct exposition of the text indicating that the sin and death problem can be traced back to Adam. Two points:

Adam- Disobedience results in sin and death
Christ- Obedience results in righteousness and life.​

Paul is said to be an ancient man among others with his own unique view. What Dr. Enn explains is that Paul is 'retexualizing' the account meaning he is not telling us what it meant when written but what it means to us now. He uses the illustration of a Pasteur leaves some things out in order to make the message relevant. He also says that Paul is speaking as a Pasteur not a scholar.

Clearly what Dr. Enn is doing is removing the historicity of the Genesis account. Of course Ken Ham is going to see this as Liberal Theology. Now to be fair he does point out that the Old Testament for Paul was Christ centered. Discusses that the book of Romans is not really about salvation as much as how Jews and Gentiles are brought together under the headship of Christ. Most importantly, it's about how God solved the problem of sin and death.

Then after making some pretty insightful statements emphasizing the theme of Romans he tells us that Paul is using Adam creatively. That's where the warning flags go up. In his synthesis of theology and science the creation of Adam and Adam being the first parent is not true while theologically the problem is sin and death remains a pressing concern. He says that the problem of sin and death are real even if the historical account is not true.

Ken Ham is right, this is Liberal Theology. Removing the historicity of the Scriptures is not just a compromise it's a sell out. The solution for Dr. Enn is to abandon the historical character of the Genesis account and to discount the explicit teaching of Paul as a creative illustration.

This is the Public Response from Great Homeschool Conventions.

'Dr. Ham was removed for his spirit not for his message'. Calling his remarks 'proud, ungrateful and divisive spirit'. Other Young Earth Creationists are allowed but only if they are not critical of the Convention and other speakers.

I personally am appalled at their reaction, of course Peter Enn's views reflect a Liberal worldview. The Convention goes to great lengths to explain that they are in fact Christian which is beside the point. Liberal Theology is a secular philosophy put in theological terminology and Ken Ham has every right and reason to be critical of it. Points made by the Convention in their response:

  1. Great Homeschool Conventions is unashamedly Christian.
  2. One of the core values of our convention is that good people can disagree and still be good people.
  3. We believe that parent-educators are very capable of making intelligent decisions for themselves and for their family.
  4. We believe that, whereas debate over ideas is necessary, Christians should not question the integrity, the intelligence, or the salvation of other Christians when debating Biblical issues.

While the Great Homeschool Convention may well be Christian the dismissal of Paul's explicit teaching with regards to Original Sin is not. What is more the historicity of Scripture is not open to some creative retextualization. More importantly, this was not a personal attack, Ken Ham is rejecting the same secular philosophy he always has.

Rejecting a secular philosophy for being extra-biblical is not the same as attacking a persons beliefs. The charge is absurd, the historicity of Scripture is a key doctrinal issue and Ken Ham has every right to take his stand against this encroaching poison pill.

Peter Enn is obviously 'synthesising' Darwinian evolution with Biblical theism by dismissing the historicity of the Scriptures. This is a dangerous doctrinal abdication of essential Biblical theism. After hearing his lecture, which is really not all that bad, I have to agree with Ken Ham.

He accepts what the secular world teaches concerning evolution and millions of years, and it is so obvious this determines how he approaches the Bible. He does not have the same view of inspiration as I do. In fact, he doesn’t have the biblical view of inspiration: “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,” (2 Timothy 3:16).

To understand Peter Enns’s approach to Genesis and Romans (which will shock you), you need to watch his lecture given recently at Westmont College. (Lecture available in the OP, Ken Ham blog article linked and cited above)​

Ken Ham did the right thing is taking his stand on the historicity of Scripture and the inspiration of the Word of God. This lecture is classic Liberal Theology commingled with Evangelical Theology. Ken Ham was right to warn people of it's dangerous content.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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crawfish

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Mark,

I think all of us understand how you feel. However, there is no question that Ham's use of language and rhetoric is divisive and designed to push buttons. In the end, to let Ham in would have been to bring a debate into the convention. Ham and his ilk tend to use fear tactics as their top-level defense against organizations like Biologos; most of their readers hardly go beyond that level to understand the true issues. At least that's what I've seen from my YEC peers who point me to the site. In the end, as Christians we should stand up for what we believe (and there are many, many differences between all of us), but we MUST treat each other with love and respect if we want to emulate Christ and follow the example put forth by His Apostles.

