[PERMANENTLY CLOSED] Genesis 1:6

029b10 · Sep 14, 2015

AV1611VET said:
What gave it away? verse 2?

Genesis 1:2a And the earth was without form, and void;

It also says void, so there nothing there then-void as in living matter.

Without form, since it was covered under a deluge of waters then what shape would it have but a round sphere.

"he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him." Isa 53:2

So is a person that hath no form nor comeliness, it is a reference to a lack of feature. Like mountain tops and valleys.

AV1611VET · Sep 14, 2015

029b10 said:
It also says void, so there nothing there then-void as in living matter.

Correct.

It was void of life.

029b10 said:
Without form, since it was covered under a deluge of waters then what shape would it have but a round sphere.

Then you won't mind if I conclude that the Bible doesn't say the earth was flat?

ChetSinger · Sep 14, 2015

Jan Volkes said:
Prior to this the earth was just a ball of water floating in space, although there was no core to make it a ball so what was it? magic from start to finish?
How many Americans believe this?

There are some Christian physicists who have attempted to approach this in a literal way, via relativistic physics, and see how far they can take it. I'm thinking of John Hartnett and Russell Humphreys in particular (they're not a team; they've come up with different ideas). I think their results are interesting. If you google them you'll find links to their proposals, and Dr. Hartnett's blog.

In Humphrey's case, if my memory serves me, he began the universe with a rotating ball of water about 2 light-years across that contained the mass of the universe. He let it collapse under it's own gravity, where it then ignited into a kind of Big Bang (but a bounded, not unbounded one) and then settled out into galaxies and stars. Fascinating stuff, imo.

029b10 · Sep 14, 2015

AV1611VET said:
Correct.

It was void of life.Then you won't mind if I conclude that the Bible doesn't say the earth was flat?

Your free to conclude how you conclude you want to conclude, but only if you tell me why

The reason I have faith in the spherical earth and not the flat earth is due to the Hinnie Principle,
And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.
Otherwise, I would have used Gen 1:14
And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
While I don't know if a person can really distinguish the spherical shape of the sun that well, before the telescope the moon would still have gave one the perception of the sphere while the sun could give one the impression of being flat. But since I don't see in the scriptures where one can base that opinion upon except from outside the Torah, which is why I would lean towards G 14.

But you saying we agree on something?

029b10 · Sep 14, 2015

Papias said:
A lot of verses "gave it away", making it clear. One was verse 1:6, as pointed out in the OP:

We live under a dome-

The Bible describes the sky (firmament -- literally "metal bowl made by a hammer"- Gen 1:6-8, 1:14-17) as a solid dome, like a tent (Isa 40:22, Psa 19:4, 104:2, Pr 8:27-29, Ezk 1:26), that is arched over the surface of the earth. It also has windows to let rain/snow in (Gen 7:11, 8:2, Deut 28:12, 2 Kings 7:2, Job 37:18, Mal 3:10, Rev 4:1). Ezekiel 1:22 and Job 37:18 even tell us that it's hard like bronze and sparkles like ice, that God walks on it (Job 22:14) and can be removed (Rev 6:14). Taken literally, as the YECs insist we do, these verses show a solid sky above us. And again, many Christians in history have interpreted it as such.

In Christ Jesus-

Papias

And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life,
and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. Gen 1:20

Do you have an interpretation on how the firmament resulted forming the expanse consisting of 78% Nitrogen, 21% oxygen and 1 % trace elements.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Gen 1:6-8

yeshuasavedme · Sep 14, 2015

Steeno7 said:
Ummm, no. In the beginning, God created the heavens AND the earth. The earth is there "at the beginning".

No. The elements were created that all things would be formed from.
The elements were not organized into the created things in the beginning, but began to be made in the order God wrote for us in Genesis 1..
Before day three of creation week, the earth/dry did not exist except the elements used to form it existed in the waters of the globe
Earth was not named until the waters below the heavens were commanded
to be gathered together in one place and the "dry" to appear.
God named the "dry", "Earth".
Day three: earth is formed out of the elements created in the beginning, in waters..

yeshuasavedme · Sep 14, 2015

Steeno7 said:
Ummm, no. In the beginning, God created the heavens AND the earth. The earth is there "at the beginning".

They were not formed elementally, out of the waters until the days they were named.

AV1611VET · Sep 14, 2015

029b10 said:
Your free to conclude how you conclude you want to conclude, but only if you tell me why

I have a set of standards I use to make my conclusions.

For lack of a better term, I call them my Boolean standards.

They go like this:

If the Bible says it, but Science disagrees: go with the Bible.
If the Bible doesn't say it, but Science does: go with Science.

AV1611VET · Sep 14, 2015

Papias said:
Flat Earth-

Paul speaks of four dimensions of space:

Ephesians 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

And Jesus made reference to the earth being a sphere, albeit in a parable:

Matthew 13:45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
Matthew 13:46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

029b10 · Sep 14, 2015

By that time, hadn't astrology already emerged in Rome?

Was going to start a thread about the 7 days, have you considered the reason that Genesis uses the 7 days when the forming of the heaven and earth were omitted in those 7 days, and then in Gen 2:4, it seems to suggest the day when earth and heavens were made, so the 2nd day would have been the 1 st day. Got a thought but have to work it throught first. But pretty confident there was a reason.

