Paul's Heart for the Lost

fhansen said:

Anyway, everyone uses reason and experience in this life, along with revelation and grace, to come to their conclusions.

Click to expand...

Of course that is NOT what the Scriptures teach "us" at all.
The Bible PROMISES the natural man cannot understand Truth...
no matter how much "reason" and "experience" he possesses and
unregenerated men do NOT have "revelation and grace"... so that
type of humanistic "logic" not only contradicts multiple Scriptures,
it is also just nonsensical.


Of course this assumes you understand (and accept) what JESUS taught
about the "wheat and tares" in the church.


And the Bible PROMISES the real saints (not all "Christians" by
any stretch of the imagination... only the FEW "wheat") will be
able to understand Biblical Truth because they are TAUGHT by
the indwelling Holy Spirit (as God "reveals" Gospel "mysteries"
in a progressive manner throughout all of history), with the LAST
"mysteries" of the Gospel being revealed by the Last Saints as
the Seventh Trumpet "begins to sound" [Rev 10:7-11]


So you have your humanistic "logic" to defend your inability to
understand Biblical Truths - and I have Scripture(s) which foretold
the Biblical "mysteries" the Last Saints "shall understand" and
shall PREACH.


Now, you can PRETEND the True Gospel is simply a matter of
"opinion" or some "reasoned thinking" or "experience"... and you
can PRETEND understanding Biblical Truth is simply not possible as
it's beyond your ability... but you only pretend and contradict what
Scripture proclaims. Biblical Truth is NOT limited to what you can
understand - or to the consensus of "Christian theologians".


And jumping up-and-down screaming "gnosticism" is not ONLY
contradicting what the BIBLE declares about the teaching of the
Holy Spirit (in real saints), it is also the last resort to those who
cannot refute what a real saint has "revealed" to them. And this
does not even address the SPECIAL situation with the Last Saints.


Of course, you CAN (and are) simply pretend that the Bible
is LYING in Daniel 12:8-10, and Jesus is LYING in Mat 24:15,33,
and God is just LYING in Rev 10:7-11, about the last "sign" before
His Return being the Last Saints "revealing" Biblical "mysteries"
(never known to previous saints) as the Seventh Trumpet
"begins to sound". But we both know that is just you pretending,
because you must... in order to protect your false doctrines/gospel
from the SCRIPTURES (I provided you) foretelling this reality.


Of course it's amusing to see you to try to justify your inability to
understand (or accept) what the Bible says about the Last Saints
"revealing" Biblical mysteries - by pretending such knowledge is
just "above our pay grade". True, it's above the "pay grade" of all
EXCEPT the Last Saints (Dan 12 PROMISES only the Last Saints
"shall understand" at the "time of the end", or during the period
called the "Season and Time" in Dan 7:11-12, or the period when
the Seventh Trumpet "begins to sound" in Rev 10, or the period
spoken of in Rev 11:14, or the period BETWEEN Rev 20:10 and
Rev 19:20.


And it is amusing to see you intentionally ignore all these verses
which you have NO IDEA how to fit into your "gospel"... so far
your strategy has been to simply deny and ignore and to scream
"gnosticism" about what the BIBLE PROMISED would occur.


So, if screaming "gnosticism" provides you with some level of
comfort in not being able to understand or REFUTE what is being
"revealed" by the Last Saints, then I can understand why it's your
only response. Good luck with that.


Jim

5thKingdom said:

Of course that is NOT what the Scriptures teach "us" at all.
The Bible PROMISES the natural man cannot understand Truth...
no matter how much "reason" and "experience" he possesses and
unregenerated men do NOT have "revelation and grace"... so that
type of humanistic "logic" not only contradicts multiple Scriptures,
it is also just nonsensical.

Click to expand...

Ok, good thing you got it all figured out. Its good someone does. Have fun in heaven.

fhansen said:

Ok, good thing you got it all figured out. Its good someone does. Have fun in heaven.

Click to expand...

No, again you get it all wrong.


It certainly is a good thing God intended (as PROMISED in SEVERAL
places in the Bible) the Last Saints "shall understand" (and preach)
Biblical "mysteries" that had remained "sealed" to all previous saints.
But it's a grave mistake to think (or pretend) we could "figure out" all
these Biblical Truths. Instead, they were "revealed" to the Last Saints,
as SEVERAL Scripture(s) foretold would happen.


And we both KNOW that, if you could REFUTE the Scriptures I sent,
you would do so with great delight. But you cannot refute a word,
which was also foretold, so you are diminished to sending a sarcastic
response to deflect from the fact these "sealed" Biblical mysteries
were not "revealed" to you - and you cannot find ONE VERSE that
refutes ANY of these prophecies about the "time of the end"


I hope you realize when you send sarcastic comments to me,
you are actually MOCKING GOD (not me), I am just one of His
messengers. Do not get me wrong, I do not mind you attacking
me (for His sake), that is actually a BLESSING for me. However,
it is not a good thing for those doing the attacking.


