Pentecostals

[stormdancer0]

Hmmm.... by coincidence, I use the title “seeker of truth.”

Barry,
What do you call a person from the church who opposes the Holy Spirit by being a distracter and critic, who merely claims to be a “seeker of truth,” but who forces truth to conform with predisposed thought?
I think there is a word for it.... hmm.... what could it be? What are you getting at?

Well, whatever that word is.... do you believe you truly have demonstrated I am whatever that is by this thread,
-in that I am in error for verifying truth by comparing experience to Scripture;
-in that I refuse to add to Scripture, but believe God speaking to us today is for comfort, edification, and exhortation, by I Corinthians 14:3.

Barry,
Have you personally had revelations from God that go beyond Scripture? Did you write down what was revealed? Have you submitted what you wrote to a Bible publisher, such as Nelson Publishers, for additions to follow the book of Revelation? I'm curious – what was their response? How they assessed the new scripture could be a real indication of something.

Somehow, I can't find anywhere in scripture where Christ was ever sarcastic. Ironic, yes, but not sarcastic.

Can we stop nipping at each other, Please?

 

[MPaul]

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[MPaul]

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[BarryK]

I am both a Protestant and Pentecostal. I am also a Christian -- Christian, Protestant, Pentecostal. It is like someone from New York is both an American and a New Yorker. Or it is like a baseball player for the Yankees is an American, a New Yorker, and a Yankee.


The fact that I am a Protestant does not mean I am not a Pentecostal, anymore than it could be said a person is not an American, because he is a New Yorker, or that a person is not a New Yorker because he is a Yankee.

I accept the basic tenets of the Reformation that define all Protestants, and none of them contradict being a Pentecostal. In reading the statement of faith of any Pentecostal Church, they uphold the basic tenets of the Reformation -- Oneness Pentecostals, perhaps, being the exception in denying the Trinity.

So... your response adds no support whatsoever to your position, and neither does it in any way refute mine. This kind of answer appears merely as a method to avoid dealing with the true issues raised in the thread.

I have no interest in refuting or debating anybody here, ( with the execption of those people from Utah who follow a "different Jesus" over in the other sub forum, and the reason for that is to try to pull them out of that mess theat they are in)
if you seek such things you may want to investigate weather a house divided will or will not stand

 

[tturt]

This pertains to what I think the thread is about -

Of course, there are a lot of Scriptures about lifting our hands, clapping, etc. but that's not acceptable in most churches either.

Some of my Baptists friends tell me when we get to heaven, they're going to worship with us - PHs. So in their hearts, some would like more freedom.

Believers are so easily offended including us - Phs. I remember hearing a minister say - "you don't have to cry big tears like the PHs do." I was so surprised that someone would be offended by tears. Then I had to not be offended by his statement.

Well many, if not most, do not want worship to be like David's. II Sam 6:... danced before the LORD with all his might,..." and I don't see where David was lead by Yahweh to do that but his praise was pleasing to Him.

It's totally ok, to yell at a game and a million other expressions of joy but not when we're in church. It's the same thing with speaking in tongues, if it just wasn't what it is. You know instead if a halo appeared, no that wouldn't work. If an angel appeared, no, that definitely wouldn't be acceptable. If -

I'm just having trouble thinking of any emotional response to anything Godly that would be acceptable to every believer.

 

[MPaul]

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[BarryK]

This pertains to what I think the thread is about -

Of course, there are a lot of Scriptures about lifting our hands, clapping, etc. but that's not acceptable in most churches either.

Some of my Baptists friends tell me when we get to heaven, they're going to worship with us - PHs. So in their hearts, some would like more freedom.

Believers are so easily offended including us - Phs. I remember hearing a minister say - "you don't have to cry big tears like the PHs do." I was so surprised that someone would be offended by tears. Then I had to not be offended by his statement.

