PETER and PAUL SAME Gospel, SAME Kingdom, SAME Audience

[thereselittleflower]

Much has been made lately in this forum, by a select few, that Peter and Paul preached DIFFERENT Gospels, DIFFERENT kingdoms, and to DIFFERENT audiences.

Yet, the scriptures that contradict these claims have been ignored.

Here are some of the sriptures that demonstrate that Peter and Paul preached the same message and kingdom to both Jews and Genitles alike:



BOTH Peter and Paul preached the SAME Gospel The Gospel of GOD

PAUL

Rom 15:16That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

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PETER

1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

​

BOTH Peter and Paul preached the SAME Kingdom, The Kingdom of CHRIST

PAUL

Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

​

PETER

2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
​

BOTH Peter and Paul were commissioned by GOD, individually, to each go to BOTH the Jews and the GENTILES.

PAUL

Act 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he (PAUL) is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

​

PETER

Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
​

These and othres demonstrate very clearly that there is ONE Gospel, ONE Kingdom, and Peter and Paul preached the same message.



Peace

 

[thereselittleflower]

Dispy, eph seems to not want to tackle this . ..

Would you like to take this on?


Peace

 

[Dispy]

Much has been made lately in this forum, by a select few, that Peter and Paul preached DIFFERENT Gospels, DIFFERENT kingdoms, and to DIFFERENT audiences.

Yet, the scriptures that contradict these claims have been ignored.

Here are some of the sriptures that demonstrate that Peter and Paul preached the same message and kingdom to both Jews and Genitles alike:

BOTH Peter and Paul preached the SAME Gospel The Gospel of GOD

PAUL

Rom 15:16That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

​

​

PETER

1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?​

Yes, Peter and Paul both preached "the gospel of God."

Matt.9:35 "And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom..."

Christ's instructions to Peter and the 11. Matt.10:7 "And as ye go, preach, saying the kiingdom of heaven is at hand."

Yes, Paul preached "the kingdom of God," but it was according to the revelation of the mystery.

Romans 16:25-26 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, but now is made manifest..."

It Peter was preaching the same message as Paul was preaching, the Paul is a Liar. Also, there would have been no need for the "council at Jerusalem" of Acts 15 and Galatians 2.

​

BOTH Peter and Paul preached the SAME Kingdom, The Kingdom of CHRIST

PAUL

Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.​

When one studies the Scriptures in their proper context, one will find that the "kindom of Christ" is both in heaven and the earth.

Members of The Body of Christ will inherit the kingdom of Christ in heaven.

2Cor.5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, and house not made with hands eternal in the heavens.

Philippians 3:20 " For our conversation (citizenship) is in heaven..."

Israel, and all those saved under the preaching of "the gospel of the kingdom" will inherit a kingdom here upon the earth.

Jeremiah 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unnto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and execute, judgement upon the earth."

​

PETER

2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
​

​

BOTH Peter and Paul were commissioned by GOD, individually, to each go to BOTH the Jews and the GENTILES.

PAUL

Act 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he (PAUL) is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

​

PETER

Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
​

These and othres demonstrate very clearly that there is ONE Gospel, ONE Kingdom, and Peter and Paul preached the same message.

Peter and the 11 were commission to preach "the gospel of the kingdom" to all the world. That cannot be denied. the order of that commission can be found in Acts 1:8 "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the utter most parts of the earth."

I find that Peter did go to Cornelius because God instructed him to go.

I find in Acts 11:19 "Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen traveled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to noe but unto the Jews only."

Galatians 2:9 "And when James, Cephas (Peter), and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Banabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go unto the heathen (Gentiles) and they unto the circumcision (Jews)."

Looks to me like the "so called" great commission to the 12 disciples never got off the ground. What happened.

PLEASE tell me, Why did God raise up Saul/Paul to go to the Gentiles, kings and children of Israel; when he had already commissioned 12 disciples to do that.

It appears to me that it would have been more productive to send 12 into the world, and just one to stay with the smaller group of Jews.

Really would like to know your explaination of that.

To be perfectly honest with you thereselittleflower, I do not have any desire to dialogue with you, because of the tone of you posts. Even the mods have had to step in.

I really don't care if you respond to this post or not. I just want to let you know that you don't have us stumped.

 

[thereselittleflower]

Yes, Peter and Paul both preached "the gospel of God."

Matt.9:35 "And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom..."

Christ's instructions to Peter and the 11. Matt.10:7 "And as ye go, preach, saying the kiingdom of heaven is at hand."

Yes, Paul preached "the kingdom of God," but it was according to the revelation of the mystery.

Romans 16:25-26 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, but now is made manifest..."

