Personally pro-life BUT politically pro-choice???

[dignitized]

If you personally feel that abortion is wrong - how can you justify saying it's okay for others? If you have taken the time to come to the conclusion that abortion is wrong - how can you allow others to do what you have concluded is wrong?

 

[Super Gnat]

I am prolife, both personally and politically, because I believe that an unborn person deserves the same protections and rights as a born person. Because abortion murders an unborn person, it should therefore be illegal.

But there are other things that I believe to be wrong but still don't think should be illegal. Things like premarital sex, drinking to excess, and gambling are all things that I personally believe to be wrong (or, in the case of gambling, just plain stupid), and things that I won't personally do. However, since they don't directly harm an uninvolved person, I don't think they should be illegal.

Makes sense?

 

[Mandrake]

Firstly, it's not that I necessarily consider abortion to be wrong in and of itself. If I did, well reer to the above post to see why I still wouldn't legislate against it.

Secondly, in reference to another post in which you mentioned the "Abortion is murder" rhetoric (and in this I'll essentially restate what I said in the other forum): the issue of murder rests upon the personhood of the being killed. Thus it's not murder to swat a fly, but it is to kill my roommate. Since I don't believe that an embryo is a person, I don't believe that abortion is murder, or that it ought to be illegal.

 

[tel0004]

I am prolife, both personally and politically, because I believe that an unborn person deserves the same protections and rights as a born person. Because abortion murders an unborn person, it should therefore be illegal.

But there are other things that I believe to be wrong but still think should be illegal. Things like premarital sex, drinking to excess, and gambling are all things that I personally believe to be wrong (or, in the case of gambling, just plain stupid), and things that I won't personally do. However, since they don't directly harm an uninvolved person, I don't think they should be illegal.

Makes sense?

Perfect sense, they are victimless crimes, the only victim is the one doing it, so no harm, but abortion kills the baby. The only problem with gambling, drugs, and alchol is there is a victim, and its often thier kids, and family, but that is neither here nor there.

 

[dignitized]

since they don't directly harm an uninvolved person, I don't think they should be illegal.

What about the harm directly done to society?

 

[dignitized]

Can we actually deal with the OP? Is that too much to ask??

 

[ebia]

If you personally feel that abortion is wrong - how can you justify saying it's okay for others? If you have taken the time to come to the conclusion that abortion is wrong - how can you allow others to do what you have concluded is wrong?

Because I recognise that I believe it is wrong - that I don't know (cannot know) for certain.

So it's fair enough for me to express my views to others, but not to impose them on them.

 

[Gwenyfur]

Personally I believe abortion to be murder. G-d knows us from before we were in our mother's wombs...

I find it amazing that everyone who is pro-choice...ironically has *already* been born and not aborted...

 

[ebia]

Personally I believe abortion to be murder. G-d knows us from before we were in our mother's wombs...

If this is an argument against abortion I don't understand why it isn't an argument against avoiding conception.

I find it amazing that everyone who is pro-choice...ironically has *already* been born and not aborted...

How many aborted people have you asked?

 

[Gwenyfur]

If this is an argument against abortion I don't understand why it isn't an argument against avoiding conception.


How many aborted people have you asked?

What??? You'd rather have a girl commit murder than pay child support like a responsible man?

 

[ebia]

What??? You'd rather have a girl commit murder than pay child support like a responsible man?

What? I have absolutely no idea how you constructed that out of what I said.

 

[Harlan Norris]

If you personally feel that abortion is wrong - how can you justify saying it's okay for others? If you have taken the time to come to the conclusion that abortion is wrong - how can you allow others to do what you have concluded is wrong?

