Persecution of Copts

[Anglian]

Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

On the Ministry/Christian persecution part of this forum one poster says this:

Originally Posted by TheDag
Yep persecution is so blatent that Christians have been ablre to hold massive evangelism rallies in stadiums in Egypt and even have muslims give their full support to it. Sounds like nothing but persecution for christians in egypt! I'm not for a second saying it doesn't happen in Egypt. Yes christians are persecuted however it depends on exactly where you are. In some areas you can will have bars and can drink all the alcohol you like while in other areas you can't. We need to open our eyes and stop being so biased by insisting persecution is bad when it happens to us but ok if it happens to other people. We also need to stop being biased by trying to present a situation to be something it isn't. For example giving the impression that there is nothing but persecution for christians in some countries where they can actually have tremendous freedom in some areas.

Once I recovered from my anger at this ignorance of conditions for the Coptic Church, I responded giving 'The Dag' some information about some of the problems Copts face on a daily basis.

I had not imagined that Christians were so ignorant of what conditions can be like for the Copts. The 'rallies' he mentions are, I assume, those of Western denominations (doesn't sound very Coptic to me, at any rate).

Could, or would, any of our Coptic brothers and sisters comment on their views of this?

In Christ,

Anglian

 

[copticorthodoxy]

i am there

 

[Anglian]

My dear Brother in Christ,

Your testimony is a powerful one.

The Copts are indeed walking in the way of the Suffering Servant. Their example is one which we should all admire - and for those of us who are part of the family, it is yet another reason why we love the Copts so much. We, in the British Orthodox Church, are indeed blessed to have so close a connection with the great and historic See of St. Mark.

May the Risen Lord continue to watch over His Church.

Peace,

Anglian

 

[Anglian]

Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

On another part of this Forum:

http://christianforums.com/t7113901-dhimmitude-not-what-they-say-it-is.html#post45710459
we find an Egyptian Muslim saying that all reports of violence against Copts are 'fabrications'; perhaps it might be an idea to educate him?

In peace,

Anglian

 

[Historynut]

I had been told by a Coptic person I know that the Egyptian government does indeed encourage christian missionary work in Egypt. So long is it is protestant workers targeting Copts as a method of undermining the Church there. Is there any truth to this?

 

[Anglian]

I had been told by a Coptic person I know that the Egyptian government does indeed encourage christian missionary work in Egypt. So long is it is protestant workers targeting Copts as a method of undermining the Church there. Is there any truth to this?

Yes, it is. This is one reason that some western Christians think there is no persecution against Christianity in Egypt. Anyone converting from Islam to Christianity is in real trouble.

In peace,

Anglian

 

[Historynut]

Yes, it is. This is one reason that some western Christians think there is no persecution against Christianity in Egypt. Anyone converting from Islam to Christianity is in real trouble.

In peace,

Anglian

Well that is sad I hope the Coptic Church has had more luck in dealing with the Protestants than some parts of Eastern Europe have.

 

[lionroar0]

Yes, it is. This is one reason that some western Christians think there is no persecution against Christianity in Egypt. Anyone converting from Islam to Christianity is in real trouble.

"unbelivable". Not as I don't belive it.

More of a flabbergasted and speechles.(unbelivable.) at the ignorance.
That they don't think there is persecution.

Peace

 

[Anglian]

Dear Lionroar,

The inability to admit to the reality of what is done to the Copts by some Muslims reflects the usual inability of persecutors to acknowledge their own sinfulness; in that lies a hope of redemption. If they were so steeped in sin that they rejoiced in what they were doing, then one's sadness for them would be greater.

All are sinners, all fall short. All can repent and come to Christ. Of course, doing that in Egypt if you are a Muslim carries real danger. If Islam had more self-confidence it would not behave in such a manner.

In Christ,

Anglian

 

[Globalnomad]

On another note, I was struck by one passage in the latest declaration of Ayman El Zawahiri. It is a longish document in which he holds a question-and-answer session. On of the questions is about the Copts in Egypt - whether he sees them as a menace to Islam and what should be done about them. I had the shivers even before beginning to read his answer.... but I was surprised. He dismissed the question very briefly, answering that he does not think the Copts represent a danger.

I'm afraid I know why he is so unworried about Copts. I'm afraid he thinks they are finished anyway, albeit slowly. They tend to have fewer children than Muslims; the educated ones tend to emigrate; and those who are left... well, as you say, they are prey to the Protestant evangelisers - and above all, prey to the mixing of the young that takes place nowadays in high schools and universities. More and more young Copts are falling in love with Muslims, and you know what happens then, by law. If the girl is Muslim, the boy has to convert. If the boy is Muslim, the kids will be Muslim. That's it.

I already knew this problem well, but the fact that Al-Zawahiri is so complacent about Copts in Egypt really makes me despair.

 

[MariaRegina]

Lord have mercy.