When did the "now" begin Dipsy? It seems that to make your paradigm work, you have to assume a great many things..

Do you ever bother to go back to the original Greek?

The word :"NOW" carries the sense of TRANSITION .. . it carries the meaning "AS OF LATE"

Nothing mandates it be understood to refer to a point in time from Paul forward.


In fact, scripture mandates we understand that this began with Chirst, in fact, fulfilled with Chirst as He taught in parables! Want to see the verse?

Mat 13:35 so that was fulfilled that spoken through the prophet, saying: "I will open My mouth in parables; I will speak out things hidden from the foundation of the world." Psa. 78:2

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You can't get around this Dispy. The "Now" started with Chirst and the Apostles, not with Paul.


This is the problem with dispenationalism . . The foundations of dispensationalist beliefs are all assumptions. . . assumptions are not very strong foundations for doctrines to be built on.


Now, here is a dilema for you . .

Verse 25 says it was kept secret.

Verse 26 says it is revealed to ALL nations BY SCRIPTURE, THE PROPHETS, and this is Paul speaking so he was referring to OLD Testament scripture . .

The solution to your dilema is that it was all fulfilled in Christ. Christ revealed the hidden things that had been kept secret DURING HIS EARTHLY ministery . .

It Peter was preaching the same message as Paul was preaching, the Paul is a Liar. Also, there would have been no need for the "council at Jerusalem" of Acts 15 and Galatians 2.

Again, based on assumptions you have not proven. How would Peter be a liar?

And of course there would be a need for the council of Jerusalem. Why not?

That the Gentiles were coming into the Church needed to be discussed and understood, and not all believers understood what should be required of them. The Apostles were not confused. There was no hint of confusion among the Apostles. . . But the Church was biger than the Apostles.

This is the way the Church GOVERNED itself and took care of large issues.

The problem were the Judaizers .. they wanted the Gentile believers to follow the Law of Moses, be circumcised, etc.

The Council settled the matter for all the Church what was already settled for the Apostes.

The Apostles didn't lord it over everyone else .. they served.


You have a very mistaken understanding of the purpose of Church Councils.

I have one for you . .


If Peter was under the law and not Grace, then why did Peter eat with the Gentiles and LIVE AS a Gentile?

Both of these actions would have broken the Law you claim he was bound to keep.


Please answer that one for me.

When one studies the Scriptures in their proper context, one will find that the "kindom of Christ" is both in heaven and the earth.

Of course it is . . but not as you would like to claim

The kingdom of Christ is in the CHURCH RIGHT NOW ON EARTH.

RIGHT NOW Jesus is ruling over the Kings of the Earth! RIGHT NOW Dispy.

Members of The Body of Christ will inherit the kingdom of Christ in heaven.

It is ours now.

All who believe in Christ are members of His body. The Jews do not have a different program.

2Cor.5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, and house not made with hands eternal in the heavens.

Yes. But this does nothing to prove your dispensatoinalist claims that there are 2 kingdoms.

Philippians 3:20 " For our conversation (citizenship) is in heaven..."

Yes. But this does nothing to prove your dispensatoinalist claims that there are 2 kingdoms.

Israel, and all those saved under the preaching of "the gospel of the kingdom" will inherit a kingdom here upon the earth.

This is absolutely false Dispy .. there is nothing in all of scripture that supports such a notion. This is simply the teaching you adnere to which is based on assumptions rather than solid fact.

Jeremiah 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unnto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and execute, judgement upon the earth."

Jesus is reigning NOW Dispy, over the kings of the earth.


The bible says so . .

Rev 1:5 even from Jesus Christ the Faithful Witness, the First-born out of the dead, and the Ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him loving us and washing us from our sins by His blood,

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Now here is a an interesting aside . . one of the original apostles speaking of Jesus washing us from our sins by His blood . . I thought that you and eph claimed that the original apostles did not preach the remission of sins by the blood of Christ?

John most certainly did right there!

Scripture after scripture refutes your claims.

And it says UPON .. not in . . UPON . . there is nothing in that verse from Jeremiah that mandates an understanding that Jesus will be physically present and reigning in a physical kingdom, a restored Israel, to execute JUDGEMENT UPON the earth.

Again, you are assuming things to make your belief system work . . but nothing in the scriptures mandates those assumptions.




cont .......

 

[thereselittleflower]

[/indent]PETER

2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.


​

BOTH Peter and Paul were commissioned by GOD, individually, to each go to BOTH the Jews and the GENTILES.

PAUL

Act 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he (PAUL) is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:



​

PETER

Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.


​

These and othres demonstrate very clearly that there is ONE Gospel, ONE Kingdom, and Peter and Paul preached the same message.

