Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Why do you put me under the law when you say I sin if I commit a same-sex act w/another human being that I love and am committed to?Do you think Christians are bound by the Law?
When people say "the law"
I think I'd like to see a complete list of everything that is in the law that is applicable under the new covenant, with explanations for which bits are in, and which bits are out
The new testament...where? The only thing addressed in Romans 1 is same sex lust (not attraction or a committed relationship) and 1 Cor 6:9 is the silliest argument yet (See 1 Timothy 1:10 for proof of same word).I dont put you under the law. The Bible is clear on the same sex act- in both testaments.
G
Nobody's asking whether you adhere to all of the laws, especially the ones you don't understand. Surely, however, you understand what "shellfish" "eat" and "don't" mean.
That's clear enough, so the real question is why are you not posting any threads about people coming up with 666 perverted reasons for eating shellfish?
And to be very clear, what I think people are saying is that Leviticus provides almost zero support for your claims that homosexuality is forbidden. You will likely respond that you believe that other portions of the bible support your arguments, but we will be left to wonder then why you so deceptively brought Leviticus up in the first place.
Not a good example of anything. Do you ever read posts or do you just skip/skim posts.I believe it happened that I brought up the Law and someone said Leviticus. Leviticus does make an undeniable statement against sodomy. (or for people who don't understand what sodomy means, against one man lying with another as he lies with a woman)
The reason I choose this topic and not diet is that sexual sin is far more damaging than a poor diet.
I posted the decree of the Jerusalem council not far back. To make it easier for gentiles, idolatry, eating meat sacrificed to idols and sexual immorality were given as things to focus on abstaining from.
Lets live better lives one step and a time! Learn to crawl before walking etc etc..
But the main reason for this topic is the greatly absurd assault on God's Law and Grace that is being posed by proponents of homosexual deeds. Churches are not being divided over shellfish or vanity, gluttony or over-hunting. I am here to examine what appears to be arguments of dark minds.
So again, where is the reasonable argument for the biblical justification of homosexual acts? Someone give one single reasonable account for God blessing same-sex marriage.
I've heard better arguments from ten year olds! Teach me the ways of the serpent!
How is homosexuality a breach of this?love your God, love your neighbor.
Well, its just you seem pretty affronted when we criticise your evil, underpant wearing behaviour, yet at the same time, see nothing wrong with criticising the homosexual behaviour of others...
it seems like you don't expect the bits of the law that you break to be applied to you, just the bits of the law that we break to be applied to us
No he didn't... and anyway, you said the whole of the old law that we still are subject to can be condensed to "love your God, love your neighbor. " same sex relationships arent mentionedGod said not to have same sex relations- it is a sin.
Not really... my original question stands... clearly, there are bits of the law that you don't follow. So why do you think you are entitled to criticise others for not following the law when you don't either?Am I responding to what you mean?
God said that, or did your intepretation of the current commandment say that...or was it someone else that said that?To love God is to obey God. God said not to have same sex relations- it is a sin.
G
Not a good example of anything. Do you ever read posts or do you just skip/skim posts.
Hopefully I read them correctly.
HOMOSEXUALITY IN A LOVING, MONOGAMOUS RELATIONSHIP WAS NOT RECOGNIZED TILL THE 19TH CENTURY. GOOGLE IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME.
I honestly don't care about homosexuality being recognized in any kind of relationship by anyone. It makes no difference to me. It is the act, the lust, the sexual immorality that I consider important to acknowledge for Christian living. We could be talking about any sin and it would be the same. eg: I don't care if the glutton loves his food, gives a lot of it to the poor, shares it with his gay lover or what have you. If he is a Christian glutton, then for the love of God and him I will tell him that gluttony is against the Law of God. And if he keeps on being a glutton I will keep on loving him, but I will never love his gluttony.
ho·mo·sex·u·al·i·ty (hō'mə-sěk'shōō-āl'ĭ-tē, -mō-) Pronunciation Key
n.
1. Sexual orientation to persons of the same sex.
2. Sexual activity with another of the same sex.
Men laying with other men as a man lies with a woman is nothing new.
EVERYONE TAKES HISTORICAL CONTEXT INTO ACCOUNT FOR SLAVERY AND CONDONING OF POLYGAMY IN EXODUS
Not me.
Try talking to the orthodox (not necessarily greek orthodox, I mean simply orthodox).