As a non-YEC that homeschooled his son for six months (while waiting to get him enrolled in a local charter school), I was completely unsatisfied with the science offerings by the major Homeschool providers. I commend GHC for have the open mind to consider alternatives that will make a wider range of source materials available.
 
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Mallon

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Thanks for your input, mark. I guess where I disagree with you is in your characterization of Enns' approach as a purely reactive one, devised as a 'liberal' means of marrying evolution and Christianity. I don't think this follows from Enns' lecture at all. Really, Enns' description of the Adam of the OT and Paul's Adam follows directly from Scripture (or rather, from an interpretation of it), and makes no appeal to evolution whatsoever for justification. As Enns' himself says, many of these ideas concerning Adam were floating around among Jewish and Christian scholars long before Darwin devised his theory. I take your point that, to Ken Ham, this is blasphemy. I guess I wish that Ham wouldn't just write it off as such, and would instead deal with what Enns' actually has to say. I think labeling something as 'liberal' just so you don't have to deal with it is the ultimate cop-out.
 
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Rejecting a secular philosophy for being extra-biblical is not the same as attacking a persons beliefs. The charge is absurd, the historicity of Scripture is a key doctrinal issue and Ken Ham has every right to take his stand against this encroaching poison pill.

I have no idea how the video above is a secular philosophy in theological terms. What do you make of priests who don't believe in God or the resurrection.... just even more of a secular philosophy in theological terms. What the guy in the video says seems more moderate than liberal as it is possible to go much more liberal than he did.

Also the creation story is only a key historical belief if that is what it was actually meant to be. It isn't obvious to an unbias reader that it was.
 
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CryptoLutheran

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Enns makes some really good points, a number of which I already adhered to and some which got me thinking harder on some issues. I find the notion of Adam as "precapitulating" (I suppose would be the word) the story of Israel really fascinating and admittedly something I had never thought of before.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Siyha

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For those of you who haven't read it, Peter Enn's "Inspiration and Incarnation" is a very valuable book to the discussion of Genesis outside scientific concerns, and to the OT as a whole and how to approach it on terms of history.

Working on my master's in OT I have found that it's referenced and cited a lot, by people both for and against Enns' "side" of the debate.

Youtube videos and short lectures rarely give you a good feel for what a person is trying to say - they work good for edification for those who already agree, but if you want the real meat behind a side you need to dig up their literature.

*edit: One thing Enns makes clear in the book is that just as the Babylonians believed Enuma Elish really happened, and the Canaanites believed the Baal Cycle really happened, the original readers of Genesis 1 would have believed it really happened - so there is a common ground starting point between himself and YEC's.
 
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Mallon

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For those of you who haven't read it, Peter Enn's "Inspiration and Incarnation" is a very valuable book to the discussion of Genesis outside scientific concerns, and to the OT as a whole and how to approach it on terms of history.

Working on my master's in OT I have found that it's referenced and cited a lot, by people both for and against Enns' "side" of the debate.

Youtube videos and short lectures rarely give you a good feel for what a person is trying to say - they work good for edification for those who already agree, but if you want the real meat behind a side you need to dig up their literature.
Indeed. I actually read through a couple of Enns' essays on the Biologos site today. Good stuff. Looking forward to reading his book! :thumbsup:

BTW, what's your research topic, Siyha?
 
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Siyha

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He accepts what the secular world teaches concerning evolution and millions of years, and it is so obvious this determines how he approaches the Bible. He does not have the same view of inspiration as I do. In fact, he doesn’t have the biblical view of inspiration: “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,” (2 Timothy 3:16).


I must have missed where he disagrees with that verse.​
 
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Siyha

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Indeed. I actually read through a couple of Enns' essays on the Biologos site today. Good stuff. Looking forward to reading his book! :thumbsup:

BTW, what's your research topic, Siyha?

I don't have one yet. I've been working while I do my master's, so my program is going to take me a few years still. When I started my degree, I wanted to do it on Genesis 1-3, but I'm finding that the creation/evolution debate is less and less relevant as I work as an actual pastor (thus my absence from the forums these last 9 months). I think I want to keep it as a hobby and side thing.

