Personal responsibility and school lunches

hislegacy

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And the cure for lack of righteousness is coercion?

Absolutely not: the 'cure' for lack of Righteousness is a living relationship with Jesus Christ. Drawing in closer to Him daily. That bring a hunger and thirst for Righteousness.

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
 
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Fantine

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When you only carry the insurance you can afford and there is a $6,000 deductible you are not getting the preventive care and tests you need because you can barely afford the insurance.

I have Medicare and a supplement, too. In my last year of employer sponsored insurance, it cost twice as much and covered much less.

The big losers in our patchwork health system are the people. The big winners are the insurance companies.

National health care won't cost us more. We will just pay it differently and eliminate the middleman.

I don't care if it raises taxes if it eliminates other costs.
 
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hislegacy

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When you only carry the insurance you can afford and there is a $6,000 deductible you are not getting the preventive care and tests you need because you can barely afford the insurance.

I have Medicare and a supplement, too. In my last year of employer sponsored insurance, it cost twice as much and covered much less.

The big losers in our patchwork health system are the people. The big winners are the insurance companies.

National health care won't cost us more. We will just pay it differently and eliminate the middleman.

I don't care if it raises taxes if it eliminates other costs.

Not everyone, perhaps not even a majority, agree with that POV.

Med Share is growing in popularity.

Medi-Share® - Your Solution for Big Savings on Healthcare Costs

Anything would be better than allowing the Federal government take control, especially with someone like Harris in power.
 
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Fantine

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And you can't coerce people into having a living relationship with God (in whatever faith tradition they know.)

Those who have a living relationship with God will attract them by their authentic goodness and compassion.

By their works--not their lectures.

Jesus converted thousands but I never read about the pharisees or sadducees converting a soul.

When people encounter God, it will transform their relationships. They will understand unconditional love.

Their relationships will grow organically out of their faith. You can't force it.
 
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RDKirk

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I am unaware of anyplace in the US where healthy food is hours of travel away.
]

How can you think "I am unaware" somehow indicates that something does not exist? Any given individual is unaware of 99%+ available knowledge.

Here is the government's national map of "food deserts." In areas without efficient public transportation (Dallas and Bloomington, IL, I'm squinting at you) or high crime rates (Anacostia, DC, I'm squinting at you), even a mile or two can be effectively out of reach.

USDA ERS - Go to the Atlas

I am also unaware of any apartments without a kitchen that is serviceable except perhaps in government run housing. If you have examples of these things I would be happy to be made aware of them.

"Serviceable" might be defined as much as a hotplate and a sink, but I said "efficient." Cooking a meal from scratch in a tiny kitchen with little storage space, little counter space, an "efficiency" oven and cooktop, an "apartment" refrigerator...is a major challenge. Especially after picking up famished kids from the day care center after a long day at work and a long commute on the bus. It's enormously easier to stop at Mc Donalds.

Healthy food is for the most part cheaper lb. for lb. than junk food. Food deserts do exist in that fresh fruits and vegetables are not available within a certain distance but in my experience not hours away from some neighborhoods . I suspect that this is true as a matter of lack of demand rather than purposeful constriction of supply.

Nobody said anything about "purposeful constriction of supply." It's all about the Benjamins.

Healthy food, calorie for calorie is certainly not cheaper than junk food. "Pound for pound" doesn't have any relevant meaning when comparing the two.

A parent can buy a head of cabbage, but she have a way to buy food in bulk and get it on the bus to her apartment? Does she have refrigerator space to keep it?
 
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RDKirk

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If you ignore the power of hormones, sure.

Which Jesus and Paul did not do. Both acknowledged that people are born to procreate, and only a few are able to live without "burning with desire."
 
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RDKirk

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I guess that we disagree with the basic definition of insurance. I pay my medical insurance once a month. Is that expected to cover all my costs? If so, then it isn't "insurance" at all. It is a method to pay for medical costs.

The problem there is that "insurance" has always been a bad model and bad definition of what is really "a method to pay for medical costs." It simply doesn't fit the same scenario as conventional insurance against risk.
 
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RDKirk

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When you only carry the insurance you can afford and there is a $6,000 deductible you are not getting the preventive care and tests you need because you can barely afford the insurance.

I have Medicare and a supplement, too. In my last year of employer sponsored insurance, it cost twice as much and covered much less.

The big losers in our patchwork health system are the people. The big winners are the insurance companies.

National health care won't cost us more. We will just pay it differently and eliminate the middleman.

I don't care if it raises taxes if it eliminates other costs.