In another thread we can discuss the laws on slavery or marriage etc. Lets stick to the topic here.
I am sticking to the topic, but don't tell me how I should post, that is for the mods to decide. I can use anologies if I want. We do not follow Leviticus, and if you do follow some things in there, that means you are definitely cherry picking the chapter.Hopefully I read them correctly.
I honestly don't care about homosexuality being recognized in any kind of relationship by anyone. It makes no difference to me. It is the act, the lust, the sexual immorality that I consider important to acknowledge for Christian living. We could be talking about any sin and it would be the same. eg: I don't care if the glutton loves his food, gives a lot of it to the poor, shares it with his gay lover or what have you. If he is a Christian glutton, then for the love of God and him I will tell him that gluttony is against the Law of God. And if he keeps on being a glutton I will keep on loving him, but I will never love his gluttony.
ho·mo·sex·u·al·i·ty (hō'mə-sěk'shōō-āl'ĭ-tē, -mō-) Pronunciation Key
n.
1. Sexual orientation to persons of the same sex.
2. Sexual activity with another of the same sex.
Men laying with other men as a man lies with a woman is nothing new.
Not me.
Try talking to the orthodox (not necessarily greek orthodox, I mean simply orthodox).
In another thread we can discuss the laws on slavery or marriage etc. Lets stick to the topic here.
I am sticking to the topic, but don't tell me how I should post, that is for the mods to decide. I can use anologies if I want. We do not follow Leviticus, and if you do follow some things in there, that means you are definitely cherry picking the chapter.
I can see how you interpreted my words to mean that I thought you were not sticking to the topic. I said "lets stick to the topic" to suggest we don't start talking about slavery or polygamy. I will try to be clearer in the future. You have been on topic as much as I have been.
It is not for me to say if you follow Leviticus or not. Nor is it for you to say if "we" follow Leviticus or not. It is especially not right for you to accuse me of cherry-picking Leviticus because you have no idea what you are talking about, just as you have no idea of how I live my life but for what I have told you.
If it is useful for you, forget the Leviticus topic, it is side-tracking us with confusion over eating oysters (did you know they eat crap and don't crap anything out themselves?). Let us discuss the decree of the Jerusalem council, which told us gentiles that the church fathers did not wish to burden us with all of Levitical Law (and Duet, etc etc etc). They told us to abstain from things such as sexual immorality. Yet this time, instead of me telling you what scriptures define sexual morality, how about you find those scriptures for me which regulate it?
Please tell me which laws cover sexual morality in the bible (all of them or as many as you can find of course).
Let us discuss God's Law which every Christian is specifically commanded to focus on (law regarding sexual morality). I do not want you to be burdened with worry over eating oysters. If you ask me I will tell you to eat them sparingly.
BTW, ever wonder why Jews live longer, make more money (a lot more) on average and no matter how many times our society kicks them down they get right back up on top? They are a sociological anomaly (hint, the Law). Ok.... one more quick comment, trying not to get side-tracked. Ever notice that most allergies are related to non-Kosher food? Ever notice that most preventable illness comes from non-Kosher activities? Some Jew wrote a great book "The Makers Diet"
AS I SAID, the scholars seem to agree that this verse in Leviticus falls under the purity code violations that we do not follow anymore. The Mosaic law is the only thing to be concerned with.I can see how you interpreted my words to mean that I thought you were not sticking to the topic. I said "lets stick to the topic" to suggest we don't start talking about slavery or polygamy. I will try to be clearer in the future. You have been on topic as much as I have been.
It is not for me to say if you follow Leviticus or not. Nor is it for you to say if "we" follow Leviticus or not. It is especially not right for you to accuse me of cherry-picking Leviticus because you have no idea what you are talking about, just as you have no idea of how I live my life but for what I have told you.
If it is useful for you, forget the Leviticus topic, it is side-tracking us with confusion over eating oysters (did you know they eat crap and don't crap anything out themselves?). Let us discuss the decree of the Jerusalem council, which told us gentiles that the church fathers did not wish to burden us with all of Levitical Law (and Duet, etc etc etc). They told us to abstain from things such as sexual immorality. Yet this time, instead of me telling you what scriptures define sexual morality, how about you find those scriptures for me which regulate it?
Please tell me which laws cover sexual morality in the bible (all of them or as many as you can find of course).
