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Penguin Article PUBLISHED!

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Floodnut

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I just got an article published on Warm Water Penguins. It is a response to the recent discovery of giant penguin fossils in Peru. Where did penguins live before the Flood, when conditions on the Earth were very likely tropical and temperate throughout? My article has some suggestions. It is in one of the On-line journals of a major creationist organization. http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/5191/
I am also hoping to get a book published eventually, on the WORLD OF THE FLOOD.

The whole progress of the Penguins' Evolutionerrory development is thrown into disarray by the recent discovery. The biblical model is left in good condition. And now they are finding more soft tissue that is millions of years old. Recently microbes that are allegedly EIGHT million years old were brought back to life! And NON-PETRIFIED trees have been discovered in coal beds in Hungary, and then there is the BLOOD from dinosaurs supposedly more than 60 million years old.

Kiss a frog and it turns into a handsome prince: THAT IS A FAIRY TALE, but The Entire universe from a pinpoint of material, that is SCIENCE?
 
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FallingWaters

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I just got an article published on Warm Water Penguins. It is a response to the recent discovery of giant penguin fossils in Peru. Where did penguins live before the Flood, when conditions on the Earth were very likely tropical and temperate throughout? My article has some suggestions. It is in one of the On-line journals of a major creationist organization. http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/5191/
I am also hoping to get a book published eventually, on the WORLD OF THE FLOOD.

The whole progress of the Penguins' Evolutionerrory development is thrown into disarray by the recent discovery. The biblical model is left in good condition. And now they are finding more soft tissue that is millions of years old. Recently microbes that are allegedly EIGHT million years old were brought back to life! And NON-PETRIFIED trees have been discovered in coal beds in Hungary, and then there is the BLOOD from dinosaurs supposedly more than 60 million years old.

Kiss a frog and it turns into a handsome prince: THAT IS A FAIRY TALE, but The Entire universe from a pinpoint of material, that is SCIENCE?
Woo-hoo!! Good for you!!:clap:
 
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Mallon

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Congrats on having your article published online, Floodnut. It made for an interesting read. It raised a few questions in my mind, however, and not having researched penguins as much as yourself, I was hoping you might be able to provide some answers:

1) It seems every time Galápagos penguins are discussed, the Humboldt Current is inevitably mentioned. This is a cold-water current that runs from the antarctic up to the Galápagos, in which Galapagos penguins spend most of their time. Why do you make no reference to this in your article when it has such strong bearing on penguin evolution and biogeography?

2) You make mention of the "evolutionary view" of penguins in your article, but never cite any of the original research. What studies are you referring to when you mention that "penguins are believed by evolutionists to have originated in the Antarctic and developed as they radiated out from there"? I would be curious to read them for myself.

3) From the little bit of reading that I've done, it is mentioned quite often that Galápagos penguins have a hard time keeping cool on equatorial islands. If you feel the Galápagos penguins originated on these islands, why do you think God would have created them with so much insulation?

4) Related question: Antarctic penguins have a counter-current exchange system in their extremities to prevent heat loss. Do Galápagos penguins possess this system? If yes, why would they need it if they were originally adapted to warm climates? If no, would this imply the evolution of "new information" in antarctic penguins?

5) Are penguins a created "kind"? Are they birds?

6) Do penguins have the "breath of life" in them given that they are not primarily terrestrial?

7) If "[m]ost creationist models of the pre-Flood world suggest that the planet’s climate was generally temperate and tropical throughout", as you suggest in your article, then what is the problem with having penguins living in Antarctica prior to the Flood and adapting to the cooling climate in situ?

8) As someone who has gone through AIG's peer-review process, what was it like? Was your article reviewed by any penguin researchers? What sort of feedback did you receive?

Just a few questions that came to mind as I read your article. I am not in the least bit interested in debating these points, but I thought I would throw them out there to get your input.
 
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KerrMetric

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Interesting:

Jim Brenneman

Biography

Jim has been involved in Bible teaching since 1972, in weekly study groups, seminars, and conferences. To enhance his understanding of the Scriptures, he learned Hebrew and Greek. Although he has no formal qualifications, Jim has taught numerous classes in biblical Hebrew and biblical archaeology, and has directed two study tours in Israel.
Jim asserts that the natural evidence simply screams for a world-wide flood—the eroded topography, the strata, and the fossils. He says, ‘I can’t look at these records of the Flood—in Scripture and in nature, without envisioning the cataclysmic devastation that must have occurred. Most people have notions of the Flood that are far too mild.’
No longer in full-time ministry, Jim works as a seafood manager in a grocery store and writes high school sports stories for his local newspaper. He continues to work toward understanding and explaining what it was like in the world of the Flood, distilling ideas from Scripture and from scientific articles in order to bring that ancient world to light. Jim also heads a ‘Flood Film Project’ which is currently laying groundwork and gathering together creationist expertise in the hope of one day seeing an accurate high-grade movie made about the ‘mother of all disasters.’
 
