Paul's Renewed Understanding of the Covenant

[BABerean2]

Through the Torah I died by the Torah so that I might live by Elohim. Now I understand that mount Sinai is the heart and mount Horeb is the mind. So then, with the mind I serve the Torah of Elohim, which is Horeb, and of above: but against the flesh, the Torah of sin to put to death those members of my household which would bring me into bondage to the flesh.

I thank the Father for the Testimony of His Son concerning all these things, and even all things, for I could never have understood these things without that holy Testimony. If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck him out, and cast him out of you: if your hand causes you to stumble, cut him off, and cast him from you: if your foot is always running swiftly into mischief and causing you to stumble, cut him off, and cast him from you. Soul for soul, eye for eye, hand for hand, foot for foot: cut them off before they choke the seed of the Word out of the soil of your heart. Show them no mercy: and rightly divide between good and evil as you study the Word, O porter.

Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

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[daq]

Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

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Acts 15:1 ASV
1 And certain men came down from Judæa and taught the brethren, saying, Except ye be circumcised after the custom of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

The "custom of Moses" is the Pharisaic carnal minded outward way of understanding the Torah which is against the people and the Torah of the Messiah in the Gospel accounts.

Acts 15:24 ASV
24 Forasmuch as we have heard that certain who went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls; to whom we gave no commandment;

The difference here is between the Nestle-Aland and W/H morph texts, and the Textus Receptus and Byzantine text types. However this thread is not the right place for such a debate.
Acts 15:24 Greek Text Analysis

Acts 15:19-21 ASV
19 Wherefore my judgment is, that we trouble not them that from among the Gentiles turn to God;
20 but that we write unto them, that they abstain from the pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from what is strangled, and from blood.
21 For [because] Moses from generations of old hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath.

Again it all depends on how you hear what you hear: for one mind may read the above, and say to self, "Yay, all that is necessary for me is what is written in verse twenty!"

Another mind reads the above by the context, and says to self, "Ah, so the remainder I can learn from the Word as it is read every Shabbat in the assembly."

And now days there is even less excuse: for we have the Torah right before us in our printed Bibles, and we also have it electronically at our finger tips 24/7/365.

However this statement in Acts 15:21, the way in which it is written, overtly assumes that those believers of the Gentiles who enter into the all Yisrael of the Father to be grafted in to His olive tree, (like Cornelius), are going to be learning at the synagogues or assemblies every Shabbat wherein the Torah is read aloud to the people.

 

[BABerean2]

However this statement in Acts 15:21, the way in which it is written, overtly assumes that those believers of the Gentiles who enter into the all Yisrael of the Father to be grafted in to His olive tree, (like Cornelius), are going to be learning at the synagogues or assemblies every Shabbat wherein the Torah is read aloud to the people.

You think the Gentiles are going to be learning from the Jews who are lost without Christ, instead of the lost Jews learning from the followers of Christ... Torah, Torah, Torah...


The following verse proves the controversy was not just about circumcision because circumcsion was a yoke Peter did bear.

Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?


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[daq]

You think the Gentiles are going to be learning from the Jews who are without Christ, instead of the lost Jews learning from the followers of Christ... Torah, Torah, Torah...


The following verse proves the controversy was not just about circumcision because circumcsion was a yoke Peter did bear.

Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?


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The same yoke has already been addressed in the previous thread, here, Covenant Renewal.

The yoke in the passage you quote is the same yoke of slavery mentioned by another poster in that other thread, where I responded with the following.

"The yoke of slavery is not the Torah but the carnal minded handwritten ordinances, dogmas, decrees, and injunctions of the Sanhedrin, Elders, Pharisees, Scribes, and Lawyers, which began with physical circumcision for the proselyte as a seal and sign that the initiate will continue in all the teachings of the Pharisees.

Those are the things which were overturned by the Messiah in his Testimony in the Gospel accounts, and then nailed to the stake just as Paul says and teaches, all those incorrect teachings and interpretations of the covenant which were against the people. Study Matthew 5 in a little more depth and see that the Master overturns not the Torah but the incorrect interpretations of the Torah handed down by "those of old time", (some of which included "the tradition of the Elders", one in particular which is mentioned in the Gospel accounts, concerning the Pharisee practice of the washing of hands, which is actually quite an involved ritual)."

My understanding of the Acts 15 passage therefore remains consistent throughout not only the passage but the entire corpus of the apostolic renewed covenant writings.

Changing "the yoke" from the Pharisaic carnal minded outward interpretation of the Torah into the very Torah itself is nothing more than your egregious error which you are not yet willing to relinquish.

The yoke of the Messiah is his Torah-Teaching of the covenant which was given to him from above, from the Father.

John 3:27-36 KJV
27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.
29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.
34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Messiah already has the new-renewed covenant with him when he enters into Yerushalem on the colt: for the new-renewed covenant is the daughter of Zion-Yerushalem, while Yerushalem of above is our mother covenant as already explained to you from Gal 4.

