Paying for sins

[goober3]

Jesus paid the price for our sins, past, present and future. Why does God punish us for our sins that we commit as christians in this life if God already received satisfaction at the cross?

 

[Jon_]

Jesus paid the price for our sins, past, present and future. Why does God punish us for our sins that we commit as christians in this life if God already received satisfaction at the cross?

Do not confuse God's active punishment for sins with his permitting of consequences. For instance, a possible consequence of fornication is an STD. God's punishment is really his qualified judgment of the world in the end time. He frequently visits punishment on the wicked in this day, but never on his elect. As to why we suffer "evil" even after receiving Christ, we can relate to Job's words:

(Job 2:10 KJV) But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.


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And Paul explains why these sufferings come upon us:

(Rom. 8:17 KJV) And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.


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The most important thing to take away is that God does not punish his elect for, as you have said, their sins are forgiven. Nevertheless, we must still suffer trials:

(James 1:2-3 KJV) My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; 3) Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

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Lastly, it should be noted that even temporal punishment is insufficient atonement for sins. This is necessarily true because otherwise the punishment visited upon the wicked would be sufficient to save their souls. There is nothing vindicating or justifying about punishment, it is the necessary consequence of disobedience. Even though we say that criminals who have served their time have "paid their debt to society," in truth, their debt is eternal. No amount of punishment is sufficient to "pay" for our sins apart from the atoning sacrifice of Christ.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[CoffeeSwirls]

Wrath and Discipline are two things. One is intended to destroy and the other corrects. I see the paying for sins that you mention as sanctification, which follows justification.

 

[goober3]

I have a friend who doesn't believe that God chastises christians, he believes that when bad things happens to christians it is because our faith was not strong enough or that the devil got the better of us. Maybe I am trying to make too "fine" a point or I am not getting across my point, but why does God chastise us? If we have to pay temporally for our sins, is this not paying for sins twice since Jesus already paid the price?

 

[goober3]

His question was, why consequences? Jesus aready paid for our sin. He knew according to our calvinist belief what sin we would commit so why pay temporally? I thought I would ask because most of you are alot more articulate and succint then I.

 

[Jon_]

His question was, why consequences? Jesus aready paid for our sin. He knew according to our calvinist belief what sin we would commit so why pay temporally? I thought I would ask because most of you are alot more articulate and succint then I.

Hm, I could answer this in a couple of different ways. Instead of presumptively choosing one, I will ask you which you think you would receive best.

Would you like to see Scriptures regarding the right and justice of God's sovereign actions? Would you like to see how chastening is effective to our walk? Or would you like a pastoral commentary on why we should live holy lives?

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[Lockheed]

I have a friend who doesn't believe that God chastises christians, he believes that when bad things happens to christians it is because our faith was not strong enough or that the devil got the better of us.

Your friend will have to explain the Scriptures that state that God "disciplines (chastises) those whom He loves". God's intention in disciplining His children is to sanctify them.

Maybe I am trying to make too "fine" a point or I am not getting across my point, but why does God chastise us? If we have to pay temporally for our sins, is this not paying for sins twice since Jesus already paid the price?

Chastisment/discipline is intended to sanctify, to remove the dross from the metal.

 

[goober3]

Your friend will have to explain the Scriptures that state that God "disciplines (chastises) those whom He loves". God's intention in disciplining His children is to sanctify them.



Chastisment/discipline is intended to sanctify, to remove the dross from the metal.

He skips over those verses or either ignores them totally. Says that is paying twice. What is the best way to explain this to him? I doubt that multiple verses would convince him. Very sectarian.

 

[Jon_]

He skips over those verses or either ignores them totally. Says that is paying twice. What is the best way to explain this to him? I doubt that multiple verses would convince him. Very sectarian.

Anyone who ignores any Scripture so that his point will stand is not upholding a Scriptural view.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[goober3]

Anyone who ignores any Scripture so that his point will stand is not upholding a Scriptural view.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

True, but you don't see the truth of scripture until God opens your eyes to see. I was brought up in the same tradition as my friend and you always believe that you are seeing the truth until the moment God actually reveals the truth of scripture. Then it is an "aha" moment. Please expound on why chastisement is not a punishment but a sanctifying act. I know that he will say that you are still suffering the consequences of a sin that Jesus paid for already. How do I answer?

 

[cygnusx1]

Jesus paid the price for our sins, past, present and future. Why does God punish us for our sins that we commit as christians in this life if God already received satisfaction at the cross?

Consider the difference between Chastisement and Punishment .

When Christ died "becoming sin on the cross" truly he was punished by being put to death as though He had sinned all those sins He blotted out , He wasn't chastised , chastisement is to correct behaviour to lovingly put out discipline to straighten our lives , but punishment has no such goal in mind , it is purely Penal.

We cannot be punished only chastised , thanks be to God!

 

[Jon_]

True, but you don't see the truth of scripture until God opens your eyes to see. I was brought up in the same tradition as my friend and you always believe that you are seeing the truth until the moment God actually reveals the truth of scripture. Then it is an "aha" moment. Please expound on why chastisement is not a punishment but a sanctifying act. I know that he will say that you are still suffering the consequences of a sin that Jesus paid for already. How do I answer?

I can think of at least two verses off the top of my head that are very applicable and know there are at least a dozen more.

(Heb. 11:24-26 KJV) By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; 25) Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; 26) Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
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(By the way, this passage is also a proof for Covenant Theology. See how Paul translates Moses's faith as faith in Christ.)

Here in Hebrews we see that we are chastised of the Lord. We see that Moses esteemed the reproach (rebuke, admonishment, chastisement) of Christ more than the pleasures of sin. Christ came to save us from our sins, yes, but he is also our Light in a whole of darkness. When we walk in the Light, all is well, but when we venture into the darkness, the Light blinds our eyes and afflicts us. We are reproved by our perfect spirits through Christ, knowing that we ought to do better.

Why are we chastised, though?

(1 Cor 11:32 KJV) But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

(Col. 1:23-24 KJV) If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; 24) Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

(James 1:2-4 KJV) My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; 3) Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. 4) But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
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Quite simply, we are chastised because we are tempted and fall. We are tempted and fall because we are human. The core purpose of God's chastisement is to keep us on the straight and narrow path, that we should not turn back from him.

(Ps. 37:23-24 KJV) The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way. 24) Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand.
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Moreover, God allows us to experience trials and sufferings as a symbol of the sufferings that Christ went through. We that have been chosen by God are no longer of this world. Therefore, he sets us apart (sanctifies us) by disciplining us for falling. This gradual process of removing sin from our lives is one of God's many promises. Because our faith shines like a candle in a darkened room, we know when do evil and we hate it and ourselves for doing it. But God is faithful and he continues to deliver us from these temptations, chastising us for our falls and sanctifying us that we should more strongly resist in the future.

God desires sacrifice from us. That means laying aside your own desires, which include not wanting to receive chastisement for sins that have been forgiven, and accepting the work of God's perfect plan.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon