perservation of Scripture

[rmwilliamsll]

VIII. The Old Testament in Hebrew (which was the native language of the people of God of old), and the New Testament in Greek (which, at the time of the writing of it, was most generally known to the nations), being immediately inspired by God, and, by His singular care and providence, kept pure in all ages, are therefore authentical;[17] so as, in all controversies of religion, the Church is finally to appeal unto them.[18] But, because these original tongues are not known to all the people of God, who have right unto, and interest in the Scriptures, and are commanded, in the fear of God, to read and search them,[19] therefore they are to be translated in to the vulgar language of every nation unto which they come,[20] that, the Word of God dwelling plentifully in all, they may worship Him in an acceptable manner;[21] and, through patience and comfort of the Scriptures, may have hope.[22]

WCF Chapter 1 --On Scripture--

has anyone looked closely at:
by His singular care and providence, kept pure in all ages

?

this seems to overstate the case for textual criticism.
but i need to understand better what the WCF means by this.

...

 

[frumanchu]

I'd have to dig out my Sproul WCF tape series to check on that one...don't remember right off.

BTW, I LOVE the term "PRATTLED!" I won't plagiarize it here, but I'm gonna start using it in another forum

 

[ClementofRome]

WCF Chapter 1 --On Scripture--

has anyone looked closely at:
by His singular care and providence, kept pure in all ages

?

this seems to overstate the case for textual criticism.
but i need to understand better what the WCF means by this.

...

rm
Could you be more clear on what you mean by "overstate the case for textual criticism"? This will make a great discussion, but I need some clarification from you.
Thanks

 

[rmwilliamsll]

rm
Could you be more clear on what you mean by "overstate the case for textual criticism"? This will make a great discussion, but I need some clarification from you.
Thanks

i'm curious about the doctrine of the perservation of the text.
1-original autographs inspired
2-WCF states 'kept pure in all ages'
3-this is an issue in textual criticism that God providential preserved these not just sufficiently but pure

the trouble is that the WCF was only aware of a fraction of the dispersion of the text. I look at textual criticism now and don't see 'pure' but rather see 'sufficiently clear' or 'suitable'.

there seems to be 3 important 'choke points' with regard to inspiration and authority of Scripture. Inspiration of the original text, the formation of the canon, and the preservation of the text. It seems like, in the light of subsequent textual criticism, that the WCF overstates the condition of our current knowledge of the 'purity' of the texts. Simply put, too much discrepency among the traditions and witness to describe what we have as 'providential pure'.

....

 

[frumanchu]

My understanding is that God, by His providence, has made certain that the original 'pure' text has been available through all ages. I take this to mean that amongst the texts we have available to us there exists the totality of the entire content of the original autographs. In other words, none of the original words from the authors has been lost (though there may not be any whole copies containing 100% accurate replication).

Textual criticism is not something I spend a great deal of time on (unless I'm debating a KJVOnlyist, which is rare).

 

[ClementofRome]

Simply put, too much discrepency among the traditions and witness to describe what we have as 'providential pure'.

....

Agreed. At the risk of being banished from the Reformed Board, the Westminster divines were a product of their worldview and thusly, were simply wrong in this instance.

I don't have a problem with the idea of purity in the original autographs (though that is a matter of assumption and faith as well), but to suggest that the underlying texts in use (Hebrew/Greek) remain providentially pure throughout the ages, is an assumption that these folks had, that we can not say was correct.

I am a firm believer that God has providentially afforded us all we need to know for faith and practice in infallible form...but I am afraid that our good divines took this a tad far. Maybe textual criticism is that means by which God providentially affords us a chance to get close!

 

[ClementofRome]

My understanding is that God, by His providence, has made certain that the original 'pure' text has been available through all ages. I take this to mean that amongst the texts we have available to us there exists the totality of the entire content of the original autographs. In other words, none of the original words from the authors has been lost (though there may not be any whole copies containing 100% accurate replication).

Textual criticism is not something I spend a great deal of time on (unless I'm debating a KJVOnlyist, which is rare).

Very intersting interpretation. Thanks....and happy b-day!

 

[CoffeeSwirls]

At the risk of being banished from the Reformed Board...

Oh, I don't think you'll get thrown out for placing the importance of God-inspired text over the importance of Human-collected doctrine. There are language changes from culture to culture and generation to generation that make any human writings subject to correction by the Bible. The scriptures define the church. The church does not define the scriptures.

 

[larryjf]

My understanding is that God, by His providence, has made certain that the original 'pure' text has been available through all ages.

I also believe that God has preserved His word perfectly throughout the ages.

However, sometimes people get the wrong idea that this means we have a "perfect" bible today.
That fact that God has preserved it perfectly does not necessitate that we can extract it perfectly.

 

[reformedfan]

the book by A.A. Hodge is excellent on the subject. It's called, ummm, oh yeah. "The Westminster Confession of Faith"

 

[rmwilliamsll]

the book by A.A. Hodge is excellent on the subject. It's called, ummm, oh yeah. "The Westminster Confession of Faith"

http://www.rtrc.net/documents/wcf/hodge/wcftoc.htm

 

[reformedfan]

GI Williamson "The Westminster Confession" also is great, ez reading.