In parting, I must say I am GLAD that you are intelligent enough to
understand the IMPLICATIONS of the last "sign" before His Return
being the Last Saints preaching mysteries that remained "closed-up"
and "sealed" until this "time of the end" or "Season and Time".
You are correct, the Bible provides one last "test" in the churches,
who has God "revealed" these "mysteries" to (from the Scripture)
and who has been left-behind in darkness unable to "understand"
and, therefore, demonstrating they are not part of the Last Saints.


Just as people's response to hearing the Gospel was a "test" or an
indication of who were part of the "wheat and tares" of the church,
as the Seventh Trumpet "begins to sound" God again has provided
a "test" to demonstrate who are the last "wheat" and who are the
last "tares" on earth. Many people hear the same message as you
and are not perceptive enough to understand (as you do) the dire
implications of not being be part of the "wise" of Dan 12:8-10 and
the "wise" of Mat 25:1-13. Congratulations to you for that insight
and rest assured I will have a blessed time in heaven... imagine being
one of those "changed" into our incorruptible spiritual bodies in the
"twinkling of a eye" at the resurrection of the dead. Awesome.


Jim

5thKingdom said:

No, again you get it all wrong.


It certainly is a good thing God intended (as PROMISED in SEVERAL
places in the Bible) the Last Saints "shall understand" (and preach)
Biblical "mysteries" that had remained "sealed" to all previous saints.
But it's a grave mistake to think (or pretend) we could "figure out" all
these Biblical Truths. Instead, they were "revealed" to the Last Saints,
as SEVERAL Scripture(s) foretold would happen.


And we both KNOW that, if you could REFUTE the Scriptures I sent,
you would do so with great delight. But you cannot refute a word,
which was also foretold, so you are diminished to sending a sarcastic
response to deflect from the fact these "sealed" Biblical mysteries
were not "revealed" to you - and you cannot find ONE VERSE that
refutes ANY of these prophecies about the "time of the end"


I hope you realize when you send sarcastic comments to me,
you are actually MOCKING GOD (not me), I am just one of His
messengers. Do not get me wrong, I do not mind you attacking
me (for His sake), that is actually a BLESSING for me. However,
it is not a good thing for those doing the attacking.


In parting, I must say I am GLAD that you are intelligent enough to
understand the IMPLICATIONS of the last "sign" before His Return
being the Last Saints preaching mysteries that remained "closed-up"
and "sealed" until this "time of the end" or "Season and Time".
You are correct, the Bible provides one last "test" in the churches,
who has God "revealed" these "mysteries" to (from the Scripture)
and who has been left-behind in darkness unable to "understand"
and, therefore, demonstrating they are not part of the Last Saints.


Just as people's response to hearing the Gospel was a "test" or an
indication of who were part of the "wheat and tares" of the church,
as the Seventh Trumpet "begins to sound" God again has provided
a "test" to demonstrate who are the last "wheat" and who are the
last "tares" on earth. Many people hear the same message as you
and are not perceptive enough to understand (as you do) the dire
implications of not being be part of the "wise" of Dan 12:8-10 and
the "wise" of Mat 25:1-13. Congratulations to you for that insight
and rest assured I will have a blessed time in heaven... imagine being
one of those "changed" into our incorruptible spiritual bodies in the
"twinkling of a eye" at the resurrection of the dead. Awesome.


Jim

Click to expand...

No, I mean it, good thing you got it all figured out. Its good someone does. Have fun in heaven. Me, I got it all wrong-and I'm apparently irredeemable because I can't hear a lot of truth in your words-and I know I'll never be capable of that.

I believe Paul had a heart for the conversion of the lost Sheep/Elect, the election of Grace summed up in his letter to Timothy 2 Tim 2:10

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect’s sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Brightfame52 said:

I believe Paul had a heart for the conversion of the lost Sheep/Elect, the election of Grace summed up in his letter to Timothy 2 Tim 2:10

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect’s sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Click to expand...

I think you have CONFLATED two separate and distinct groups here.
Yes, Paul most certainly did have a "heart for the conversion of the
lost "Sheep/Elect"... you are correct about that. In fact, that is
also the "fruit" of all saints.

And this is demonstrated in his letters 9generally) TO THE SAINTS.

However, it would be naive to think Paul "had a heart" for the
conversion of those who were NEVER MEANT to "be converted"
or to "have their sins forgiven".

Paul understood that not all Jews were really saved and he knew
that not all "Christians" were MEANT to be saved (although they
were not called "Christians" at that time... they were called
"disciples or followers of Christ").

Paul certainly understood the difference between those who
accepted the Gospel and those who REJECTED the Gospel and
he certainly knew the "church" consisted of BOTH saved "wheat"
sown by God and destined to eternal life AND unsaved "tares" in
the church, sown by Satan and destined to eternal torment.

Since the Bible actually speaks to three (3) different groups
of people (the Bible separates all people into three groups)
it is important to discern WHICH group is the focus/context
of a passage before we can hope to understand the meaning
of that passage. There are:

(1) The saved "wheat" in the church sown by God
(2) The unsaved "tares" in the church sown by Satan
(3) All the lost souls OUTSIDE the church, also "children of Satan"

We must be especially careful to not read a passage where the
focus/context is on group #1... and conflate that into thinking that
if pertains to BOTH group #1 and group #2.

Jim