Let us discuss God's Law which every Christian is specifically commanded to focus on (law regarding sexual morality). I do not want you to be burdened with worry over eating oysters. If you ask me I will tell you to eat them sparingly.
BTW, ever wonder why Jews live longer, make more money (a lot more) on average and no matter how many times our society kicks them down they get right back up on top? They are a sociological anomaly (hint, the Law). Ok.... one more quick comment, trying not to get side-tracked. Ever notice that most allergies are related to non-Kosher food? Ever notice that most preventable illness comes from non-Kosher activities? Some Jew wrote a great book "The Makers Diet"
AS I SAID, the scholars seem to agree that this verse in Leviticus falls under the purity code violations that we do not follow anymore. The Mosaic law is the only thing to be concerned with.
1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'I am the LORD your God. 3 You must not do as they do in Egypt, where you used to live, and you must not do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you. Do not follow their practices. 4 You must obey my laws and be careful to follow my decrees. I am the LORD your God. 5 Keep my decrees and laws, for the man who obeys them will live by them. I am the LORD.
6 " 'No one is to approach any close relative to have sexual relations. I am the LORD.
7 " 'Do not dishonor your father by having sexual relations with your mother. She is your mother; do not have relations with her.
8 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your father's wife; that would dishonor your father.
9 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your sister, either your father's daughter or your mother's daughter, whether she was born in the same home or elsewhere.
10 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your son's daughter or your daughter's daughter; that would dishonor you.
11 " 'Do not have sexual relations with the daughter of your father's wife, born to your father; she is your sister.
12 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your father's sister; she is your father's close relative.
13 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your mother's sister, because she is your mother's close relative.
14 " 'Do not dishonor your father's brother by approaching his wife to have sexual relations; she is your aunt.
15 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your daughter-in-law. She is your son's wife; do not have relations with her.
16 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your brother's wife; that would dishonor your brother.
17 " 'Do not have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter. Do not have sexual relations with either her son's daughter or her daughter's daughter; they are her close relatives. That is wickedness.
18 " 'Do not take your wife's sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is living.
19 " 'Do not approach a woman to have sexual relations during the uncleanness of her monthly period.
20 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your neighbor's wife and defile yourself with her.
21 " 'Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed [a] to Molech, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the LORD.
22 " 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
23 " 'Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.
24 " 'Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. 25 Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. 26 But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the aliens living among you must not do any of these detestable things, 27 for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled. 28 And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you.
29 " 'Everyone who does any of these detestable thingssuch persons must be cut off from their people. 30 Keep my requirements and do not follow any of the detestable customs that were practiced before you came and do not defile yourselves with them. I am the LORD your God.' "
Leviticus 20
Punishments for Sin
1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Say to the Israelites: 'Any Israelite or any alien living in Israel who gives [a] any of his children to Molech must be put to death. The people of the community are to stone him. 3 I will set my face against that man and I will cut him off from his people; for by giving his children to Molech, he has defiled my sanctuary and profaned my holy name. 4 If the people of the community close their eyes when that man gives one of his children to Molech and they fail to put him to death, 5 I will set my face against that man and his family and will cut off from their people both him and all who follow him in prostituting themselves to Molech.
6 " 'I will set my face against the person who turns to mediums and spiritists to prostitute himself by following them, and I will cut him off from his people.
7 " 'Consecrate yourselves and be holy, because I am the LORD your God. 8 Keep my decrees and follow them. I am the LORD, who makes you holy.
9 " 'If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his own head.
10 " 'If a man commits adultery with another man's wifewith the wife of his neighborboth the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.
11 " 'If a man sleeps with his father's wife, he has dishonored his father. Both the man and the woman must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
12 " 'If a man sleeps with his daughter-in-law, both of them must be put to death. What they have done is a perversion; their blood will be on their own heads.
13 " 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
14 " 'If a man marries both a woman and her mother, it is wicked. Both he and they must be burned in the fire, so that no wickedness will be among you.
15 " 'If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he must be put to death, and you must kill the animal.
16 " 'If a woman approaches an animal to have sexual relations with it, kill both the woman and the animal. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
17 " 'If a man marries his sister, the daughter of either his father or his mother, and they have sexual relations, it is a disgrace. They must be cut off before the eyes of their people. He has dishonored his sister and will be held responsible.
18 " 'If a man lies with a woman during her monthly period and has sexual relations with her, he has exposed the source of her flow, and she has also uncovered it. Both of them must be cut off from their people.
19 " 'Do not have sexual relations with the sister of either your mother or your father, for that would dishonor a close relative; both of you would be held responsible.
20 " 'If a man sleeps with his aunt, he has dishonored his uncle. They will be held responsible; they will die childless.
21 " 'If a man marries his brother's wife, it is an act of impurity; he has dishonored his brother. They will be childless.
22 " 'Keep all my decrees and laws and follow them, so that the land where I am bringing you to live may not vomit you out. 23 You must not live according to the customs of the nations I am going to drive out before you. Because they did all these things, I abhorred them. 24 But I said to you, "You will possess their land; I will give it to you as an inheritance, a land flowing with milk and honey." I am the LORD your God, who has set you apart from the nations.
25 " 'You must therefore make a distinction between clean and unclean animals and between unclean and clean birds. Do not defile yourselves by any animal or bird or anything that moves along the groundthose which I have set apart as unclean for you. 26 You are to be holy to me [c] because I, the LORD, am holy, and I have set you apart from the nations to be my own.
27 " 'A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads.' "
Leviticus 15
Discharges Causing Uncleanness
1 The LORD said to Moses and Aaron, 2 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'When any man has a bodily discharge, the discharge is unclean. 3 Whether it continues flowing from his body or is blocked, it will make him unclean. This is how his discharge will bring about uncleanness:
4 " 'Any bed the man with a discharge lies on will be unclean, and anything he sits on will be unclean. 5 Anyone who touches his bed must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 6 Whoever sits on anything that the man with a discharge sat on must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening.
7 " 'Whoever touches the man who has a discharge must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening.
8 " 'If the man with the discharge spits on someone who is clean, that person must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening.
9 " 'Everything the man sits on when riding will be unclean, 10 and whoever touches any of the things that were under him will be unclean till evening; whoever picks up those things must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening.
11 " 'Anyone the man with a discharge touches without rinsing his hands with water must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening.
12 " 'A clay pot that the man touches must be broken, and any wooden article is to be rinsed with water.
13 " 'When a man is cleansed from his discharge, he is to count off seven days for his ceremonial cleansing; he must wash his clothes and bathe himself with fresh water, and he will be clean. 14 On the eighth day he must take two doves or two young pigeons and come before the LORD to the entrance to the Tent of Meeting and give them to the priest. 15 The priest is to sacrifice them, the one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. In this way he will make atonement before the LORD for the man because of his discharge.
16 " 'When a man has an emission of sperm, he must bathe his whole body with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 17 Any clothing or leather that has sperm on it must be washed with water, and it will be unclean till evening. 18 When a man lies with a woman and there is an emission of sperm, both must bathe with water, and they will be unclean till evening.
19 " 'When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening.
20 " 'Anything she lies on during her period will be unclean, and anything she sits on will be unclean. 21 Whoever touches her bed must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 22 Whoever touches anything she sits on must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 23 Whether it is the bed or anything she was sitting on, when anyone touches it, he will be unclean till evening.
24 " 'If a man lies with her and her monthly flow touches him, he will be unclean for seven days; any bed he lies on will be unclean.
25 " 'When a woman has a discharge of blood for many days at a time other than her monthly period or has a discharge that continues beyond her period, she will be unclean as long as she has the discharge, just as in the days of her period. 26 Any bed she lies on while her discharge continues will be unclean, as is her bed during her monthly period, and anything she sits on will be unclean, as during her period. 27 Whoever touches them will be unclean; he must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening.
28 " 'When she is cleansed from her discharge, she must count off seven days, and after that she will be ceremonially clean. 29 On the eighth day she must take two doves or two young pigeons and bring them to the priest at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. 30 The priest is to sacrifice one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. In this way he will make atonement for her before the LORD for the uncleanness of her discharge.
31 " 'You must keep the Israelites separate from things that make them unclean, so they will not die in their uncleanness for defiling my dwelling place, [a] which is among them.' "
32 These are the regulations for a man with a discharge, for anyone made unclean by an emission of sperm, 33 for a woman in her monthly period, for a man or a woman with a discharge, and for a man who lies with a woman who is ceremonially unclean.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?