Did you see the question about the expanse in the firmament and the %?

AV1611VET · Sep 14, 2015

029b10 said:
By that time, hadn't astrology already emerged in Rome?

Was going to start a thread about the 7 days, have you considered the reason that Genesis uses the 7 days when the forming of the heaven and earth were omitted in those 7 days, and then in Gen 2:4, it seems to suggest the day when earth and heavens were made, so the 2nd day would have been the 1 st day. Got a thought but have to work it throught first. But pretty confident there was a reason.

Did you see the question about the expanse in the firmament and the %?

Are you talking to me?

029b10 · Sep 14, 2015

Yeah, sorry bout that guess I did get the quote added

AV1611VET · Sep 14, 2015

029b10 said:
Yeah, sorry bout that guess I did get the quote added

Were you addressing me?

I don't know if you want me to respond, or someone else.

029b10 · Sep 14, 2015

AV1611VET said:
Were you addressing me?

I don't know if you want me to respond, or someone else.

Yes, fixing to have to go offline but what did you think about the firmament day 2

yeshuasavedme · Sep 14, 2015

Papias said:
Chapter 1 of Genesis, and especially Gen 1:6, along with dozens of confirming verses elsewhere, depict the world as flat, under a hard dome, underwater....

Never!
"World" in Hebrew, is sphere/globe. The "world" cannot be "flat" because from the beginning it is a "globe". A globe is not possibly ever even imagined to be "flat" nor depicted as such by the Creator from the beginning.

The circle of the earth is "circling" it in the beginning, when the light is separated from the darkness, and the evening and the morning is one "Day".

The heavens are not even named "heavens/two waters", until the expanse is stretched out between the divided in two waters of the created globe, on day 2 of creation week.

The waters are still above the heavens that were cut off the waters below the heavens, and they still circle the earth with the heavens; and in the created heavens the stars, sun, and moon run their own peculiar paths/courses in the circle of the earth/the heavens.
That is what the Word teaches and confirms by multiple verses in many passages referred to by the prophets of God.

heavens are created circling the globe on day 1, then the heavens are expanded out from the waters of the globe, which are divided in two, and the expanse is stretched out under the waters and above the waters
The separation of the light from the darkness depicts the revolving circle of the earth, creating evening and morning/one day.

The world is the globe of water, in Genesis 1.
There is no "earth underwater", in Genesis 1. The earth is not formed out of the elements created in the waters of creation until day 3 of creation week, and it does not exist but in elemental forms in water, until day 3, and is not even named "earth", until day 3, when the waters of creation that are remaining under the heavens are commanded to be gathered together in one place, and the "dry" to appear out of that process, as one mass of "dry", which the Creator then names "Earth".

AV1611VET · Sep 14, 2015

029b10 said:
Yes, fixing to have to go offline but what did you think about the firmament day 2

QV please:

AV1611VET said:
There are three firmaments mentioned in the Scriptures:

F1 = atmosphere = 0-62 miles up.

F2 = space = 62 miles - edge of universe.

F3 = Heaven proper.

Firmaments are containment areas, populated with their respective objects, and are also known as "heavens."

That's why Genesis 1:1 says "heaven," while Genesis 2:1 ... after creation is finished ... says "heavens."

yeshuasavedme · Sep 14, 2015

To be bilbically literate, one must needs stop arguing nonsense from men's myths, and go to the Word itself, which declares the created mass of water was a globe, in the beginning, throughout Scripture.

The Hebrew word translated world is also translated "globe", and from the "BL elements of the Word that God gave Adam inwe get English words like "ball/ballet/

Jer 10:12
He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world H8398 by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.

yeshuasavedme · Sep 14, 2015

The Hebrew Word which is translated "world" means "globe".
God does not ever teach a "flat earth", but tells of His created globe of waters out of which He formed all things, even the heavens as His Powers were formed out of the waters and stretched out between the cut in two waters of creation.
The half of the created waters which He cut off the waters of the created globe to stretch the Firmament of His "Powers" out, between, are still above the stretched out "Firmament of His Powers".

Jer 10:12
He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world H8398 by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.

yeshuasavedme · Sep 14, 2015

The stretched out heavens are numbered as three stories, in the Word of God, and the atmosphere is not number 1, in the Word of God, but is the "face" of the stretched out heavens, in the Word of God.
Paradise/God's planted garden, that He took/raptured Adam from earth below to labor and guard it is in the third heaven which is stretched out from the earth, between the cut in two waters of creation.
That is what the Word of God teaches.
Men make up many myths which the Word refutes, and they go to great lengths to try to prove what they have never held, visited, seen, measured, nor defined, and do not understand.

Jimmy D · Sep 15, 2015

Well, if this thread's taught me anything it's that we're not going to learn anything useful about origins of the Earth, Universe or life from Genesis.

To think Creationists accuse 'evolutionists' of pseudoscience making 'guesses and suppositions'. I always enjoy reading Papias' posts though, a voice of reason in the wilderness.

[PERMANENTLY CLOSED] Genesis 1:6

It is a hinnie talking to the Spirit not a mule.

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

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It is a hinnie talking to the Spirit not a mule.

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It is a hinnie talking to the Spirit not a mule.

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