Well many, if not most, do not want worship to be like David's. II Sam 6:... danced before the LORD with all his might,..." and I don't see where David was lead by Yahweh to do that but his praise was pleasing to Him.

It's totally ok, to yell at a game and a million other expressions of joy but not when we're in church. It's the same thing with speaking in tongues, if it just wasn't what it is. You know instead if a halo appeared, no that wouldn't work. If an angel appeared, no, that definitely wouldn't be acceptable. If -

I'm just having trouble thinking of any emotional response to anything Godly that would be acceptable to every believer.

that would be the religious spirit infiltraiting and corrupting the EKKLESIA
somehow, with al the emphasis on sermonizing and the "rules" of homoletics (created and enforced by man) we have totally forgotten that "The Kingdom of heaven is not in word but in power" ( 1 Corinthians 2:4-5, 4:20)

 

[tturt]

So what are acceptable ways to respond to His power?

Reading about groups in the 1800's? who would circulate and listen to all the local sermons then meet to evaluate them. Can't remember what they were called. But they seemed to consider themselves the Scriptural experts.

Actually we have the same thing today with the media. But sometimes we don't listen to the entire sermon, just a sound bite will do for some. Others only require the person's name or denomination to step up on their "expert" soap box.

 

[lilmissmontana]

So what are acceptable ways to respond to His power?

Matthew 18:3
Jesus explains greatness

And said, Verily I say unto you, Ex-
cept ye be converted, and become as little
children, ye shall not enter into the king-
dom of heaven.

Psalm 131:2
humility before the Lord

Surely I have behaved and quieted myself,
as a child that is weaned of his mother:
my soul is even as a weaned child.

Mark 10:14
Jesus blesses children

But when Jesus saw it, he was much
displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the
little children to come unto me, and forbid
them not: for os such is the kingdom of
God.

Luke 18:16
Jesus receives the children

But Jesus called them untoo him, and
said, Suffer little children to come unto
me, and forbid them not: for of such is
the kingdom of God.

note: suffer = allow

children are teachable ... their ears are open ... their eyes are open ... their ego is minimal ... they're humble and eager ... they rarely need to put someone else's light out to shine or tread others under in the race ... they are simple and joyful in the journey ... always mindful of something bigger and more grand then themselves ... not lost to the filth and depression of the world ... still able to see the Light so clearly ... children soak up learning and understanding ... but the main thing is humble and teachable ... until those two things are understood, it'll be a rocky road responding to His power ...

jmview
lilmiss

 

[tturt]

Yes

 

[BarryK]

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[BarryK]

So what are acceptable ways to respond to His power?

Reading about groups in the 1800's? who would circulate and listen to all the local sermons then meet to evaluate them. Can't remember what they were called. But they seemed to consider themselves the Scriptural experts.

Actually we have the same thing today with the media. But sometimes we don't listen to the entire sermon, just a sound bite will do for some. Others only require the person's name or denomination to step up on their "expert" soap box.

in my own opinion, and merely just my own opinion, FLAT ON YER FACE!!!, but that is only my opinion

concerning these "heresey hunters", they have allways been around. these are the guys that sawed Isaiah in half on the steps of the temple, between the Bronze Lever and the Holy Place, these are the guys who convinced the rest of the Sanhedren that Yeshua was a blasphemer, that Stephen needed to be stoned, and so on, and so on, and so on.

for some reason the have conme to the conclusion that Father can act only in a way that is acceptable to them and their worldviews, that His actions are limited to being only as such that fits within their theological parameters. in other words, these folks pretend to be able to constrain the Lord God Almighty by their oun understanding of Who they want Him to be

it is hard to determine where the pride stops and the religious sprit starts.

that is why i said "flat on your face" earlier
it is hard to be prideful when you are flat on your face before the Holy One of Isereal

 

[Yitzchak]

There are people who think that experiencing the presence of the Spirit somehow makes them something special – and when they cannot experience an outpouring of the Spirit, they create an outpouring of emotion. That is a key in discerning what is fake – are people just using what they claim is an outpouring of the Spirit to uplift themselves as being something above others and with no blessing coming to others? However, some people merely delude themselves with emotion because they actually do thirst for God, but they do not know how to empty themselves and make way for the Spirit – but their true time will come.

