People to avoid.

[Xeno.of.athens]

[NRSVUE 2tim 3:1-5] 1 Godlessness in the Last Days You must understand this, that in the last days distressing times will come. 2 For people will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 unfeeling, implacable, slanderers, profligates, brutes, haters of good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 holding to the outward form of godliness but denying its power. Avoid them!

What do you think about that?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

[NRSVUE 2tim 3:1-5] 1 Godlessness in the Last Days You must understand this, that in the last days distressing times will come. 2 For people will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 unfeeling, implacable, slanderers, profligates, brutes, haters of good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 holding to the outward form of godliness but denying its power. Avoid them!

What do you think about that?

My thinking is that this is what comes with the onset and manifestation of an Age of Revolutionary Thought, which is where we are now and have been for quite some time historically. Many descend into apostasy and defiance and essentially become their own Caligula or Nero, or even their own version of King Solomon.

This is the moral and ideological downward progression we find explained by Paul in Romans chapter 1. The solution to this is found in the rest of that same letter to the Romans (and in the rest of the New Testament writings).

 

[Maria Billingsley]

[NRSVUE 2tim 3:1-5] 1 Godlessness in the Last Days You must understand this, that in the last days distressing times will come. 2 For people will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 unfeeling, implacable, slanderers, profligates, brutes, haters of good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 holding to the outward form of godliness but denying its power. Avoid them!

What do you think about that?

Ah, wolves in sheep's clothing. Unfortunately, we see this all over Christendom today.
Thanks for sharing.

 

[Hentenza]

[NRSVUE 2tim 3:1-5] 1 Godlessness in the Last Days You must understand this, that in the last days distressing times will come. 2 For people will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 unfeeling, implacable, slanderers, profligates, brutes, haters of good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 holding to the outward form of godliness but denying its power. Avoid them!

What do you think about that?

All of these people are present now and exhibiting the evil behavior that Paul described. Historically these type of people have always existed in one form or another.

However, Paul qualifies these verses as happening “in the last days” so the obvious question is are we living in the last days?

 

[bèlla]

The advice is sound and reminiscent of what I shared regarding sheep and goats the other day and how their behavior mirrors the points the bible makes that’s why they used the analogy. In the natural, sheep don’t influence goats. They’re called docile for a reason and if you put them in a pen they’ll stay put.

But goats are a different breed and containing them isn’t enough. You have to reinforce the structure or they’ll climb out. And if you put them with sheep they’ll follow suit. That’s why we’re admonished not to be unequally yoked. The unrighteous are more likely to influence us than the reverse.

There’s an agricultural term that attests to this called the Judas goat. He’s trained to be amongst the sheep and lead them to a designated location. Look at the image. Just like we have them on the farm we have them in the world, body and so on. If we want to avoid the same the bible instructs us to obtain wisdom.

To you, O men, I call, And my voice is directed to the sons of men. “O you naive or inexperienced [who are easily misled], understand prudence and seek astute common sense; And, O you [closed-minded, self-confident] fools, understand wisdom [seek the insight and self-discipline that leads to godly living].

“Listen, for I will speak excellent and noble things; And the opening of my lips will reveal right things. “For my mouth will utter truth, And wickedness is repulsive and loathsome to my lips. “All the words of my mouth are in righteousness (upright, in right standing with God); There is nothing contrary to truth or perverted (crooked) in them.

“They are all straightforward to him who understands [with an open and willing mind], And right to those who find knowledge and live by it. “Take my instruction rather than [seeking] silver, And take knowledge rather than choicest gold, For wisdom is better than rubies; And all desirable things cannot compare with her.

“I, [godly] wisdom, reside with prudence [good judgment, moral courage and astute common sense], And I find knowledge and discretion. “The [reverent] fear and worshipful awe of the LORD includes the hatred of evil; Pride and arrogance and the evil way,
And the perverted mouth, I hate.

“Counsel is mine and sound wisdom; I am understanding, power and strength are mine. “By me kings reign And rulers decide and decree justice. “By me princes rule, and nobles, All who judge and govern rightly. “I love those who love me; And those who seek me early and diligently will find me.

“Riches and honor are with me, Enduring wealth and righteousness (right standing with God). “My fruit is better than gold, even pure gold, And my yield is better than choicest silver. “I, [Wisdom, continuously] walk in the way of righteousness, In the midst of the paths of justice, That I may cause those who love me to inherit wealth and true riches, And that I may fill their treasuries.

~bella

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

[NRSVUE 2tim 3:1-5] 1 Godlessness in the Last Days You must understand this, that in the last days distressing times will come. 2 For people will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 unfeeling, implacable, slanderers, profligates, brutes, haters of good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 holding to the outward form of godliness but denying its power. Avoid them!

What do you think about that?

Verse 5 ("holding to the outward form of godliness but denying its power") seems to be gramatically different than the rest of the charges, perhaps indicating that this aspect of their actions is an umbrella that explains the reason for the others.

 

[Delvianna]

In the natural, sheep don’t influence goats. They’re called docile for a reason and if you put them in a pen they’ll stay put.

But goats are a different breed and containing them isn’t enough. You have to reinforce the structure or they’ll climb out. And if you put them with sheep they’ll follow suit.

I didn't know that about the difference, thanks for sharing! That's fascinating!

