Paul's : Doctrine #1

RandyPNW said:

Neither the Law nor the Gospel was designed to immediately bring an end to injustice in the world. Rather, they reached out to people who were willing at the time, regardless of the fact some would reject them and regardless of whether the entire society rejected them at some point in their history.

I could hold a glass of cold water out to you and to a group, and the offering would prove its worth when you accept it and when the society accepts it. It may not solve the problem of thirst for all time but that does not thereby make the gift worthless or a failure.

Not even if in the future you reject this gift does it mean the offering was a failure because at one time you did accept it. And even if the society as a whole rejects the glass of water that doesn't mean the offering was fraudulent, a failure, or worthless--some did accept it, and at one time even the whole group benefited from it. The fact it was not a permanent fix for thirst does not invalidate the gift.

That's the way it was with the Law, and that's the way it is with the Gospel. Neither was has been a failure, and the fact the Law fell short of a permanent fix did not mean it lacked validity.

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It has nothing-at all-to do with plan A or plan B or plan C. Some maintain that God shifted plans, to plan B, after Adam sinned, as if God didn't know that would occur. But that's not true of course-there's only one plan. And that plan is much greater than merely stocking some of His otherwise wretched sinful creation in heaven while damning the rest. God’s plan has always been singular: to produce something, something grand and good and noble, something better than He began with. Essential parts of this production are 1) grace, and 2) our willingness to respond to and cooperate with that grace, with this work of His. So, He doesn’t do it apart from us. He’s in the business of producing something like Himself, and we may or may not wish to go along with the program. We’re sort of like flowers who don’t orchestrate their own blossoming, but who can thwart it. We have a telos, a purpose, and to the extent that we know God and love Him with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength and our neighbor as ourselves, that purpose is fulfilled. Then perfect, unending peace, joy, happiness would be ours, incidentally, and this is what God has always wanted for man. We just cannot do it apart from Him. Adam had thought otherwise. We’re here to learn how wrong he was, to learn how right God is.

Adam fell and this world, where good and evil are literally known, is actually the first step back to God. Man needs to learn that God exists, that we're not Him-and why it’s important to make that distinction and to believe in, hope, in and love Him first above all else. God chose a dusty little corner of the world within which to work out His plan in and through man, to patiently educate and form man. He demonstrated His power and opposition towards sin/evil, He gave them the law to define and deny our right to commit sin/evil, so that we’ll know that this world, where man’s will reigns apart from God, isn’t how things should be- while showing us how things should be. Through the law we learn how lawless we are, how we fail to be who we were created to be. The final step is to show us how to actually become the person we were created to be. And this begins with coming to truly know God and be increasingly aligned in will with His.

“Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.” John 17:3

To know God is to know His love, because He first loved us, and so to love Him in return. That love includes His forgiveness, which Jesus demonstrated in no uncertain terms. The atonement not only satisfied God’s requirements for justice, but simultaneously demonstrated His overarching ineffable love for mankind, since He died for us, with a love that has always existed- from the beginning. God is love; He wants the same for us. And that love is both a gift and a choice. The beginning of all this is faith, the simple acknowledgment of His existence, goodness, trustworthiness, and of our need for Him.

From the big picture we find a big plan, of ongoing creation, God having created His universe “en statu viae”, in a state of journeying, as it’s been said, to a purpose and perfection that He has created us for.

RandyPNW said:

You have to explain *why* Paul's righteousness as a Pharisee was insufficient. Was it because the original role of Pharisee was corrupt, or was it because the Pharisees at some point lost their way?

If a lawyer is corrupt should we say that the man failed because he was a lawyer? No. Neither should we say Paul failed righteousness simply because he held a religious office while under the Law. The Law was a perfectly acceptable system, as Jesus himself said. Jesus even said the Jews of his time should follow their teaching, when it corresponded with the Law.

It is not being under the Law that makes a man unrighteous. The Law was God's perfect standard for Israel at the time. Rather, the Law simply showed that Man was already a sinner even before he came under the Law. The Law was designed to remedy the separation between God and sinner in a temporary way, until final redemption had been won.

Jews could not obtain eternal Salvation while under the Law not because they were unrighteous but rather because their record of righteousness had to be dealt with by the grace of Christ's atonement. Their flaws, keeping them from the Tree of Life, had to be erased. And that could not come by human works, but only by Christ's works. A perfect man and a divine man was necessary to forgive sinful Man his sin.

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In a word, “legalism” is why Paul’s righteousness was insufficient; it wasn’t even authentic righteousness at all. We can obey externally while still being filthy on the inside, referencing Matt 5 beginning with verse 21 as well as Matt 23. To put it another way, love was still missing with Paul, as it was missing with Adam to begin with, incidentally. That’s what God’s plan means to cultivate in us. The law reflects that love but cannot, of itself, produce it. Only a humble turning to God can do that. And with that love our righteousness easily begins to surpass that of the Pharisees and teachers of the law BTW (Matt 5:20).

“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.” Jer 31:33-34

Aviel said:

Reader...


The Apostle Paul's teaching regarding our "Soteriology".. is very unique.

He teaches that the Law and commandments, show us who we are in relation to God's Holiness.
And now that the Law, this HOLY MIRROR has let us see ourselves as compared to God's Holiness... we recognize what we are..

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This is the exact same thread made in another forum by the name "Behold". Word for word, copied and pasted.

Here is my response to that thread.

"Why does God want us to see His Instruction in righteousness? According to Scriptures it's so we can "DO" the following.

