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Mary will have a son in the future.
She asks, How will I have a child in the future, I am a virgin presently.
Your barren cousin became pregnant; nothing is impossible with God.
The duration of the condition/action described by the present tense verb is governed by the context.
Gabriel announces a future conception ("shall").
Mary is betrothed, which is typically followed by marriage.
Mary responds by asking how this future conception (shall) can take place as she does "know not man". Thus, the duration of the condition "know not man" is governed by "shall/future" which includes all of the future if not limited by context (including statement). There is no limit provided by context.
Thus, per Hellenistic grammar the duration of "know not man" is continuous.
The "active" in present active indicative denotes that this is decided and acted on by Mary (she is the actor). This is her decision.
Okay. But she is betrothed. She planned to get married. She knew about that blood covenant.
It seems that Matt 1:25 and Luke 1:34 are the verses most used in this discussion.Gabriel reveals that she will conceive in the future (shall). He never states how long from his speaking "shall" will be.
Mary also refers to in the future (shall); her future includes betrothal (as well as presently) and typically marriage. The future of shall is ongoing.
Gabriel reveals that she will conceive in the future (shall). He never states how long from his speaking "shall" will be.
Mary also refers to in the future (shall); her future includes betrothal (as well as presently) and typically marriage. The future of shall is ongoing.
Gabriel reveals that she will conceive in the future (shall). He never states how long from his speaking "shall" will be.
Mary also refers to in the future (shall); her future includes betrothal (as well as presently) and typically marriage. The future of shall is ongoing.
Okay, we don't know how many days thereafter, but Lk. 1:42 indicates it was probably within moments of her agreement.
Most agree that Jesus and John were 6 months apart, which is what is said immediately after the angel's visit.
So, how will I have a son, I am presently a virgin. True. And nearly immediately she became pregnant.
Exactly. Thus, your position that grammatically it MUST mean for all perpetuity is incorrect.
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Ahhhh....I found a thread on itIt seems that Matt 1:25 and Luke 1:34 are the verses most used in this discussion.
I have them here along with the greek texts.
Luke 1:34 Said yet Mariam toward the Messenger "how shall be this, since a man not I am knowing/ginwskw <1097> (5719)"
ginwskw <1097> (5719) vi present Active 1 Sing.
Textus Rec.) Luke 1:34 eipen de mariam proV ton aggelon pwV estai touto epei andra ou ginwskw
Matt 1:25 And not he knew/eginwsken <1097> (5707) her untill/ewV <2193> of which she brought forth the son of her the firstborn and he calls the name of Him Jesus
eginwsken <1097> (5707) vi imperfect Act 3 Sing
Textus Rec.) Matthew 1:25 kai ouk eginwsken authn ewV ou eteken ton uion authV ton prwtotokon kai ekalesen to onoma autou ihsoun
This arguement has been going on for 5 years on CF!!!Ahhhh....I found a thread on it
http://www.christianforums.com/t734140/
Does Matthew 1.25 refute the perpetual virginity of Mary?
Yep, and that earlier tradition was that the Theotokos was ever-Virgin. It was discussed in the following centuries due to people coming about with false teachings against this right teaching, thus it was thrown out at that time (was it the 5th century? or 4th). all of what was believed from the beginning is reiterated in the EC's later on out of defending the Truth. There was no need to bring these things up beforehand because there were no disputes. So, until there was a dispute on such beliefs, it was not brought to attention of the councils and such. Understand?1. If you are correct and Christians have affirmed this for 1800 years, then there is an earlier Tradition that was displaced by this one.
Ok, I've seen this in just about every one of your posts, Josiah, and I will clear up your misquoting of what I said. You originally said there were 50,000 denominations out there, out of which 2 believed in the ever-virginity of Mary. I told you that in decades or years from now, there could be 100,000 denominations (Protestant) because of the constant splitting, splintering, etc. Didn't say that was the case now. So please stop saying this. If you need proof of what I said and don't believe me, I'd be happy to find my original post and post it for you. Otherwise, please correct the misquoting. Thank you.2. Today some 99,998 denominations (if we accept our Orthodox sister's claim of 100,000 denominations) do not deny this; they just don't proclaim this. They are SILENT. Thus, they have nothing to prove. TWO affirm it. They have something to prove.
This arguement has been going on for 5 years on CF!!!
10th August 2004, 12:04 AM
Those that believe in it care about it, and evidently so do you, as you are posting here2000 years. I'm still not sure why anyone cares particularly?
No it is not. It is speaking of the here and now as when the Angel approached her.. Says nothing to the effect that she will remain an virgin. When the Angel aproached her and told her that she would bear a son this was quite confusing to her for she had not known any man and did not until the birth of Jesus.Lesson Five of Online Greek Course
In the above verse, the context indicates that the continuous state is limited by the ending of the situation.
In the verse from Romans (cited by CJ) the context exhibits that the condition ends at death (noted in the verses which summarize what Paul has said).
At the time Luke 1:34 is stated by Mary, Mary is betrothed which is typically followed by marriage. Mary begins her statement with the future tense (shall) which covers her present condition and the future (shall). There is no other limiting in the context of the passage/s. The only context provided for her statement is "shall". Thus, the duration of the condition described by the present tense in this statement is the future; the "knowing not a man" is for the present and future. The condition is continuous.
Human pride got in the way with interpreting on their own with ignorance of what was first taught and defended, and then it was easy for the enemy to lead them away from this tradition through their pride and ignorance.Irrelevant as the EV is something that was and is believed by the Church when the Church was one and it is something that was believed by the reformers themselves.
What occurred two hundred years ago that replaced what everyone believed? Did God hide something from even the reformers? Who were these men that decided that the EV was wrong? Did they have the gift of prophecy from the Holy Spirit? Did the Holy Spirit give these men an insight into Scripture that wasn't there before?
The burden of proof is on your court as the EV has always been part of the Church.
We know when the conception occurred retrospectively (because we are told this). There is no mention of when the future event will occur. Gabriel does not reveal when in the future this would occur.
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