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Floodnut

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Thank you for bringing to the fore my brief biography. There is even more information about me at my website, www.floodfilm.com
I am a promoter of the the Bible and the truth of Creation as affirmed by Jesus, John, Paul, Peter, and Jude in the New Testament.
 
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laptoppop

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One thing that I hope you would bring to light in the film is that while it is likely there were hypercanes and tsunamis etc. etc. the size of the earth also means that there would be areas of calm. Also that the conditions in a particular location would vary over time. Both of these understandings are crucial in understanding how the geologic strata were formed -- that there were times of erosion, times of deposition, times of settling, mudslides both above and below water, volcanic activity, etc. For he who has eyes to see, the geologic column says much about the flood! Of course, I'd buy a ticket in any case. ;)
 
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Floodnut

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Congrats on having your article published online, Floodnut. It made for an interesting read. It raised a few questions in my mind, however, and not having researched penguins as much as yourself, I was hoping you might be able to provide some answers:
Actually, you may have researched penguins more than I have. You seem to have more answers than I do.

1) It seems every time Galápagos penguins are discussed, the Humboldt Current is inevitably mentioned. This is a cold-water current that runs from the antarctic up to the Galápagos, in which Galapagos penguins spend most of their time. Why do you make no reference to this in your article when it has such strong bearing on penguin evolution and biogeography?
I did not make reference to the current because I was not "discussing" Galapagos penguins, rather, I just mentioned them as an example of a variety that lived in warmer climates.
2) You make mention of the "evolutionary view" of penguins in your article, but never cite any of the original research. What studies are you referring to when you mention that "penguins are believed by evolutionists to have originated in the Antarctic and developed as they radiated out from there"? I would be curious to read them for myself.
Since I dropped out of college about 4 years ago I no longer have access to the scholarly literature, but there is a plethora of information on the net, and the source of the study mentioned in the article upon which I was commenting had information in some published materials. If you will go to the LA Times article you will see some names of scientists who specialize in penguins, along with the authority who was originally commenting on the fossil finds. Do a net search on those individuals to satisfy you curiosity about penguins, or go to any on-line dictionary or encyclopedia or various natural history museum web-sites and you will find more info. Some might recommend wiki but it has come into disrepute of late.

3) From the little bit of reading that I've done, it is mentioned quite often that Galápagos penguins have a hard time keeping cool on equatorial islands. If you feel the Galápagos penguins originated on these islands, why do you think God would have created them with so much insulation?
I miss the part in my article where I suggest that the penguins "originated" on those islands. Their ancestors very likely originated on the Ark, and prior to that they had been created by God with mechanisms suitable for thriving in the pre-Flood world.

4) Related question: Antarctic penguins have a counter-current exchange system in their extremities to prevent heat loss. Do Galápagos penguins possess this system? If yes, why would they need it if they were originally adapted to warm climates? If no, would this imply the evolution of "new information" in antarctic penguins?
Like I said, you seem to know so much more about modern-day penguins than I do.

5) Are penguins a created "kind"? Are they birds?
I am not sure whether we can insist that the 30 or so modern species of penguin are all of one distinct kind, or whether they may be descendants of multiple pairs of kinds. On the other hand, it is possible that all the present varieties are descended from a single biblical kind from which other types of fowl may also have originated.
The taxonomy of the Bible is not the same as modern classification systems. For instance the creation account specifies "birds of the air," which seems to speak of creatures capable of flight. So I am guessing that since they are obviously birds in the current descriptive methodology, I am guessing that you are asking where they would fit in the biblical scheme of things.

6) Do penguins have the "breath of life" in them given that they are not primarily terrestrial?
Penguins have the breath of life, but as you note they are not primarily terrestrial. Frogs and other amphibians are perplexing enigmas in that while they do have lungs in their adult stage, they have a gill stage also, as young. Also they are able to survive long periods of time as adults, buried in mud, taking in oxygen by absorption. As to penguins, I am not sure whether or not they had to be taken on the Ark, but if I had to chose, I would guess that their parents were on board.