If we want to avoid the same the bible instructs us to obtain wisdom.

Amen! And he gives it to us freely! James 1:5

What do you think about that?

I think 2PhiloVoid said it beautifully, but I want to add that there's also no discernment either. People follow after a lot of stuff but don't see that the root of their actions or beliefs is filled with bad fruit. So when demons start influencing people, no one tests, no one makes sure that the root is righteous, they think it sounds biblical and then spread the influence. So when I read this bible verse, I think its calling out the root of the problem too within the church, where we often see the above layer that can masquerade as righteousness when it's not. People mistake heresy for wisdom or a "deeper" level that some just don't quite understand. This is why Bella's ending answer is perfect. Obtain wisdom from the Lord so we aren't swayed by deceptive doctrine or practices whether its within the church or outside of it.

 

[RileyG]

[NRSVUE 2tim 3:1-5] 1 Godlessness in the Last Days You must understand this, that in the last days distressing times will come. 2 For people will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 unfeeling, implacable, slanderers, profligates, brutes, haters of good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 holding to the outward form of godliness but denying its power. Avoid them!

What do you think about that?

That sounds like much of humanity! We ALL sin, but we are called to repentance!

 

[Bob Crowley]

Sheep and goats were both common domestic animals in ancient Israel.

Ancient Israelite cuisine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Israelites usually ate meat from domesticated goats and sheep. Goat’s meat was the most common. Fat-tailed sheep were the predominant variety of sheep in ancient Israel, but, as sheep were valued more than goats, they were eaten less often. The fat of the tail was considered a delicacy.[58] Beef and venison were eaten primarily by the elites, and fattened calves provided veal for the wealthy (for example, as mentioned in the Bible, Amos 6:4).[59

Christ was primarily talking to the common people, who were far more familiar with sheep and goats than cattle. They would have known very well the different personalities of sheep and goats from everyday contact, and He used that in a metaphorical sense when He was talking about the coming of the Son of Man at the final judgment.

The Sheep and the Goats

Dr. Brant Pitre discusses the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats. What does this parable reveal about the second coming of Jesus and the final judgement?

catholicproductions.com

And in that context, he uses the analogy of a shepherd separating the sheep and the goats as a metaphor for the final separation of the righteous, who will inherit everlasting life, and the wicked, who will inherit everlasting punishment. So the imagery here is not an accident because if you look at sheep and goats, one of the things you will notice about the two animals is that they have very different, so to speak, personalities. Sheep are, as a rule, docile to the master. They follow the shepherd, they follow his voice, they flock together, they are docile creatures. Goats — and if you ever had a goat you would know — are stubborn, as a rule they are very stubborn animals. So even with the imagery here of sheep and goats, you can kind of already get a sense of what the difference between the righteous and the wicked are. The righteous are those who are obedient to the Lord, who are docile to the will of God; whereas the goats, the wicked, are those who are prideful, who are stubborn and who have refused to do the will of God. Jesus doesn’t make that explicit, but it is just kind of implicit in the language and imagery of sheep and goats.

My old pastor was less flattering about sheep. In one of his sermons he said "they stink and they're stupid."

No doubt we're like that at times compared to the pefection of heaven.

 

[Studyman]

All of these people are present now and exhibiting the evil behavior that Paul described. Historically these type of people have always existed in one form or another.

However, Paul qualifies these verses as happening “in the last days” so the obvious question is are we living in the last days?

In my understanding, given that Paul teaches the Holy scriptures were written for their and our admonition, we all have end times. The same could be said about Noah's end time as well, and Abraham, and David, and Zacharias and Simeon and Anna, and Paul as well. He even pointed this out in the Scripture that was referenced in this thread.

2 Tim. 3: 1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: "from such turn away".

6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

Notice this isn't a reference of some future "Sort" of persons, but they already exist in Paul's Time.

7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

Here Paul is speaking of the same sort of men in Moses time, which no doubt were "End Times" for Caleb and Joshua. Were these magicians not men who were professing to be like Moses, in the same way there were men who were professing to be like Paul, "Transforming themselves" into prophets of God? (Ex. 7)

Jesus even speaks to this in Matt. 6, where HE warns about the "many" who frequent the Synagogues and man-made shrines of worship to do their good deeds to be seen by men, and pray and ring their church bells to be heard of men.

Even Eve was placed by God into a world in which existed other voices who professed to know God, having a form of godliness but promoting love of self over love of God.

Jesus promoted the same teaching as Paul, in fact, I would say Paul's teaching came from the Christ in the first place, "Be ye not therefore like unto them".

2 Cor. 6: 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

We are all a drunk driver, a blood clot or even a bullet away from the end of our mortal life. As Jesus Himself teaches, "
Then Jesus said unto them, My time is not yet come: but your time is alway ready.

I didn't think this way until I turned away from this world's religious system and "Yielded myself" a servant to God's Righteousness.

Since then I have come to see why Peter said:

2 Pet. 3: 13 Nevertheless we, (These would be those Paul speaks to who were the servants of sin, but have repented and have been renewed in the spirit of their minds and are now servants of God's Righteousness, the New Man Yes? ) according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be "found of him" in peace, without spot, and blameless.

Given my time on earth is always near the end, as Jesus Teaches, I am no doubt, in the End Times Paul speaks to.