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Being righteous is not being sinlessly perfect, especially the way you think of it...
Yes... but we still are to strive for perfection. We might fall short, but we have Him as an advocate... yet we still strive until the day that the Law is finally written in full on the mind and heart. When that happens we will no longer fall short, it is part of the perfecting process. So while I agree with you Jack, the "falling short is what every human does and will always do" is one place I don't agree. There will come a time when this isn't the case... but that time isn't today.Falling short is what every human does and will always do.
If you want to live a life that is without the need of salvation, ya, this is what God demands from you.
Christ is the only human that ever lived that never fell short.
God demands perfection. However, since we can never achieve this, He sent His son.
Like others have said, we should set our desires for perfection, however understanding that we will never achieve it and God is aware of that.
To accept that we cannot achieve this perfection is not an excuse to just blunder along and follow the world. We are to still be recognizable, to non Christians, as being different in our behavior and actions.
We should be beacons of light to the world shining on God and leading the way to a loving, caring, serving lifestyle.
If you have ever had someone say "you go to church"? or "Your a Christian"? with surprise in their voice.... maybe you should check your life actions.
The old covenant "demands". The new covenant promises. Unfortunately, we are still reading the promises with old natured eyes, and the only way we can see them is as things I must do, not things God has promised to do in me.I'm not asking if man can be perfect in this life. I'm asking whether God demands perfection.
When did I ever say there was no command to obey in the New Testament? I think you should reread my replies. I very plainly stated there is a command we must follow, but it is the only one.
Love your neighbor as yourself.
If you do that then you fulfill the entire law of God.
You are right "that time isn't today".Yes... but we still are to strive for perfection. We might fall short, but we have Him as an advocate... yet we still strive until the day that the Law is finally written in full on the mind and heart. When that happens we will no longer fall short, it is part of the perfecting process. So while I agree with you Jack, the "falling short is what every human does and will always do" is one place I don't agree. There will come a time when this isn't the case... but that time isn't today.
Blessings.
Ken
You said:The old covenant "demands". The new covenant promises.
You said:Unfortunately, we are still reading the promises with old natured eyes, and the only way we can see them is as things I must do, not things God has promised to do in me. No, we are not made robots, God unites within us and changes our 'want to'. ]Oh, but how hard it has been for us to see this with eyes of faith. Thank God that in this final hour, God is awakening us to the truth of who He has made us in Christ. We who are His are about to light our lamps and shnie forth be ause we ARE light, and have been since the day we were first saved.
You said:Big changes are coming. The bride will not meet her bridegroom splintered, fleshly holding onto her imputed righteousness but with little if any true righteousnessshining forth for an unbelieving world to see. God is fixing to do something in our generation that has not been seen since the wolves came in after Paul's death, not sparing the flock. He is about to cause those in the world to exclaim:
"Look! That which bore only briars and thorns has become agsin like the garden of Eden." (Ezekiel 36)
The wheat and tares, the virgins with oil and those without, are about to be seperated. The latter rain is about to begin, and as awesome as the book of Acts was, the latter rain will be greater thsn the former.
Blessings,
Gideon
This might be useful here:
What does the word "perfect" or perfected, or perfection mean by original languages in...
God Bless!
I spoke of being credited with righteousness and the need to, out of love and gratitude and to fulfill God's righteous requirements, work out our salvation (obey Christ's teachings).This is actually quite simple, and not at all a new belief. God established a covenant with Adam and Eve based on their perfect adherence to the Law. For them, and their progeny, to inherit everlasting life and enjoy continued harmony with God, the representatives, i.e., Adam and Eve, must keep the law perfectly. They failed, and in doing so plunged themselves and their progeny into ruin. Man fell from grace, he inherited a sinful nature, every part of his being was corrupted by the stain of sin, yada, yada, yada.
Now God, being merciful, didn't leave man in that state of destitution. He established a new covenant. I'll call it the covenant of grace. In this covenant, God mercifully established a plan by which His elect would be spared from His wrath. God still required perfect obedience in this new covenant. However, unlike the covenant He made with Adam, this new covenant, which was established amongst the Godhead, recognized man's inherent inability to meet the requirement of perfection. Therefore, as part of the covenant, God the Father sent God the Son to be a propitiation. Christ was sent to fulfill the requirement of perfect obedience that the first Adam failed to meet. Jesus fulfilled the requirement of perfection and God graciously deigns to credit the believer with the righteousness of Christ.
