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Pentecostals

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Yitzchak

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Pentecostals have always had a reputation for being a little bit wild in their services. The funny thing is the offense that some have at this seems to be mostly an American or western response. In places like Africa and Latin America , they seem to be culturally more accepting of emotional behavior in church...


YouTube - Revival in Kansas City



Are you too dignified for this ? I think I might be. Is it o.k with you that God relates to some churches this way ?



YouTube - YOUTH REVIVAL in Colombia
 
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Yitzchak

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Does anyone else have a fear of God about these kind of things? I know I do. I am very very slow to speak in a critical way.

What do you suppose it looks like for someone to take down the walls and really give their whole heart to God ? Watch some romance movies or read some books about it. Or how about politics . Watch the news and see people out in the streets waving banners and shouting at protests.

Someone made the statment that jeuss came ot make us dangerous. Dangerous to the devil's kingdom , that is. Are we tamed and dignified ?

I say jump right in with both feet. I am praying for God to help me take down my walls and really go for it . Not trying to put up more walls to the moving of the Spirit.

I think that these videos are probably what it looked like at azusa street. After 25 years in the Pentecostal church , I have seen people from all over the world respond to the Holy Spirit and it is often like these videos.
 
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BarryK

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Does anyone else have a fear of God about these kind of things? I know I do. I am very very slow to speak in a critical way.

What do you suppose it looks like for someone to take down the walls and really give their whole heart to God ? Watch some romance movies or read some books about it. Or how about politics . Watch the news and see people out in the streets waving banners and shouting at protests.

Someone made the statment that jeuss came ot make us dangerous. Dangerous to the devil's kingdom , that is. Are we tamed and dignified ?

I say jump right in with both feet. I am praying for God to help me take down my walls and really go for it . Not trying to put up more walls to the moving of the Spirit.

I think that these videos are probably what it looked like at azusa street. After 25 years in the Pentecostal church , I have seen people from all over the world respond to the Holy Spirit and it is often like these videos.

Each and every time there is a new and powerful outpouring of The Holy Spirit, there are the detractors and critics.
Unfortunatly the ones who do much of the opposing are from "the church"

so many members of The Body keep on expecting the holy Spirit to be some sort of "retro Spirit" going back to whatever he soverignly has done before"

the last time i checked our God is a CREATIVE God
He is the one who says "Behold, Ido a new thing"

He is not a God who backtracks, or diminishes.

There are many who claim to be s "seeker of truth", and yet somehow have a predisposed what the TRUTH will conform to
they seem to forget that THE TRUTH IS A PERSON
"I AM the way, I AM The TRUTH, I Am the life"

Jesus wants people who are TOTALLYU abansoned to HIM
He wants people wo are not concerned about people pleasing
He wants people who do not concern themselves with the man made ruls of "logic" and "hermenuitics" and man made "theologies"
He wants people who are not afraid of the Religious Spirits
he wants people who TRUST HIM ENTIRELY!!!

personally i have no problem being made a fool for Christs sake
 
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Builder_Bob

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Are you advocating that Pentecostals abandon the foundational principle of the Reformation upheld by all Protestants – Sola Scriptura? If our experiences should not be confirmed by Scripture, then to what extent would you assert that any subjective and arbitrary assessment of personal experience can be upheld as the equivalent of Scripture? The references in Scripture to a “new thing” relate to establishing a “new covenant.” Would you go so far as to say that by the testimony of personal experience a third covenant can be established?

It does seem there are a number of Christian entities which have essentially created a third covenant by what they have added to Scripture. They have special rules of logic and hermeneutics to create a “new” theology. However, what the Reformation was about – was to use plain principles of language interpretation, basic hermeneutics, to return to the truth of the Bible, to go back to what the church was before, at its beginning. And that is what the Azusa Street Revival was about – to return to the New Testament church.

(I wonder – are you the BarryK who wrote the software for wireless connections in Puppy Linux?)