I've been doing a lot of research into Ugarit and the Old Testament, especially the religion of Baal and how it relates to 1&2 Kings - I might turn that into my thesis. It deals a lot with syncretism between religions and cultures which I think is a relevant topic for the modern church.
 
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mark kennedy

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Mark,

I think all of us understand how you feel. However, there is no question that Ham's use of language and rhetoric is divisive and designed to push buttons.

I don't think you do know how I feel or, more importantly, how serious evangelicals are about this. This is an exposition of the most important text for Bible believing Christians. The connection of theistic evolution to liberal theology is inescapable. I worry that you have no idea how serious the subject matter is for evangelicals.

The Battle for the Beginning, John Macarthur

A bit short but RC Sproul is one of the speakers and it underscores the influence of philosophy and liberal theology.

Is Evolution Compatible with Christianity

One more in two parts. This is Dr. Martin who did a lot of work in the counter cult evangelism and apologetics. For the theology behind creationism this can help people learn just how serious and broad the theological issues are.

Walter Martin Cult of Liberal Theology Part I

Dr. Walter Martin - Part 2 of 2

In the end, to let Ham in would have been to bring a debate into the convention. Ham and his ilk tend to use fear tactics as their top-level defense against organizations like Biologos; most of their readers hardly go beyond that level to understand the true issues. At least that's what I've seen from my YEC peers who point me to the site. In the end, as Christians we should stand up for what we believe (and there are many, many differences between all of us), but we MUST treat each other with love and respect if we want to emulate Christ and follow the example put forth by His Apostles.

That is a strange thing indeed to hear from an evolutionist. You preach tolerance and open mindedness but what I see practiced is a no holds bared attack on creationists. Not a single poster to these forums is admonished for being unduly harsh with creationists, in fact, every thread has someone who does little more the hurl insults at them.

More importantly, you really don't understand that Ken Ham considers himself a watchman on the wall.

I appointed watchmen over you and said, 'Listen to the sound of the trumpet!' But you said, 'We will not listen.' (Jer. 6:17)​

As a non-YEC that homeschooled his son for six months (while waiting to get him enrolled in a local charter school), I was completely unsatisfied with the science offerings by the major Homeschool providers. I commend GHC for have the open mind to consider alternatives that will make a wider range of source materials available.

This isn't about source material for homeschoolers. This is about Christian conviction regarding the authority of the Word of God. I do hope you will understand that the charge of undermining the authority of Scripture is not to be taken lightly.

I personally would like to see Biology taught to school age children without resorting to a Biblical or Naturalist worldview. This, I am convinced, is not only possible but vastly better and more beneficial then the excursions into natural history. This is only possible when Darwinism is abandoned along with it's naturalistic assumptions.

Understand this, we are not talking about marginal differences of opinion. We are talking about a clash of world views, one that believes the Genesis accounts and one that does not. I fear that you have no idea how serious the theological implications are for the subject matter. I would suggest you take a good look at the creationist view from a New Testament perspective and consider just how much weight the theological implications have for evangelicals.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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mark kennedy

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Thanks for your input, mark. I guess where I disagree with you is in your characterization of Enns' approach as a purely reactive one, devised as a 'liberal' means of marrying evolution and Christianity. I don't think this follows from Enns' lecture at all. Really, Enns' description of the Adam of the OT and Paul's Adam follows directly from Scripture (or rather, from an interpretation of it), and makes no appeal to evolution whatsoever for justification. As Enns' himself says, many of these ideas concerning Adam were floating around among Jewish and Christian scholars long before Darwin devised his theory. I take your point that, to Ken Ham, this is blasphemy. I guess I wish that Ham wouldn't just write it off as such, and would instead deal with what Enns' actually has to say. I think labeling something as 'liberal' just so you don't have to deal with it is the ultimate cop-out.

That's because you have no idea what 'liberalism' is to an evangelical. Peter Enn wrote Paul's explicit testimony off as one opinion among many, just as you so often write Genesis 1 off as figurative. The New Testament clearly affirms the historical character of Genesis in no uncertain terms and when you attack this foundational point the reaction will be uncompromising.

Calling it liberal theology is not a 'cop-out', it's an indictment. Why you don't see this is a mystery to me but the canon of Scripture is not a marginal doctrinal issue, it's the bedrock of Christian theism.