Ah, but in our current system, that "middleman," the huge medical billing industry, has deep lobby pockets. There are billions of dollars being made annually by companies that do nothing but move the bills sideways between each other. They won't accept going out of business (having to find an actually productive role) without a fierce fight.
 
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mark46

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The problem there is that "insurance" has always been a bad model and bad definition of what is really "a method to pay for medical costs." It simply doesn't fit the same scenario as conventional insurance against risk.

This model is becoming more common. People use insurance as a way to pay for repairs for their old vehicles, and old appliances.

And, I do believe that there are many (primarily young professionals) who use high deductible insurance in the same way as automobile insurance, only expecting the insurance to pay if there is a major issue, likely one involving hospitalization. A relatively healthy person may find it reasonable to pay anything under $6000 from their normal budgets. The unwarranted implication is that these folks will not go to the doctor when sick, or spend money for prevention.
 
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RDKirk

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This model is becoming more common. People use insurance as a way to pay for repairs for their old vehicles, and old appliances.

And, I do believe that there are many (primarily young professionals) who use high deductible insurance in the same way as automobile insurance, only expecting the insurance to pay if there is a major issue, likely one involving hospitalization. A relatively healthy person may find it reasonable to pay anything under $6000 from their normal budgets. The unwarranted implication is that these folks will not go to the doctor when sick, or spend money for prevention.

And they skip regular medical maintenance...which is becoming more and more of a problem with younger and younger people falling to problems like diabetes.
 
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mark46

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When you only carry the insurance you can afford and there is a $6,000 deductible you are not getting the preventive care and tests you need because you can barely afford the insurance.

I have Medicare and a supplement, too. In my last year of employer sponsored insurance, it cost twice as much and covered much less.

The big losers in our patchwork health system are the people. The big winners are the insurance companies.

I don't care if it raises taxes if it eliminates other costs.

I read your post a few times. The statement on "national health care" seems out of place, and not related to your primary arguments. BTW, I don't think that a National Health Service would be cheaper. The middleman won't be the insurance company; it will be government paperwork inefficeincy. But no matter, this won't happen.

I AGREE WITH YOUR OTHER ARGUMENTS
1) A $6,000 deductible policy should in no way prevent folks from getting necessary preventive care, tests, and immediate treatment.
2) I cannot speak for your employer. Medicare works. I would note that we have paying in for our entire working lives. There is an issue of size. It is not all clear that Medicare could work for everyone, even if the government could find a way for everyone to buy in. Medicare needs improvements. There are costs that should be covered, and there is a lack of competition in prices for their drug purchases.

3) You say that the people are the losers and the insurance companies are the winners, and the government is the solution. I'm not buying.

HOWEVER, I do agree that we need improvements to the Romneycare system that we have. We need much higher subsidies, especially for those who live in states that refuse to expand Medicaid. MORE money should be spent by the feds of healthcare. That being said, there are lots of ways that costs can be reduced without ending company-paid insurance. Many of these changes have been proposed for many years by bi-partisan groups in the Senate. However, Republicans still aren't willing to accept Romneycare/Obamacare. It has been saved 4 times: once by a Republican Congress who refused to come up with a replacement system, second by the Roberts led Supreme Court, third by McCain, and recently by the current court. Democrats can slip minor changes into other bills and into various reconciliation bills.

4) I agree that our taxes are much too low at all levels. Our government is also much too inefficient at all levels.

I don't think that the progressive answer of spending $10T of federal money is the right approach. Much more need to be done by the states, local partnerships with business and through the market.
Democrats have a year or so to make generational changes. They need to FOCUS. The first, second, third and fourth priorities need to be on pass something like the Manchin revisions. The idea of not spending $1T on bridges and roads is too small is just plain silly. It would be the largest infrastructure bill in many decades. POUTING that they will hold this up if they can't have their $6B at the same time is posturing that simply won't work.

Republicans have staked out their positions.
Manchin and the conservative Democrats have staked out their positions.
Progressives have staked out their positions.

REALITY CHECK
It takes 50 votes to pass anything.

PREDICTION
If the progressives succeed in forcing Schumer to link the so-called infrastructure bills, the huge recon bill will lose in the Senate for lack of 50 votes. The infrastructure bill won't come close to 60 votes.

AFTER THIS, Biden will then be forced to beg Manchin to vote for a filibuster exception to the voting rights bill. I think that he will succeed, after many apologies for failure of the infrastructure bill.

BIDEN'S plea for a revised recon infrastructure bill will be heard and rejected.
 
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mark46

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And they skip regular medical maintenance...which is becoming more and more of a problem with younger and younger people falling to problems like diabetes.