I went to Toronto to see the Father loves you conference in I think 2004?
The first day of the conference I was there early for intercession I met a man from the Netherlands I asked him why he came to this conference so far away and he said to be before the lord. He asked me the same question and I told him I came to buy more oil for my lamp, as in the ten virgins Five were wise and went for more oil, and the other five did not.
I came for more, and as I said that the man said lets pray on this so as we started to pray the holy spirit fell on both of us and he began to prophesy and I began to laugh so hard the strength was drained from my body and I slid out of the chair onto the floor and couldn't move I could feel the fresh infilling of the holy spirit through me, it felt like a heavy comforter was layed upon me. as I layed there laughing uncontrolably the man layed his hand on me and the samething happened to him.
Revival is a time of refreshing and we need it along lifes way.
I went to ministry school there in 2005 leadership school and the signs and wonders conference 2005. Not once did I see anything wrong about how any that were there display their freedom in the spirit wrong, what ever it takes cry out for more is what God wants to see, not people to arrogent to show enough emotion to get their point acrossed to the lord. What is wrong with that? I believe it's the biggest reason people don't recieve from God cause their to bound up to cry out. If you need something from God bad enough you will cry out till you recieve.
God met my financial need to go to school their under imposible odds, then gave me money just before leaving to go home not knowing I would have to pay someone to get from the conference center to the bus station, "He" met all my needs.
I today look back and I know without a daught God had me there for a reason.
The fresh oil brings revelations of His love for his children, and we need that. We need to be drawn deeper into his love and revival does that.
I first recieved the infilling of the holy spirit with the evidence of speaking in other tongues in 1976, I waited along time for this refreshing and now I see things in a whole new light.
 
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Builder_Bob

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Bob,

That all sounds wonderful. But... I only commented in this thread on assessing the genuineness of an outpouring of the Holy Spirit according to principles of Scripture. That was the only point I made -- if someone has doubts, compare the outpouring to Scripture.

Like me:
If you go to one of these revivals with a need and you recieve it's genuine.
 
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BarryK

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Are you advocating that Pentecostals abandon the foundational principle of the Reformation upheld by all Protestants – Sola Scriptura?

If our experiences should not be confirmed by Scripture, then to what extent would you assert that any subjective and arbitrary assessment of personal experience can be upheld as the equivalent of Scripture? The references in Scripture to a “new thing” relate to establishing a “new covenant.” Would you go so far as to say that by the testimony of personal experience a third covenant can be established?

It does seem there are a number of Christian entities which have essentially created a third covenant by what they have added to Scripture. They have special rules of logic and hermeneutics to create a “new” theology. However, what the Reformation was about – was to use plain principles of language interpretation, basic hermeneutics, to return to the truth of the Bible, to go back to what the church was before, at its beginning. And that is what the Azusa Street Revival was about – to return to the New Testament church.

if you are a protestant, then by all means coninue to abide by thier doctrines, however i am not a protestant, i am a christian

if you believe that scripture and revelation is cliosed, that you are a cessationalist, you continue to do so, but please dont claim to be"sola scripture" and maintion that Father still speaks to his people today.

yes we are to test the spirits ( for there are indeed spirits other than the Holy Spirit) and we do test them according to the patterns set before, but the Biblical record is an account of God setting new precedent again and again.

take a look at Malachi 3:6 and hebrews 13:8 and then tell me why God has stopped setting new precedents

what has hermeunitics, man made rules and regulations, to do with revelation, with the holy Spirit who will "teach us all things"?

why do you need to interpert5 what God has plainly said?

Why wold God, who is a foward going God, The God who is the one who proclaims again and again that he "will do a new thing" the one who promised again and again "greater Glory" want to regress to the infance of his church.

Dos not Father want "Helios" sons rather than infant children?

(I wonder – are you the BarryK who wrote the software for wireless connections in Puppy Linux?)
nope, wrong guy
 
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byhisstripes

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I have to say that I have been raised in the AOG church and our services are not like that at all. However, I went to a church in California and I was the only white person there, we had so much fun. They really got into praise and worship, they grabbed my hand (I was about 14) my mom and sister would not go with me so they just dropped me off and then came back to pick me up after it got over.And they took me dancing down the isles with me. I have to say that if my family would have went with me I probably would have not joined them so even though I am bummed they missed it, I am also glad because I got to enjoy the moving of the Spirit and I had so much fun. Those people really know how to groove! :D
 
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BereanTodd

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10 The brothers immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived they went into the Jewish synagogue. 11Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.

Yes God still speaks today but He does not contradict Himself, He is the same yesterday today and forever. Scripture as our rule and guide of faith is a SCRIPTURAL principle. God does not change. Experience is great and God does move in miraculous ways today, but He will not contradict His word and our experience should always be measured in light of that which has been revealed to us and given us by the Holy Spirit - namely the Bible.
 