So you see, perfection is, and always has been, required. The difference is that it is the perfection of Christ for which we are credited and, therefore, we stand before God as justified (this means to be pronounced just, or without sin).
Well, I would disagree to the extent that those that are born again are given a new nature but, for the record, I also acknowledge that the weakness of our flesh will prevent sinlessness this side of Heaven.
Are you saying that God held Adam and Eve to the Law of Moses and the 10 Commandments?This is actually quite simple, and not at all a new belief. God established a covenant with Adam and Eve based on their perfect adherence to the Law. For them, and their progeny, to inherit everlasting life and enjoy continued harmony with God, the representatives, i.e., Adam and Eve, must keep the law perfectly.
Yes, we are children of God now but we are not capable yet of perfection. I personally believe that God is bigger on intent than He is execution. Meaning, you can do all the right things but if not out of love, what good is it? But if you try because you love and fail.... what good is that? I think much better than getting it right without love, but that's just me.You are right "that time isn't today".
It will be in eternity.
In this life, I don't know about you, but I continually, no matter how hard I try, fall short.
So, if God is demanding it of me.........I am a disappointment.
Yet, I am saved.
It's not possible, especially in our own strength, and I don't mean this as any kind of accusation, but, I doubt that you can or are doing it either, especially not in your own strength...
You said:Also Jesus also told someone that "if", "IF" they wanted to be, "perfect" then keep all of the commandments... And by that he meant the Old Covenant... Now, what is "implied" by that, what is the "spirit" of it, or behind it, when Jesus says "if" "IF" you want to be "perfect", what is implied, is that it is actually not possible to be perfect, especially by trying, especially in our own strength, especially by self-righteousness by law or keeping the old covenant commands, especially by your definition of perfect...
You said:It is not possible for us to be perfect by the law or by studiously and dutifully keeping the old covenant commandments
You said:for anyone at all except Jesus himself, that is what is implied in nearly all the texts where Jesus mentions "perfection"... The implication behind it is that it is actually not possible by the old covenant commands (maybe by the new that Christ instituted involving perfect Love, and perfect faith) (those might "might", but it's a stretch, might be able to, by the end of them, be able to make us sinlessly perfect), but, I doubt it... You would be equal to Christ and God, if you could...Are you equal to Christ and God Jason...? If you think you are, their is almost always usually a pride issue, which is a sin...
You said:And, again, what is "perfect" if we are each, different and very unique "individuals"...?
You said:If your going to focus on perfection, especially sinless perfection, then it will be at the very end, of being perfect in Faith and Love, which is the New Covenant...
Are you perfect in Faith, or Love...?
You said:The whole "perfection" idea is a "trap" meant to catch (wicked) men, children of the Devil with pride issues, just like him, and identify them to the rest of us who believe in the very and more correct grace doctrine, who know just how imperfect we are...
God Bless!
Then I would say that you have not been paying attention when you read the New Testament then.
Here is one list of commands put together by a particular church (that was taken from the New Testament).
1,050 New Testament Commands | Christian Assemblies International
Do you believe that a believer in Christ can walk away from the faith and lose their salvation?
Or do you think God only chooses to regenerate only those He knows will preserve?
Is there even a thing as living holy as a requirement in your belief?
Or can a believer die in one or two unrepentant sins (like lying or lusting after a woman) and still be saved?
Do you mind giving a little bit of commentary to what you are talking about here?
You are not exactly being clear here.
Thank you.
And may God bless you.
...
God had a good opinion of Enoch.1 John 3:7 says be not deceived, he that does righteousness is righteousness.
So righteousness is also doing things that are righteous, too.
If this was not the case, then Jesus's obedience would be worthless non sense.
...
Christ accomplished the law at the cross, only one needed to, and only one who is God could do it, and that still remains a fact...
No, sin is not OK, just forgivable, (under circumstances between God and that individual alone) is all...
God had a good opinion of Enoch.
Yes, every human (Besides Jesus) has sinned in the past tense. But Paul is not saying that this is the case in the future tense.In Romans 3:23 (WEB) Paul wrote, "...for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God"
I suggested that God thought well of Enoch. God also thought well of Abraham. He thought well of Job too.Hebrews 11 says that Enoch had the testimony that he pleased God.
Surely Enoch was not sinning so as to please God.
That wouldn't make any sense (if that is what you are suggesting).
...
I'm not asking if man can be perfect in this life. I'm asking whether God demands perfection.
I suggested that God thought well of Enoch. God also thought well of Abraham. He thought well of Job too.
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