Many modern Protestants point to the following four "Criteria for Canonicity" to justify the selection of the books that have been included in the New Testament:

  • Apostolic Origin — attributed to and based upon the preaching/teaching of the first-generation apostles (or their close companions).
  • Universal Acceptance — acknowledged by all major Christian communities in the ancient world (by the end of the 4th century) as well as accepted canon by Jewish authorities (for the Old Testament).
  • Liturgical Use — read publicly when early Christian communities gathered for the Lord's Supper (their weekly worship services).
  • Consistent Message — containing a theological outlook similar to or complementary to other accepted Christian writings.

Biblical canon

To dismiss Paul's teaching of the historicity of Adam and original sin because it's Paul's 'retextualization' is absurd and offensive. Ken Ham's reaction was mild compared to the outrageous implications of Peter Enn's teaching.
 
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mark kennedy

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For those of you who haven't read it, Peter Enn's "Inspiration and Incarnation" is a very valuable book to the discussion of Genesis outside scientific concerns, and to the OT as a whole and how to approach it on terms of history.

That book is based on the incarnation being an analogy as opposed to history which is proof positive that evolutionary naturalistic assumptions are not limited to the Genesis account.

According to Enns’s estimation, “the Incarnational Analogy of Scripture, although only an analogy, is a powerful pastoral and persuasive theological model, one that I feel evangelicals could call upon much more intentionally than seems to be the case.” A CRITICAL EVALUATION OF PETER ENNS’ THEOLOGICAL METHOD IN HIS FORMULATION OF THE INCARNATIONAL MODEL OF SCRIPTURE

In response to this and other problems with this dismissal of essential Christian theism the Westminster Theological Seminary’s Board of Trustees fired him as Old Testament Associate Professor.

This is the kind of theologian Christian home schoolers want to teach their children? Seriously!!!!

Working on my master's in OT I have found that it's referenced and cited a lot, by people both for and against Enns' "side" of the debate.

Youtube videos and short lectures rarely give you a good feel for what a person is trying to say - they work good for edification for those who already agree, but if you want the real meat behind a side you need to dig up their literature.

*edit: One thing Enns makes clear in the book is that just as the Babylonians believed Enuma Elish really happened, and the Canaanites believed the Baal Cycle really happened, the original readers of Genesis 1 would have believed it really happened - so there is a common ground starting point between himself and YEC's.

Your right about one thing, the utube video is hardly adequate to show just how far Peter Enn has gone. He has abandoned Christian theism and yet his presence is preferred to someone who has the audacity to stand on the testimony of Scripture.

There is a word for Peter Enn's theology, it's called liberal theology.
 
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mark kennedy

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I have no idea how the video above is a secular philosophy in theological terms. What do you make of priests who don't believe in God or the resurrection.... just even more of a secular philosophy in theological terms. What the guy in the video says seems more moderate than liberal as it is possible to go much more liberal than he did.

What I make of priests who don't believe in God or the resurrection is that they are unbelievers and wolves in sheep's clothing. It is classic liberalism and Peter Enn not only rejects the historicity of Genesis but the incarnation as well.

There is no way Christians can accept this view as doctrinally sound. It is diametrically opposed to Christian theism. That is what is meant by a philosophy put in theological terminology. It's actually systematic unbelief that says sure I believe it, then dismisses the reliability of the Scriptures as redemptive history.

AKA, Classic Liberal Theology.

Also the creation story is only a key historical belief if that is what it was actually meant to be. It isn't obvious to an unbias reader that it was.

Really? How about this one?

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)​

Literal or figurative?

And oh, btw, this is a Christians only forum in case you didn't know.

Have a nice day :wave:
Mark
 
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mark kennedy

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Indeed. I actually read through a couple of Enns' essays on the Biologos site today. Good stuff. Looking forward to reading his book! :thumbsup:

Please Mallon, if you read the book do share your thoughts in the Origins Theology forum. I would be very eager to hear what you think of the "Incarnational model of Scripture".

Have a nice day :wave:
Mark
 
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solarwave

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What I make of priests who don't believe in God or the resurrection is that they are unbelievers and wolves in sheep's clothing. It is classic liberalism and Peter Enn not only rejects the historicity of Genesis but the incarnation as well.

Well is doesn't accept the incarnation be his liberal, and probably not Christian depending of how he phrases his disbelief.

