What's the difference between the Presbyterian Church of America and the Presbyterian Church USA?
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Originally posted by Dorothyne
ok i'll bite. What is the difference?
Originally posted by Susan
The PCUSA is liberal and barely "Christian." I heard that one time they even had a worship service to "Sophia" an alleged "wisdom goddess." Also they support abortion and a myriad of other liberal beliefs.
Stay away if you want to keep your faith.
Originally posted by humblejoe
I find it very difficult to believe that a Presbyterian group would participate in such things.
Wisdom of Solomon, chapter 7
1: I also am mortal, like all men, a descendant of the first-formed child of earth; and in the womb of a mother I was molded into flesh,
2: within the period of ten months, compacted with blood, from the seed of a man and the pleasure of marriage.
3: And when I was born, I began to breathe the common air, and fell upon the kindred earth, and my first sound was a cry, like that of all.
4: I was nursed with care in swaddling cloths.
5: For no king has had a different beginning of existence;
6: there is for all mankind one entrance into life, and a common departure.
7: Therefore I prayed, and understanding was given me; I called upon God, and the spirit of wisdom came to me.
8: I preferred her to scepters and thrones, and I accounted wealth as nothing in comparison with her.
9: Neither did I liken to her any priceless gem, because all gold is but a little sand in her sight, and silver will be accounted as clay before her.
10: I loved her more than health and beauty, and I chose to have her rather than light, because her radiance never ceases.
11: All good things came to me along with her, and in her hands uncounted wealth.
12: I rejoiced in them all, because wisdom leads them; but I did not know that she was their mother.
13: I learned without guile and I impart without grudging; I do not hide her wealth,
14: for it is an unfailing treasure for men; those who get it obtain friendship with God, commended for the gifts that come from instruction.
15: May God grant that I speak with judgment and have thought worthy of what I have received, for he is the guide even of wisdom and the corrector of the wise.
16: For both we and our words are in his hand, as are all understanding and skill in crafts.
17: For it is he who gave me unerring knowledge of what exists, to know the structure of the world and the activity of the elements;
18: the beginning and end and middle of times, the alternations of the solstices and the changes of the seasons,
19: the cycles of the year and the constellations of the stars,
20: the natures of animals and the tempers of wild beasts, the powers of spirits and the reasonings of men, the varieties of plants and the virtues of roots;
21: I learned both what is secret and what is manifest,
22: for wisdom, the fashioner of all things, taught me. For in her there is a spirit that is intelligent, holy, unique, manifold, subtle, mobile, clear, unpolluted, distinct, invulnerable, loving the good, keen, irresistible,
23: beneficent, humane, steadfast, sure, free from anxiety, all-powerful, overseeing all, and penetrating through all spirits that are intelligent and pure and most subtle.
24: For wisdom is more mobile than any motion; because of her pureness she pervades and penetrates all things.
25: For she is a breath of the power of God, and a pure emanation of the glory of the Almighty; therefore nothing defiled gains entrance into her.
26: For she is a reflection of eternal light, a spotless mirror of the working of God, and an image of his goodness.
27: Though she is but one, she can do all things, and while remaining in herself, she renews all things; in every generation she passes into holy souls and makes them friends of God, and prophets;
28: for God loves nothing so much as the man who lives with wisdom.
29: For she is more beautiful than the sun, and excels every constellation of the stars. Compared with the light she is found to be superior,
30: for it is succeeded by the night, but against wisdom evil does not prevail.
Originally posted by Hewlett
I found it difficult to believe myself. But its true. Just go to PCUSA web site and search under "sophia".
Here is a link to the PCUSA website (pcusa.org) describing something about sophia:
http://www.pcusa.org/ga214/news/ga02049.htm
Makes you wonder.
Originally posted by Susan
Someone agreeing with goddess worship is a wolf amongst the flock. . .shall I say?
Actually, I think you and Susan are misconstruing what's actually going on with this "sophia" thing. As isshin stated, "sophia" means wisdom, not a goddess.
COLUMBUS, OH The Rev. Jane Adams Spahr, widely regarded as the No. 1 Voice of Sophia in the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), told a breakfast audience on June 18 about the many times she has encountered Sophia and heard her many voices.
"Meeting Sophia is like hearing the swish sound of the basketball through the net," she said. "No still small voice. The sound is big, yet soft like the swish."
She said that, when she "first met Sophia," she "felt known, like knowing God in a deeper way; and in that knowing, I felt free, alive, ready to be me in a whole new way."
Originally posted by Hewlett
I disagree that I am miscontruing what is actually going on. While its true the bible does personify wisdom as a woman, that does not justify or explain these "Sophia" encounters. I would argue these PCUSA women are dangerously misconstruing what is said it the bible. They may or may not intend to be involved in goddess worship. We certainly do not know what is in their hearts or minds.
But if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck I call it a duck.
Goddess worship may not be the intent these PCUSA ladies had. But, I think I have a good argument that it is the effect. If I am misconstruing what is going on it is also easy for young Christians, led by these PCUSA women, to also 'misconstrue' what they are doing, and believe sophia goddess worship is ok. In that way an unintended effect of the sophia encounter's is purposefull goddess worship by others.
Satan definitely has a way of distorting good christian motives (these women claim these encounters bring them closer to God) into working for him. I believe this sohpia worship does this. At the very least it takes their eyes off the Cross and away from Jesus.
Here is a portion of the PCUSA news article:
- http://www.pcusa.org/ga214/news/ga02049.htmShe said that, when she "first met Sophia," she "felt known, like knowing God in a deeper way; and in that knowing, I felt free, alive, ready to be me in a whole new way."
I understand what you think is happening in this situation, but I do not view it as "goddess worship". Where is the altar to this goddess? Where is her temple? Where are the "holy writings" dedicated to this deity? Where are the sacrifices? They are not worshipping a "goddess", but rather are actively engaging in the eternal wisdom of God. If you'll notice, the focus is on God:
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