7) If "[m]ost creationist models of the pre-Flood world suggest that the planet’s climate was generally temperate and tropical throughout", as you suggest in your article, then what is the problem with having penguins living in Antarctica prior to the Flood and adapting to the cooling climate in situ?
If Antarctica existed prior to the Flood, even as a tropical or subtropical region of the land mass, then all of the animals thereon perished in the universal Flood as the Scripture plainly declares. Unless the penguins' ancestors survived outside the Ark as aquatic animals that did not need to be on board the Ark, then it is possible that they adapted to the increasingly harsh conditions in the new world after the Flood.

8) As someone who has gone through AIG's peer-review process, what was it like? Was your article reviewed by any penguin researchers? What sort of feedback did you receive?
AiG? Peer-review process? Penguin researchers? I was writing about what conditions might have been like in the world of the Flood. My article was reviewed by people who believe in the world wide Flood and the biblical account of Creation. The article is not in AiG, but in CMI.

just a few questions that came to mind as I read your article. I am not in the least bit interested in debating these points, but I thought I would throw them out there to get your input.
 
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Jase

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One thing that I hope you would bring to light in the film is that while it is likely there were hypercanes and tsunamis etc. etc. the size of the earth also means that there would be areas of calm. Also that the conditions in a particular location would vary over time. Both of these understandings are crucial in understanding how the geologic strata were formed -- that there were times of erosion, times of deposition, times of settling, mudslides both above and below water, volcanic activity, etc. For he who has eyes to see, the geologic column says much about the flood! Of course, I'd buy a ticket in any case. ;)
Out of curiosity, what is a hypercane? I'm assuming a term to refer to a hurricane stronger than Category 5? And wouldn't the Ark have been hit by Tsunamis? Presumably there would have been hundreds of tsunamis around the world.
 
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Floodnut

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It might be interesting to start a thread on weather and sea conditions during the Flood. Most animals including most penguin types and other aquatics would have been destroyed during the Flood from caustics, superheated steam, tsunamis, ash, volcanism, cosmic impacts, and other effects of the cataclysm. For this reason I suspect that animals that could not survive without the healthy atmosphere very likely perished.
Scripture states specifically that all land animals were destroyed, that is those in whose nostrils was the breath of life. Apparently the only survivors were those that were in the Ark, those which the LORD God "remembered" or kept in mind, or cared for.
 
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Assyrian

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Out of curiosity, what is a hypercane? I'm assuming a term to refer to a hurricane stronger than Category 5? And wouldn't the Ark have been hit by Tsunamis? Presumably there would have been hundreds of tsunamis around the world.
Interestingly I think this is what the flood account is describing: Gen 7:19 Litv And the waters prevailed, exceedingly violent on the earth, and all the high mountains under the heavens were covered. 20 The waters prevailed, fifteen cubits upward, and the mountains were covered. I don't think this is Noah taking depth sounding from the ark in calm water where he could see the hilltops below and finding the water 15 cubits deep, but that waves 15 cubits high were washing over the hills.
 
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FallingWaters

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Interestingly I think this is what the flood account is describing: Gen 7:19 Litv And the waters prevailed, exceedingly violent on the earth, and all the high mountains under the heavens were covered. 20 The waters prevailed, fifteen cubits upward, and the mountains were covered. I don't think this is Noah taking depth sounding from the ark in calm water where he could see the hilltops below and finding the water 15 cubits deep, but that waves 15 cubits high were washing over the hills.
That's a very interesting way of looking at it.
Makes a lot of sense.
 
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Floodnut

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Interestingly I think this is what the flood account is describing: Gen 7:19 Litv And the waters prevailed, exceedingly violent on the earth, and all the high mountains under the heavens were covered. 20 The waters prevailed, fifteen cubits upward, and the mountains were covered. I don't think this is Noah taking depth sounding from the ark in calm water where he could see the hilltops below and finding the water 15 cubits deep, but that waves 15 cubits high were washing over the hills.
Assyrian, I am in conversation with an individual who imagines a mild gentle flooding of a single, low altitude super continent. Your translation of 7:19 will assist me in my discussions with him.

The guy I am talking with asserts that a post flood asteroid impact of massive proportions caused the continents to divide a few hundred years after the animals and Noah left the Ark (of course in the days of Peleg).

I see that GABAR MEOD could have the connotation of violence but it would be helpful for me to have a lexcial source. THANKS
 
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