This life is a constant trial. Can a man be forced to accept Jesus Christ as his savior ? Trulely ? The followers of Islam convert with the sword.We are Christian,and this is not our method.Changes of behavior have to be proceeded by a change of heart to be authentic.Politics are evil. An evil tree cannot bear good fruit.If we desire to change this behavior in others,they must be convinced that there is more to this life than meets the eye.Once one believes there is a God,and that God is in control.If that one is wise they will seek to do Gods will,and the issue of abortion will be clear in their mind.Change comes from the inside out in people,not the outside in.We can pass legislation that prohibits abortion.This will not stop abortion. So, it's not that I think abortion is ok for others.It's just that I know that I can't force another to believe it is wrong.I have argued against abortion in this forum,many times.I've never argued for legislation though,because no souls are saved through legislation.No hearts are changed.

 

[Super Gnat]

Perfect sense, they are victimless crimes, the only victim is the one doing it, so no harm, but abortion kills the baby. The only problem with gambling, drugs, and alchol is there is a victim, and its often thier kids, and family, but that is neither here nor there.

Yeah, definitely. I don't mean to say that they're victimless crimes. But when you get into indirect harm, it's a slippery slope. I mean, parents having really bitter arguments with each other makes their child a victim, but you can't really outlaw bitter arguments.

What about the harm directly done to society?

Well, IANALegal analyst or anything, so I don't know how harm to society is measured. I mean, our government and laws are secular, so you can't outlaw something like premarital sex just because God said it's wrong. When making laws in the US, you have to go by different standards. I don't mean AT ALL to suggest that things like premarital sex are right to do, just that they shouldn't necessarily be illegal.

 

[dignitized]

Because I recognise that I believe it is wrong - that I don't know (cannot know) for certain.

So it's fair enough for me to express my views to others, but not to impose them on them.

You can't know for certain that it is wrong? why?

Are you willing to impose your views on pedophelia on others? Some people believe it's acceptable and quite natural . . . .

 

[dignitized]

If this is an argument against abortion I don't understand why it isn't an argument against avoiding conception.

Because there is a difference between prevention and termination. Besides - If God wants you to have a child just because you take preventative measures does not mean that you will automatically prevent conception. Many of the women in my family have conceived while taking precautions. The most effective form of birth control is abstinence and even that is not 100% effective.

How many aborted people have you asked?

have you read the reveltion of John?

 

[intricatic]

What about the harm directly done to society?

What is society?

To the OP:

Abortion after a certain point I find to be obscene, politically. However, early stage abortion [within the first few months] I may completely disagree with on a personal level, but I understand that people have underlying reasons that complicate the situation, that I cannot dirrectly understand simply by looking at the things involved.

On any account, I find legislating what a person can, or can not do to their own body to be obscene in every way. Regardless of how I personally feel about any given topic.

 

[intricatic]

The most effective form of birth control is abstinence and even that is not 100%

You win the most ironic post of the year award.

 

[Mirelys]

Your mission: Find a verse in the Bible that says directly and specifically that life begins at conception. Ready? Go!

 

[Mirelys]

Here is an interesting verse: "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she miscarries but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life..."
Exodus 21:22,23

A violence-induced miscarriage does not have the same penalty as murder. Why?

 

[dignitized]

This life is a constant trial. Can a man be forced to accept Jesus Christ as his savior ? Trulely ? The followers of Islam convert with the sword.We are Christian,and this is not our method.Changes of behavior have to be proceeded by a change of heart to be authentic.Politics are evil. An evil tree cannot bear good fruit.If we desire to change this behavior in others,they must be convinced that there is more to this life than meets the eye.Once one believes there is a God,and that God is in control.If that one is wise they will seek to do Gods will,and the issue of abortion will be clear in their mind.Change comes from the inside out in people,not the outside in.We can pass legislation that prohibits abortion.This will not stop abortion. So, it's not that I think abortion is ok for others.It's just that I know that I can't force another to believe it is wrong.I have argued against abortion in this forum,many times.I've never argued for legislation though,because no souls are saved through legislation.No hearts are changed.

[/QUOTE] It's not a question of belief - it's a question of permitting or not permitting an act. DO we allow people to murder because they do not believe it to be wrong? Do we also allow people to abuse children physically/sexually/mentally because others might not see it as wrong to beat a child into a coma? Do not confuse allowing belief with allowing action. Abortion is not a thought - it is an act.