Peter and the 11 were commission to preach "the gospel of the kingdom" to all the world. That cannot be denied. the order of that commission can be found in Acts 1:8 "But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the utter most parts of the earth."

I find that Peter did go to Cornelius because God instructed him to go.

You are ignoring the verse I provided about Peter .. read it again above . . .

In it Peter claims that God SPECIFICALLY chose HIM to go to the gentiles. You are ignoring that, trivializing it

I find in Acts 11:19 "Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen traveled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to noe but unto the Jews only."

This is not referring to the Apostles or Peter . . read it again. It refers to those who were scattered abroad . .

You are not even comparing apples with apples.

Galatians 2:9 "And when James, Cephas (Peter), and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Banabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go unto the heathen (Gentiles) and they unto the circumcision (Jews)."

Looks to me like the "so called" great commission to the 12 disciples never got off the ground. What happened.

Peter was commissioned first by God to go to the Gentiles. Tha commission was never retracted. It was not only to Cornelius . . read the verse again . . "that the GENTILES by my mouth" [ Gentiles as Gentiles in general Dispy.

What you are getting confused on here is the difference between commission and ADMINISTRATION of that commission.

The Commission to go to ALL Nations was given to the CHURCH. How the Apostles ADMINISTERED that commission, during their time, is seen in the verse you posted.

There were not two separate commissions . . just one.

And you have no scriptures thta turn Jesus' Great Commission into two commissions.

Jesus gave the Great Commission TO the Apostles and the Church. That has never been revoked.

PLEASE tell me, Why did God raise up Saul/Paul to go to the Gentiles, kings and children of Israel; when he had already commissioned 12 disciples to do that.

PLEASE tell me why did God raise up PAUL to go to the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL if what you claim is true, that God had already made that the EXCLUSIVE commission of the Apostles?

I gave the scripture which tells of of this commission by God to Pau, and asked that it be addressed in the OP. . why are you, as eph has done, ignoring this?

It appears to me that it would have been more productive to send 12 into the world, and just one to stay with the smaller group of Jews.

Really would like to know your explaination of that.

This is such a simplistic view . . it totally ignores that Paul ALWAYS, AS WAS HIS CUSTOM, went to the Jews whereever he went if there were Jews there.

Paul preached the same Gospel as did Peter. Your artificial distinctions are based on assumptions that have no foundation in scriptures.

No scripture you have used to try to back those assumptions up MANDATES the understanding you insist we have to give them . . and then this ignores the clear scriptures I presented about Peter and Paul's commission. .

I am sorry Dispy . . what you have presented above does not substatntiate your claims . . . you have to assume your interpretation is correct.

True Christian faith is not built upon assumptions.

You simply failed to understand how the ONE Church, founded on the Apostles, chose to administer the Great Commission.

You would have us believe that the Church Paul built was different than the Church Peter and the Apostles built.


Yet, Paul's own words testify against this, instead supporting traditional Christian faith and understanding that there is ONE Church only, and that the foundation for this ONE Church was laid by the Apostles . . . very much in contradiction to your claims:

Eph 2:19 So, then, you are no longer strangers and tenants, but you are fellow citizens of the saints and of the family of God,
Eph 2:20 being built up on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the cornerstone,

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You continually tell us that Paul was sent to the Gentiles only. Paul is speaking here to Gentiles, right?

And he claims the foundation of their faith is the Apostles, and the prophets to boot!

Totally contrary to your claims.


Please deal with this scripture as well.

To be perfectly honest with you thereselittleflower, I do not have any desire to dialogue with you, because of the tone of you posts. Even the mods have had to step in.

Umm . . how do you know the mods stepped in because of the tone of my posts? Do you believe that anythng has been sent to me personally? I can assumre you this is a false understanding if you think so.

I am not at liberty to discuss what I do know has actually happened when the mods have had to step in . . . but I believe that your time and energy would be better spent attakcing the issues rather than the person. You may want to review the rules concerning ad hominem attacks.

I really don't care if you respond to this post or not. I just want to let you know that you don't have us stumped.

Well, Dispy, you can claim anything you want . . you are free to do so . .

But claims that cannot be well supported by the facts, and in fact are conradicted by the facts, simply don't cut it. You have not proven that you are not 'stumped' at all.

You have only shown how your belief system is built on assumptions that the scriptures, when looked at more broadly than you would have us do, actually contradict.


It is up to you whether you choose to defend your position and enter a dialogue of intellectual honesty.

No one is twisting your arm.

But as things stand, your claims have been refuted by scripture.



Peace

 

[Dispy]

As I said in my previous post to you, I HAVE NO DESIRE TO DIALOGUE WITH YOU.