Peter as the first Pope or bishop of Rome

[timothyu]

ok? That's your interpretation.

Its what was plainly said. Nothing even hinting at building institutions that resembled the traditional governments of man or another Temple.

 

[RileyG]

It’s what was plainly said. Nothing even hinting at building institutions that resembled the traditional governments of man or another Temple.

So no buildings then? Whats your point?

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

Considering Jesus was Jewish and all of her original apostles were Jewish.....he was very much finding a religion, but you're right, he didn't want hypocrisy or empty rituals....but he established certain rituals and traditions that have been important to Christians for millennia

Commandments and truths. No rituals. No traditions.

 

[RileyG]

Commandments and truths. No rituals. No traditions.

That’s not Judaism or Christianity AT ALL.

 

[prodromos]

Commandments and truths. No rituals. No traditions.

The rituals and traditions were already established by the Apostles before one word of the New Testament was recorded. Apart from the Gospels which don't describe the Church because it wasn't established until Pentecost, most of the remainder of the New Testament is written by Paul, who was late to the party, spending his early days persecuting the Church that had already been built by the Apostles, and that by word of mouth, face to face, not by letter. Most of the Apostles wrote nothing.

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

Commandments and truths. No rituals. No traditions.

The rituals and traditions were already established by the Apostles before one word of the New Testament was recorded. Apart from the Gospels which don't describe the Church because it wasn't established until Pentecost, most of the remainder of the New Testament is written by Paul, who was late to the party, spending his early days persecuting the Church that had already been built by the Apostles, and that by word of mouth, face to face, not by letter. Most of the Apostles wrote nothing.

There were no popes, patriarchs, papal states, indulgences, basilicas, inquisitions, mass murder of dissenters and unbelievers, or vow-swearing priests, bishops, monks, or nuns, established by obedience of Apostles of God.

 

[timothyu]

So no buildings then? Whats your point?

So no buildings then?

Nor governments

 

[Michie]

This is seriously starting to feel like trolling imo. You can lay out the truth piece by piece and you just get nuh-uh. No proof, nothing back. Just empty objections.

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

Objections only empty, to those that are not concerned with things Christ the Lord has said, brought forward within this same thread.

 

[Michie]

Objections only empty, to those that are not concerned with things Christ the Lord has said, brought forward within this same thread.

That’s not your call. You can’t back up anything you say in any meaningful way. I find your interpretation of Scripture creepy and extremely superficial. JMO.

 

[JEBofChristTheLord]

Oh, but to back up things in a way some find "meaningful", requires placing words of people not God, as more important than words of God Himself. Very interesting pattern. Not new at all. Much older than the Lord's church.

 

[prodromos]

Oh, but to back up things in a way some find "meaningful", requires placing words of people not God, as more important than words of God Himself. Very interesting pattern. Not new at all. Much older than the Lord's church.

Another nothing response.

 

[timothyu]

Much older than the Lord's church.

Wisdom of man is learned from fellow man, while wisdom from God has not yet found allegiance. Allegiance as a result of rejecting the wisdom of man.

 

[prodromos]

Wisdom of man is learned from fellow man, while wisdom from God has not yet found allegiance. Allegiance as a result of rejecting the wisdom of man.

Do not doubt your strength, it only gives strength to your doubt.
The Sphinx, Mystery Men.

 

[ozso]

In 1 Corinthians 3 Paul made it clear the church wasn't supposed to have a supreme leader.

He wraps it up in saying:

21 So then, no more boasting about human leaders! All things are yours, 22 whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas[ a] or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, 23 and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God. [a] That is, Peter 1 Corinthians 3:21-23

It couldn't be any clearer that there isn't supposed to be a Holy Father Pope sitting on a throne.

 

[Michie]

1 Corinthians 3:21-23 does not disprove a pope or leadership within the Church.

Paul has said more than once that human wisdom and God's wisdom cannot coexist. Human wisdom unaided by the Spirit, rejects faith in Christ because the human mind is unable to comprehend spiritual truth (1 Corinthians 2:14).

Stop dividing over which leader or teacher you follow. God had gifted the Corinthians with good teaching from Paul and Apollos and Peter. They are settling for too little by simply declaring themselves to belong to one teacher or the other. Why not receive the ministry of all three men as their own? Aren’t all working for the kingdom?

 

[timothyu]

Where does the family business of Jesus, then headed by brother James, then brother Simon/Jude fit in? Was it not the founding movement? Why divert?

 

[Michie]

Where does the family business of Jesus, then headed by brother James, then brother Simon/Jude fit in? Was it not the founding movement?

I don’t understand your question. Were they his half brothers?

 

[timothyu]

Were they his half brothers?

Half or full is irrelevant. They ran and headed, as a family, the original movement, yet Christianity became built upon a franchise what we would call today appropriation.

 

[Michie]

Half or full is irrelevant. They ran and headed, as a family, the original movement, yet Christianity became built upon a franchise.

Yes as a family. But that does not mean bloodlines. There were also the apostles. They planted and grew Churches.