 

[skoi]

Not related to Copts and Protestant evangelism, but to Ethiopian Orthodox and Protestantism:
We were considering adopting from Ethiopia, and on the email loops and boards were many Evangelicals adopting children. They were very concerned about keeping the children's culture, but when I asked what their plans were for helping them to keep their Orthodoxy, I would get either hostile replies, or none at all. They talked a lot about making sure the children learned about Jesus, and getting them saved, never listening to my arguments that some of them at least were already Christian. Like some of the missionaries who went to Russia and Eastern Europe, they didn't really consider the Orthodox to be Christian.

I didn't know about the rallies in Egypt, but I can see that the government would look the other way if it undermined the Copts. Then, they can accuse the Christians of being foreign agents and use it against them. They can't do that with the Copts. We can pray that any people who "accept Christ" at these rallies who weren't formerly Christian will learn about the Coptic Church and find a home there.
​

 

[davidlazarus]

Not related to Copts and Protestant evangelism, but to Ethiopian Orthodox and Protestantism:​

We were considering adopting from Ethiopia, and on the email loops and boards were many Evangelicals adopting children. They were very concerned about keeping the children's culture, but when I asked what their plans were for helping them to keep their Orthodoxy, I would get either hostile replies, or none at all.

Many Protestants, especially the Evangelicals, are far from "Christian", at least as compared to how the faith was originally heard. They often reject the sacraments and priesthood as nothing more than symbolic gestures or works of men.​

Most also percieve any Church that follows the apostolic teachings and traditions to be Roman Catholic, which for the most part, Protestantism as a corporate body rejects.​

They talked a lot about making sure the children learned about Jesus, and getting them saved, never listening to my arguments that some of them at least were already Christian. Like some of the missionaries who went to Russia and Eastern Europe, they didn't really consider the Orthodox to be Christian.

By their perception of Christianity we aren't. Many of their teachings directly conflict with the original faith and so by our adherrance to the original beliefs we oppose them and in a sense are seen as competitors in the game of how many souls they can claim in the name of Christ.

I didn't know about the rallies in Egypt, but I can see that the government would look the other way if it undermined the Copts. Then, they can accuse the Christians of being foreign agents and use it against them. They can't do that with the Copts. We can pray that any people who "accept Christ" at these rallies who weren't formerly Christian will learn about the Coptic Church and find a home there.

Perhaps the spirit behind those that persecute the Copts do not find the Protestants an immediate threat and maybe even an aid because as these groups gather to themselves people, they in effect keep them from ever receiving the sacraments or receiving the faith as it was heard in the beginning.

I will add that I was once a Pentecostal Protestant, I gathered to it, I taught others many false doctrines and even performed counterfiet baptisms, so I am not saying this from any form of judgement against them as I have been just as guilty as any of them. And like them, at that time I was convinced I was doing the right thing.

Peace and Love to you

David Lazarus



​

 

[skoi]

David Lazarus:

I agree with all you have posted. We were briefly evangelical (Calvary Chapel) and I've experienced the horror of many former acquaintances when they learn we attend a liturgical church with sacraments.

We're considering adopting a child from Ethiopia, though we have 4 already. Until we became Orthodox, we had no idea of the depth that religion becomes entwined with culture and everyday life on a far deeper level than just saying prayers and reading your Bible. That's what the evangelicals who are adopting the Ethiopian Orthodox children don't understand.
​

 

[lionroar0]

Perhaps the spirit behind those that persecute the Copts do not find the Protestants an immediate threat and maybe even an aid because as these groups gather to themselves people, they in effect keep them from ever receiving the sacraments or receiving the faith as it was heard in the beginning.

If I may add my opinion.

Protestanism is intrinsicly (sp?) divisive. It works against it self. This may also be a reason why they are not seen as a threat.

Peace

 

[MariaRegina]

If I may add my opinion.

Protestanism is intrinsicly (sp?) divisive. It works against it self. This may also be a reason why they are not seen as a threat.

Peace

Exactly. Protestantism is intrinsically divisive because each denomination considers itself correct. Although they frown at the idea of an infallible papacy (Roman Catholicism) or an infallible Church (Orthodox Christianity), many believe that they can individually interpret the Holy Scriptures and decide what is right or wrong (individual infallibility). If they disagree with their pastor, they start their own new church. It is sad how they portray the One Holy Catholic Church as heretics and accuse us of brainwashing.

Lord have mercy and save us.

NOTE: I have started a new thread on infallibility in order to prevent this current thread from being derailed. It is found at The infallibility thread



Yes, it is sad how the Muslims are using the Protestants to create division among the Copts.

Lord have mercy on them and save them.

 

[AllForJesus]

It is sad really sad how we mourn and how we lack faith!

God is there! God sees everything!


Pray... Protection comes form the Lord and His power is shown in the hard times...
The God that saved us form the power of the devil will save us from every muslim persecution and from the passive persecution of the modern civilisation...