PCUSA Amendment 14-F

[quigonj]

My theory on that is few people have the time to go, so GA becomes an assemblage of those with time and an agenda. Plus, as other conservative churches leave, we end up not only with higher per-capitas, but a much more pronounced tilt to the left.

I don't think that there's a movement to label us other than Christian, but it had come up.

 

[striger]

Lifelong virginity was considered a virtue by many Christians. I'm not an expert on that, but it's a pretty well-known part of the Catholic tradition.

Here's a review from women's point of view: http://www.haverford.edu/relg/faculty/amcguire/relg221b/castelli.pdf

Is homosexually part of pagan practices during the time of Christ? I mean were the apostles reffering to those practices only?

 

[BryanW92]

Is homosexually part of pagan practices during the time of Christ? I mean were the apostles reffering to those practices only?

That's generally how the pro-homosexuality clergy paints it, at least in the UMC and ELCA. I don't have any experience with PCUSA clergy to hear their justification for gay marriage and clergy.

 

[hedrick]

Is homosexually part of pagan practices during the time of Christ? I mean were the apostles reffering to those practices only?

That's a hard question to answer, because it depends upon what you mean. If you mean, was it always associated with something like temple prostitution, I think the answer is no. If you mean, did Jews consider it part of corrupt pagan behavior, I think the answer is yes.

But if you're interested in talking about what various Biblical references meant at the time and how we might regard them now, that's not a discussion CF is prepared to have. So I think it's a bad idea to pursue this here.

 

[striger]

That's generally how the pro-homosexuality clergy paints it, at least in the UMC and ELCA. I don't have any experience with PCUSA clergy to hear their justification for gay marriage and clergy.

I didn't know UMC allowed gay pastors or marry gays. How long has it been like that?

 

[hedrick]

I didn't know UMC allowed gay pastors or marry gays. How long has it been like that?

They don't. The UMC is the only major mainline denomination that doesn't. They have an unusual organization, which makes African churches voting members of the body that controls the church in the US. That inhibits change on this issue. But Bryan didn't say they have openly gay clergy, just that they have pro-gay clergy. They do.

I don't think the rules allow me to give the arguments that are used within the PCUSA.

 

[striger]

That's a hard question to answer, because it depends upon what you mean. If you mean, was it always associated with something like temple prostitution, I think the answer is no. If you mean, did Jews consider it part of corrupt pagan behavior, I think the answer is yes.

But if you're interested in talking about what various Biblical references meant at the time and how we might regard them now, that's not a discussion CF is prepared to have. So I think it's a bad idea to pursue this here.

I was reading a site that made some pretty good points. Here is something I've never heard of but perhaps the apostles were mainly talking about slaves.

"During the time in which the New Testament was written, the Roman conquerors of the region frequently and openly engaged in homosexual acts between themselves and boys. Such acts were also common between Roman men and their male slaves. These acts of non-consensual sex were considered normal and socially acceptable. They were, however, morally repulsive to Paul, as today they would be to everyone, gay and straight."
Found at The Bible Does NOT Condemn Homosexuality ? The NALT Christians Project

 

[BryanW92]

I didn't know UMC allowed gay pastors or marry gays. How long has it been like that?

They have allowed celibate gays (which they call "nonpracticing homosexuals") to become clergy for many years.

They permit gay marriage by their refusal to take any significant actions against the pastors who have conducted gay marriages in the last couple years.

 

[hedrick]

I was reading a site that made some pretty good points. Here is something I've never heard of but perhaps the apostles were mainly talking about slaves.

"During the time in which the New Testament was written, the Roman conquerors of the region frequently and openly engaged in homosexual acts between themselves and boys. Such acts were also common between Roman men and their male slaves. These acts of non-consensual sex were considered normal and socially acceptable. They were, however, morally repulsive to Paul, as today they would be to everyone, gay and straight."
Found at The Bible Does NOT Condemn Homosexuality ? The NALT Christians Project

I don't feel comfortable debating this issue here. I will just say that there are at least two questionable things in this quote.

 

[SinnerInTheHands]