Matthew 21:4-5 KJV
4 All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying,
5 Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.

Zion-Yerushalem of Above: Mother Covenant
Galatians 4:24-27

Daughter of Zion-Yerushalem: Renewed Covenant
Zechariah 9:9, Revelation 21:2

Therefore he says:

Matthew 11:28-30 KJV
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

His yoke is not that of the Sanhedrin Elders, Chief Priests, Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes, Lawyers, and Herodians: his yoke is the correct interpretation of the Torah given to him from above, from the Father, which is the renewed understanding of the very same Torah.

So long as anyone continues to view the Torah according to the mind and eyes of the Pharisees the same remains under that yoke even if he or she outright rejects the Torah. The vail over the heart, mind, and eyes, when reading the covenant, is only done away "in Messiah" just as Paul says in the following teaching.

2 Corinthians 3:12-17 KJV
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Because you do not pay enough heed to these words you do not truly understand the actual liberty we have in Messiah and what that means: the liberty is in walking in his teachings and his interpretations of the Torah, which are not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. And for us, that Testimony is the Spirit of the renewed covenant freely offered up for us, full of grace and truth, in the Gospel accounts, which Testimony he paid for with his own life and blood. It is his holy Testimony which purchases us because that Testimony is in fact why they crucified him and therefore it is tantamount to his very blood: that is what it truly means to be "in Messiah" or "in Christ", which is to actually be walking in his Testimony, ("abiding in the Vine", for he is the Vine and his disciples are the branches).

PS: This isn't about "salvation" but about what it means to be walking "in Messiah".

 

[BABerean2]

"The yoke of slavery is not the Torah but the carnal minded handwritten ordinances, dogmas, decrees, and injunctions of the Sanhedrin, Elders, Pharisees, Scribes, and Lawyers, which began with physical circumcision for the proselyte as a seal and sign that the initiate will continue in all the teachings of the Pharisees.

Paul defined the covenant of "bondage" in the passage below where he compares the Sinai Covenant to the New Covenant.

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.


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[daq]

Paul defined the covenant of "bondage" in the passage below where he compares the Sinai Covenant to the New Covenant.

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.


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I don't understand why you cannot hear what I keep saying but, yes, the natural man understanding of the covenant engenders bondage because the only way the natural mind can imagine "obeying" the Torah is by performing "the works of the law" according to the flesh and the outward physical ways of the natural minded man. That's why Paul says the natural or carnal mind cannot please Elohim: it simply isn't possible, and the answer is not to delete or make the Torah obsolete because that still means the carnal mind is not subject to the Torah of Elohim.

Romans 8:5-8 KJV
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

You've chosen to believe an incorrect answer to the issue at hand: the carnal mind is enmity against Elohim because it is not subject to the Torah of Elohim, neither indeed can it be, period. If therefore you are not subject to the Torah of Elohim then according to Paul you are at enmity with Elohim, period: and that is Paul's teaching right there before our eyes in Romans 8:7.

 

[BABerean2]

You've chosen to believe an incorrect answer to the issue at hand:

I don't understand why you cannot hear what I keep saying but, yes, the natural man understanding of the covenant engenders bondage because the only way the natural mind can imagine "obeying" the Torah is by performing "the works of the law" according to the flesh and the outward physical ways of the natural minded man. That's why Paul says the natural or carnal mind cannot please Elohim: it simply isn't possible, and the answer is not to delete or make the Torah obsolete because that still means the carnal mind is not subject to the Torah of Elohim.

Romans 8:5-8 KJV
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

You've chosen to believe an incorrect answer to the issue at hand: the carnal mind is enmity against Elohim because it is not subject to the Torah of Elohim, neither indeed can it be, period. If therefore you are not subject to the Torah of Elohim then according to Paul you are at enmity with Elohim, period: and that is Paul's teaching right there before our eyes in Romans 8:7.

I believe what Paul said in Galatians 3:16-29 when he described the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant.

I believe what Paul said in Galatians 4:24-31 when he told the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage".

I believe the author of the Book of Hebrews when he says we are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18, but we are come instead to the New Covenant of Mount Zion in Hebrews 12:22-24.

I do not have to ignore or explain away any of these passages.

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[daq]

I believe what Paul said in Galatians 3:16-29 when he described the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant.

I believe what Paul said in Galatians 4:24-31 when he told the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage".

I believe the author of the Book of Hebrews when he says we are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18, but we are come instead to the New Covenant of Mount Zion in Hebrews 12:22-24.

I do not have to ignore or explain away any of these passages.

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And I believe all that Paul says in all his writings, and everything written by the other apostolic authors, and do not need to ignore, explain away, or do away with the Torah, Prophets, and Writings.