2 Chron. 7: 14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from "their" wicked ways; "then" will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Is. 55: 7 Let the wicked forsake "his way", and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Ez. 18: 30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin. 31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you "a new heart and a new spirit": for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

I could go on and on. Of course, the deceiver would say, "This is the old covenant, and we are no longer expected to turn away from our sins, Jesus does that for us".

But let's hear what Paul actually teaches. And keep in mind that "Repent" doesn't mean simply to recognize our sin, but to turn from them.

Acts 24: 13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. 14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing "all things" which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Acts 26: 19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: 20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works "meet for repentance."

Eph. 4: 22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; (Just as the Spirit of Crist inspired Ezekiel to teach us.)

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. (How can we know what God's Righteousness and God's Holiness is unless we hear His Laws?

25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

There are too many Scriptures in the bible to post them all which describes for those Seeking God's Truth, which clearly explain why God's Law exists.

So God's Law isn't for the purpose of comparing ourselves to God, it's showing us how we can become Perfect, even as God is perfect. This is what Paul teaches. Paul understood the instruction from the Rock of Israel, the Word of God which became flesh. "Be Ye Perfect" even as God is perfect. Of course, the deceiver would say, "Are you perfect Paul? Are you perfect Studyman", in their attempt to turn us away from Christ's instruction. But Paul and I have the same reply to these "many" who come in Christ's Name.

Phil. 3: 12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

We press towards perfection. Casting away all of our transgressions. Becoming, not hears of God's Law, but "doers" as Jesus instructed. This is the whole duty of man, as it is written.

Ecc. 12: 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

I'll continue in another post.

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To which "Behold" replied;

Studyman said:

We press towards perfection. Casting away all of our transgressions.

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You dont "cast away your Transgressions". @Studyman

You allow Jesus to die for them on the Cross. (By Faith).

You should do that, asap, @Studyman , as then you'll stop trying to cast them away.

Here is the verse that gets you there.

Jesus said...."You must be born again", and water baptism, can't do that for you., nor can commandment keeping or trying to "cast away your Transgressions".

The Apostle Paul's teaching regarding our "Soteriology".. is very unique.

He teaches that the Law and commandments, show us who we are in relation to God's Holiness.
And now that the Law, this HOLY MIRROR has let us see ourselves as compared to God's Holiness... we recognize what we are..

1.) = "all have sinned".. "there is none righteous, no not one"..

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The deceiver would have us believe Paul is speaking about all people, even the Body of Christ here and it mixes the 2 sentences and takes them out of context. Lets see what Paul actually wrote.

8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, (See Romans 2:6-11) that they "are" all under sin;

The deceiver would have us believe there is no difference between the Pharisees Paul was speaking to "whose damnation is just", and those who have repented, turned to God, and were "Pressing toward the prize" of perfection.

Paul quotes Psalms 14 to make his point about those who persecute the Church of God, but the deceiver tries to make it about those who God is in as well. "Ps. 14:5 There were they in great fear: for God is in the generation "of the righteous".
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: (Speaking of the fools and workers of iniquity, those men who have the Oracles of God but do not believe them)

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

The deceiver has promoted for years and years through this world's religions, that Paul is speaking about everybody here, including the Body of Christ. He is not. Psalms 14, and Psalms 5 and Romans 3 are all speaking of men "Whose damnation is just".

14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 15 Their feet are swift to shed blood: 16 Destruction and misery are in their ways: 17 And the way of peace have they not known: 18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Psalms 5: 8 Lead me, O LORD, in thy righteousness because of mine enemies; make thy way straight before my face.

9 For there is no faithfulness in "their" mouth; their inward part is very wickedness; "their" throat is an open sepulchre; they flatter with their tongue.

10 Destroy thou them, O God; let them fall by their own counsels; cast them out in the multitude of their transgressions; for they have rebelled against thee.

It's right there for anyone to look and I pray that you do. When you do, you will see that religious men are wresting Paul's teaching, as they do the other Scriptures as well.

Behold said:

So, this REVELATION that the Law has provided to us...., leads us to God's Grace that is Christ on the Cross. We go there, now that Law has shown us what we are.... we are 'sinners".

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We are shown what SIN is so we can "turn away" from it. "Cast our sins away". Read what is actually written. Don't take a verse here and there, and separate it from the rest of the bible, then mold it to fit whichever religious philosophy of this world we picked.

So I will ask you a question. "When Paul said "Their throat is an open sepulcher, there is none that seeks God", was he speaking of Noah, Abraham, Caleb, Zacharias, Simeon, Stephen, James, Rehab, David, Peter, Cornelious, Paul and other members of God's Church? Or was he speaking about those who "who eat up God's people as they eat bread, and call not upon the LORD."?

When a person establishes the Biblical Truth of this part of Paul's teaching, they can understand the rest of his teaching. But if they are deceived regarding Paul's teaching here, this leaven will infect the rest of the religious philosophy.

2 Thess. 2: 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

If you want to see where Paul "before Proved" that both Jew and Gentile who behave in the manner of the Pharisees who were slandering Paul, simply go back in Romans to chapter 2: 1-11, to see it. You will find who is still under sin, and whose mouth is an open sepulcher. As well as who is considered righteous by God and who is not. And if you will humble yourself a little, you will see how Paul understands that he is no better than they, and therefore, if he behaves in the same manner as they, he will come under the same "Righteous Judgment of God".

fhansen said:

Yes, because, by walking in the Spirit, I overcome the sin that leads to death. That's the only way sin is overcome, with God. Jesus came so that I might be with Him.

“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people." Jer 31:33

"Apart from Me you can do nothing." John 15:5

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But you have now returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.
I give them eternal life and they shall never perish.