There is no way Christians can accept this view as doctrinally sound. It is diametrically opposed to Christian theism. That is what is meant by a philosophy put in theological terminology. It's actually systematic unbelief that says sure I believe it, then dismisses the reliability of the Scriptures as redemptive history.

AKA, Classic Liberal Theology.

Are you talking about non-belief in the incarnation or thinking that the creation story is metaphorical?

Really? How about this one?
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)
Literal or figurative?

Probably meant to be literal.

And oh, btw, this is a Christians only forum in case you didn't know.

I know :thumbsup:
 
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Mallon

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That's because you have no idea what 'liberalism' is to an evangelical. Peter Enn wrote Paul's explicit testimony off as one opinion among many, just as you so often write Genesis 1 off as figurative. The New Testament clearly affirms the historical character of Genesis in no uncertain terms and when you attack this foundational point the reaction will be uncompromising.

Calling it liberal theology is not a 'cop-out', it's an indictment. Why you don't see this is a mystery to me but the canon of Scripture is not a marginal doctrinal issue, it's the bedrock of Christian theism.

Many modern Protestants point to the following four "Criteria for Canonicity" to justify the selection of the books that have been included in the New Testament:

  • Apostolic Origin — attributed to and based upon the preaching/teaching of the first-generation apostles (or their close companions).
  • Universal Acceptance — acknowledged by all major Christian communities in the ancient world (by the end of the 4th century) as well as accepted canon by Jewish authorities (for the Old Testament).
  • Liturgical Use — read publicly when early Christian communities gathered for the Lord's Supper (their weekly worship services).
  • Consistent Message — containing a theological outlook similar to or complementary to other accepted Christian writings.

Biblical canon

To dismiss Paul's teaching of the historicity of Adam and original sin because it's Paul's 'retextualization' is absurd and offensive. Ken Ham's reaction was mild compared to the outrageous implications of Peter Enn's teaching.
Thanks again, mark. I guess I just don't find labeling in idea as "liberal" a convincing argument against it.
 
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shernren

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Incarnation and Inspiration, p57: (emphases in original)
... The starting point for our discussion is the following: as Christ is both God and human, so is the Bible. In other words, we are to think of the Bible in the same way that Christians think about Jesus. Christians confess that Jesus is both God and human at the same time. He is not half-God and half-human. He is not sometimes one and other times the other. Rather, one of the central doctrines of the Christian faith, worked out as far back as the Council of Chalcedon in AD 451, is that Jesus is 100 percent God and 100 percent human - at the same time.

This way of thinking of Christ is analogous to thinking about the Bible. In the same way that Jesus is - must be - both God and human, the Bible is also a divine and human book. Although Jesus was "God with us," He still completely assumed the cultural trappings of the world in which He lived. In fact, this is what is implied in "God with us." Perhaps this is part of what the author of Hebrews had in mind when he said that Christ was "made like his brothers in every way" (Heb 2:17). Jesus was a first-century Jew. The languages of the time (Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic) were his languages. Their customs were his customs. He fit, He belonged, He was one of them.

So, too, the Bible. It belonged in the ancient worlds that produced it. It was not an abstract, otherworldly book, dropped out of heaven. It was connected to and therefore spoke to those ancient cultures. The encultured qualities of the Bible, therefore, are not extra elements that we can discard to get to the real point, the timeless truths. Rather, precisely because Christianity is a historical religion, God's word reflects the various historical moments in which Scripture was written. God acted and spoke in history. As we learn more and more about that history, we must gladly address the implications of that history for how we view the Bible, that is, what we should expect from it.

This way of thinking about the Bible is referred to differently by different theologians. The term I prefer is incarnational analogy: Christ's incarnation is analogous to Scripture's "incarnation."
So Peter Enns thinks Christianity is an entirely historical religion, Christ is both man and God all the time, and that the encultured qualities of the Bible are wholly integral to its communication.

Wow! He must be a liberal theologian! I see him liberally applying sound doctrine throughout the book, after all.

Say what you will about his conclusions, but I believe his methodology is not only theologically sound but fundamentally God- and Bible-centered. I'd side with him any day rather than the YECs who think the canopy is code-word for a big shroud of radiation-blocking water vapor, or that stretching out the heavens refers to the relativistic expansion of space-time ...
 
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