[PERMANENTLY CLOSED] When should we change our reasoning / beliefs?

[Archaeopteryx]

Yes, I do insulate and protect my beliefs because there are those that would have me doubt them and give them up. Satan is a liar and a deceiver and he is very clever.

As we discussed in private conversation, if there really is a Satan who is trying to deceive you as a means of securing your damnation, then it is very important that you know you have acquired beliefs that are genuinely salvific, and not beliefs that you have honestly mistaken as salvific, but which would actually condemn you to Hell. (I alluded to this in an earlier discussion.) If Satan is as clever as you say, then wouldn't he try to give you apparently salvific beliefs that you must not question?

 

[bhsmte]

The better question is, what are you trying to convince this person of? If your trying to convince us there is no God, you're doing a really lousy job. You forget that we're claiming God is perfect, therefore, for you to convince us He's not real, you'd have to be perfect just like God, thereby making you God, thus proving God is perfect.

I didn't say I was trying to convince anyone of anything, it was other other poster, that stated they are willing to be convinced.

I could care less what someone believes or doesn't believe, but I am much more interested in how a person justifies why they believe or don't believe what they do and that is where discussion becomes interesting.

This person claimed they were open to information and then claimed there was a zero percent chance they were wrong. Seems like a giant contradiction to me.

 

[asherahSamaria]

"Do you know what a symbiotic relationship is?

Actually I have a follow on question - apologies if it is off topic. Totally hypothetical you understand.

Humans have nearly as many cells within their bodies belonging to microbes as they do actual "human" cells. Not as bulky maybe but they are there none the less. These seem to affect many things such as emotions, cravings, behaviors etc.
Now I don't know what your view of heaven is - but most Christians I've spoken to reject the notion that animals go to "heaven". So with this in mind how would "you", which is really a symbiotic gestalt entity of human and microbes, exist in heaven where such microbes are not allowed?

 

[Chriliman]

I didn't say I was trying to convince anyone of anything, it was other other poster, that stated they are willing to be convinced.

I could care less what someone believes or doesn't believe, but I am much more interested in how a person justifies why they believe or don't believe what they do and that is where discussion becomes interesting.

This person claimed they were open to information and then claimed there was a zero percent chance they were wrong. Seems like a giant contradiction to me.

So does convincing this person that they contradicted themselves give you hope that they will stop believing in God? What if they don't stop believing in God even though you pointed out that they contradicted themselves? What then is the point of pointing out the contradiction? Is the point to justify your own unjustified beliefs?

 

[bhsmte]

So does convincing this person that they contradicted themselves give you hope that they will stop believing in God? What if they don't stop believing in God even though you pointed out that they contradicted themselves? What then is the point of pointing out the contradiction? Is the point to justify your own unjustified beliefs?

I will say again, I could care less what a person believes. The interesting discussion comes from, how one justifies what they believe.

 

[Chriliman]

As we discussed in private conversation, if there really is a Satan who is trying to deceive you as a means of securing your damnation, then it is very important that you know you have acquired beliefs that are genuinely salvific, and not beliefs that you have honestly mistaken as salvific, but which would actually condemn you to Hell. (I alluded to this in an earlier discussion.) If Satan is as clever as you say, then wouldn't he try to give you apparently salvific beliefs that you must not question?

Ah, deception is real isn't it? This is exactly why God sent Jesus to defeat the source of deception, which is satan. There is power in the name of Jesus.

 

[bhsmte]

Ah, deception is real isn't it? This is exactly why God sent Jesus to defeat the source of deception, which is satan. There is power in the name of Jesus.

No need to worry about Satan then, right?

 

[Davian]

Of course it is controversial. It is controversial because of its implications.

None of the proposed models that include a past eternal universe can be squared with the mathematical proofs which demonstrate that any universe which is on average in a state of expansion, must be past-finite.

There's controversial, and then there's controversial.

Let me know when astronomers enter politics and lobby to have hypotheses from modern cosmology carved into multi-ton granite monuments and placed in state judicial buildings.

 

[Chriliman]

I will say again, I could care less what a person believes. The interesting discussion comes from, how one justifies what they believe.

Right, and it appears you justify your lack of belief in a perfect God by pointing out the contradictions of those who do believe in a perfect God. So if I put myself in your shoes and I honestly ask myself why I'm pointing out contradictions in other people who I understand are not perfect, I think I would then realize that I'm being very hypocritical because I myself am not perfect either so maybe I should reconsider my non-belief in a perfect God.

Just a thought

 

[Chriliman]

No need to worry about Satan then, right?

Well, that depends if you actually believe Jesus has destroyed satan.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Right, and it appears you justify your lack of belief in a perfect God by pointing out the contradictions of those who do believe in a perfect God. So if I put myself in your shoes and I honestly ask myself why I'm pointing out contradictions in other people who I understand are not perfect, I think I would then realize that I'm being very hypocritical because I myself am not perfect either so maybe I should reconsider my non-belief in a perfect God.

Just a thought

You realise that that makes no sense?

 

[Chriliman]

You realise that that makes no sense?

You say that a lot about what I say. I wouldn't post it if I didn't think it made sense. Just because you're incapable of answering questions I pose does not mean what I'm saying does not make sense. All it really means is that your incapable of answering questions I pose.

Like how does it not make sense that truth is infinite and timeless?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

You say that a lot about what I say. I wouldn't post it if I didn't think it made sense. Just because you're incapable of answering questions I pose does not mean what I'm saying does not make sense. All it really means is that your incapable of answering questions I pose.

Yes, and I'm not the only one whose noticed that many of your posts do not make sense.

 

[Chriliman]

Yes, and I'm not the only one whose noticed that many of your posts do not make sense.

Thanks for proving my point

The honest question is still on the table, unanswered.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Thanks for proving my point

The honest question is still on the table, unanswered.

You didn't have a point. You seem to be under the impression that you are posting very profound things. What you're posting isn't even wrong.

 

[Chriliman]

You didn't have a point. You seem to be under the impression that are posting very profound things. What you're posting isn't even wrong.

Yet you want me to think I'm wrong for some unknowable reason?

 

[bhsmte]

Right, and it appears you justify your lack of belief in a perfect God by pointing out the contradictions of those who do believe in a perfect God. So if I put myself in your shoes and I honestly ask myself why I'm pointing out contradictions in other people who I understand are not perfect, I think I would then realize that I'm being very hypocritical because I myself am not perfect either so maybe I should reconsider my non-belief in a perfect God.

Just a thought

Please don't assume how I reached my non belief conclusions, as you would be wrong.

 

[bhsmte]

Well, that depends if you actually believe Jesus has destroyed satan.

Based on what you stated in this thread, there is no reason to be concerned about Satan, correct?

 

[Davian]

It is not presumptuous to claim that one knows something to be true when they have good reasons and evidence to back up their claim.

I happen to agree with him. Talking with skeptics only helps me realize that my beliefs are grounded on good reasons and evidence because my beliefs time and time again withstand the scrutiny to which I willingly subject them.

I have yet to see this "good reasons and evidence".

I'm still waiting for you back at post #197, if your presuppositions are up to a bit of scrutiny.

 

[Davian]

If there were not evidence for my beliefs, they would not be my beliefs. All of my beliefs are evidenced and supported in sundry ways.

So is the idea that the Earth hangs motionless in space and that the cosmos rotates around it.

Rotating Stars

• Davian
• May 26, 2014

Australian Astronomical Observatory