I found this to be an interesting post. I have experienced an outpouring of The Holy Spirit several times over the years. Each time it has been an encouragement and a blessing for me. I have friends and aquaintances who were at the same mettings and some of them were blessed and edifyed and yet some seemed like they got something weird out of it.

At first I was surprised by this. But then I realised that The Bible is a true revelation from God and yet people have all sorts of responses to the Bible , also. There are people who deepen their relationship with God through reading the Bible and interacting with the truth found there. But there are some who actaully use a twisting of the Bible to promote false ideas. some are changed by what they read and still others seem uneffected and go on with their life the same way as before.

There are people that I know who were at the same altar that I was during these moves of the Spirit and it seems like they had all kinds of issues that I cannot relate to. I have seen people bragging about their experiences to puff themselves up and I have seen people acused of bragging who , in my view , were just excited about what God had done.

Anyway , since people use the Bible to puff themselves up , I don't think that we can conclude that the Bible is fake based upon people's selfish responses to the Bible. Neither can we conlude that about a move of The Holy Spirit. One thing that is abundantly clear to me is that people still retain their power of choice even in the face of a powerful move of God. Even if the momentum of it carries them for a few hours or days , ultimately , they choose for themselves how to respond.

 

[MPaul]

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[Yitzchak]

Indeed, there can be a true outpouring of the Holy Spirit at a meeting, with some people there still faking it due to being misinformed. Most people may be actually experiencing the Spirit, but that does not mean every person is. Finding one example of a non-genuine reaction does not mean all the people there are not genuine. Finding one example of a genuine reaction does not mean all the people there are genuine.

Agreed. In fact , I have witnessed this in person many times.

 

[MPaul]

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[Yitzchak]

Indeed, when Satan challenged Christ at Luke 4:1-14, he did so in part as an expert in Scripture. But Christ responded by being a greater expert in Scripture.

However, when the disciples received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit at Acts chp. 2, some people questioned what was going on based on experience, Acts 2:13. But the Baptism of the Holy Spirit was confirmed as what was occurring by Scripture, Acts 2:15-21.

So true believers use Scripture to confirm experience, which at times requires expertise, while others play games with being an expert with Scripture. However, at times the the true experts can be identified by their sense of humility.
“The writer has not a single doubt but that Brother Seymour has more power with God, and more power from God, than all his critics in and out of this city. His strength is in his conscious weakness, and lowliness before God; and, so long as he maintains this attitude, the power of God will, no doubt, continue to flow through him."
A. S. Worrell, The Apostolic Faith, February-March, 1907.

This is really good stuff. I am being edifyed and encouraged by this post. Study the scriptures and be humble. Good teaching /preaching here.

 

[MPaul]

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[lilmissmontana]

yes, it would be nice to see more emphasis on the power of the Word ... for the record ... this person believes there is a concentrated effort in this forum for just that ... so disagrees there is a lack of effort (in case someone thinks that) ... can't make people be what we think they should ... and that's most likely a good thing ... God doesn't see things the way we do ... I just try not to discount the efforts of others ... especially those not of our 'approval' ... and to post more scripture than opinion ... but that's just my opinion ...

 

[byhisstripes]

yes, it would be nice to see more emphasis on the power of the Word ... for the record ... this person believes there is a concentrated effort in this forum for just that ... so disagrees there is a lack of effort (in case someone thinks that) ... can't make people be what we think they should ... and that's most likely a good thing ... God doesn't see things the way we do ... I just try not to discount the efforts of others ... especially those not of our 'approval' ... and to post more scripture than opinion ... but that's just my opinion ...