Is the solution really to force all policies to include free preventive care? I suspect that this is a false issue. I suspect that many young folk are covered now, and still don't bother with regular medical maintenance.
 
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RDKirk

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Is the solution really to force all policies to include free preventive care? I suspect that this is a false issue. I suspect that many young folk are covered now, and still don't bother with regular medical maintenance.

Young males may not, but young women will.

Edit: If medical insurance operated on the true "insurance" model, it would cover free preventive care, just as true insurance policies will provide discounts for preventative measures that will avoid policy pay-outs.
 
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ArmenianJohn

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After mulling it over, I have to say I think schools should serve healthy foods even if it's not appealing to the children. As someone said in the other thread, if they're hungry, they'll eat it. It shouldn't be school's responsibility to make sure someone's children reaches their caloric needs for the day. And, yes, it's sad that children of single parents working two jobs might go without, but that's not the school's fault. If anything, I think the idea that school/society will take care of the kids only facilitates bad behavior. Not that having consequences will eliminate single parenthood entirely but maybe it will give more people pause not wanting to bring children into the world when they can't provide for them themselves. Or, as the child, using that experience and not wanting the same life for their own children.

*Edit: Or, if it is the school's responsibility to feed kids, go all in. Send a note to parents that the kid's caloric needs are met for the day and, aside from a granola bar or two (heck, even send the kids home with those), don't need any additional food from home. That saves the parent's time and feeds the kids. That said, all kids grow differently, so I don't think having the school in charge is a good idea. But, hey, someone has to take some responsibility somewhere. Whether it's the parents or the school I guess at the end of the day I don't really care.
What confuses me most about your perspective is that you seem to think that healthy food is automatically completely unappealing to kids and that that's why schools don't or wouldn't serve it. The reality is that schools just can't or don't want to pay for healthy food when it's much cheaper to provide carb-laden garbage that kids "lilke". It's the same cost-saving (i.e.CHEAP) policies that put schools in the position to feed children to begin.

Kids will eat healthy foods, but schools (i.e. society) would rather save a few bucks than feed them healthy foods. Then kids become carb-addicted and used to the taste of bad food, they get malnourished and grow up to have health problems and continue the cycle.

Just like the rest of the health care system, there are too many people making big money by cheating kids our of health and then also cheating adults out of health so it all continues at the expense of people's very lives. In our society it has been decided that it's OK to make money off of people dying as long as you can hide and obfuscate it enough to fool most people into thinking you're not doing that.
 
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ArmenianJohn

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Is it fair to consider - in a nation - all children all of our responsibility? All people all of our responsibility?

(I wonder where that conversation leads haha).
Someone in the Bible also once asked God, "Am I my brother's keeper?" God answered in His Word on this... "Love your neighbor" and "Love your enemies".
 
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ArmenianJohn

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Is the solution really to force all policies to include free preventive care? I suspect that this is a false issue. I suspect that many young folk are covered now, and still don't bother with regular medical maintenance.
Young folk - minors - are under their parents' direction for medical maintenance. If the parents are in the situation of having limited money and limited ability to pay for such maintenance and/or the resulting care necessary due to being inadequately insured then kids will unfortunately suffer because the parents can't afford to not let them suffer.

This is why medicare-for-all is such a critical issue. The lack of adequate healthcare directly adversely affects almost all the other problems our society faces.
 
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Confused-by-christianity

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Someone in the Bible also once asked God, "Am I my brother's keeper?" God answered in His Word on this... "Love your neighbor" and "Love your enemies".
Yeah I think so too.

To a point.

If you pay everyone's way then you don't create much incentive for people to make something of themselves from a personal dignity standpoint. But generally speaking - I think we should all care for the wellbeing of all.
 
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ArmenianJohn

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Yeah I think so too.

To a point.

If you pay everyone's way then you don't create much incentive for people to make something of themselves from a personal dignity standpoint. But generally speaking - I think we should all care for the wellbeing of all.
The concept that incentive is "created" is a myth. People have incentive to live and enjoy life without needing it "created" for them. What needs to be created for them is an environment that removes obstacles. Our societies don't remove enough obstacles for too many people and we sadly see a movement of people wanting to shout "NO!" when it comes to continuing to help the people who need it the most. As Christians, we know we owe it to others to help them. For non-Christians, it is still good policy because they have a selfish reason to help others in that they will live in a better world with less problems.

The problem is that a few petulant and bitter folks perceive that they can save a few dollars in the short term by choosing to neglect social responsibility. Such people lack any long-term vision; they either can't or refuse to see the negative long-term impact of being selfish today.
 
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