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BarryK

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Barry,

You are confusing two entirely different biblical concepts. The principles of revelation at the level of Scripture, known as “special revelation,” are set out in the Old Testament and are used for how the canon is established. You can find a summary of what is involved with determining revelation at the Scriptural level on my website in the link, “How Protestants Establish the Canon of Scripture.”

Here is a quote from the article on what is basically involved.
"When the Hebrew people escaped from Egypt, at the base of Mount Sinai the Lord promised to rise up prophets in the manner of Moses to act as his spokesman. Their writings were placed in the Ark of the Covenant, located in the Holy of Holies section of the Tabernacle, to indicate their sacred status. The prophets were verified by their ability to perform signs and wonders and to foretell the future, while having a message consistent with prior Scripture. (See -- Deuteronomy 13:1-3; 18:15-22; 31:9. To satisfy the test of predicting the future, the prophet’s gift had to be confirmed in his life time, but once his status was accepted, his writings were regarded as the inspired Word of God, and the more distant events he referenced also were held as truth. In the New Testament, an apostle is the equivalent of a prophet, but with a mission reaching beyond the Jewish community."

However, God speaking to us today is basically set out by I Corinthians 14:3 and I Thessalonians 5:21,22. These verses note that prophecy today is for personal edification, exhortation, comfort. These messages are not placed at the level of Scripture, and indeed, to test the messages in proving them, one must rely on Scripture.

I Corinthians 14:3
But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

I Thessalonians 5:20,21
Despise not prophesyings. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

In regard to whether the canon is closed today... since the writing of the New Testament, there has been no revelation meeting the test set out by God in the Old Testament revealing his plan and at the level of Scripture. Theoretically, it could happen, but so far it has not. One does wonder about the two witnesses of Revelation.

There has been no one since New Testament times who has met the Old Testament test on how a qualified prophet is verified to set out new Scripture. Some people have maintained they do have messages from God at this level, but they do not meet the test (which includes being Jewish, Romans 3:2), and they are normally regarded as heretics and kooks. I know of no church that officially places these people or their writings at the level of Scripture.

My identity as a Protestant is important as it is firmly based on the belief that Scripture alone is the ultimate authority. I receive messages from God regularly, but only for my personal guidance or to assist in the blessings of others, and these absolutely cannot be placed at the level of Scripture. The Reformation primarily came about due to upholding plain meaning hermeneutics, or that is – in upholding that the basic principles of language are the true basis for interpreting the Bible. This is not man made theology, but merely refers to how the nature of language exists. However, to deny plain meaning hermeneutics only means that another system must be set in place for interpretation, and these other systems are what is man made for self-serving purposes.


hmm, it appears i was wrong, I had made the assumptin that you are a pentecostal rather than a protestant, but i now see that you are indeed a protestant, rather than a pentecostal, sorry about the confustion
 
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BarryK

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10 The brothers immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived they went into the Jewish synagogue. 11Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.

Yes God still speaks today but He does not contradict Himself, He is the same yesterday today and forever. Scripture as our rule and guide of faith is a SCRIPTURAL principle. God does not change. Experience is great and God does move in miraculous ways today, but He will not contradict His word and our experience should always be measured in light of that which has been revealed to us and given us by the Holy Spirit - namely the Bible.

indded, the scriptural principals still abide today, but the circumstance do not.
for example ( and i paint with a very broad brush here, so please give me some grace here)

El Shaddai established His covenant initality with a nomadic people. eventually this nomadic peoles became agriculturalists, and eventually established cities. their circumstanmces afre quite different than ours, and many of the specifics do not apply to us today, as we live in an entirely different culture, BUT the principas still apply to us today.

we can not look for identical circumstances to compare what Father is doing today to what He has done thousands of years ago, but when we apply the principals, we still have a canon to compare to.

whe we take greek (i.e. "western" i.e. "pagan" rules of logic, and other pagan systems of thought) standards and apply them to an oriential ( i.e. "eastern" system of thought) you will not get a good comparison

(BTW the term "oriental" is rooted in the cartogaphers lexicon, in todays maps the "orient" is the north, back in the day, specif8cly the days of the crusades, the "orient" was JERUSALEM, which happened to be in the EAST of where the crusaders were departing from, hence the "east" became known as "the orient")
 
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