Paul

[JustAsIam77]

The 13th apostle. The other twelve, minus Judas, was commanded by Jesus to minister to the Jews only, Paul was converted on the road to damascas to preach to the Gentiles regarding the covenant of grace.

Why was Paul endeared with this huge commision and not any of the other apostles?

Thank you in advance

 

[Osage Bluestem]

The 13th apostle. The other eleven, minus Judas, was commanded by Jesus to minister to the Jews only, Paul was converted on the road to damascas to preach to the Gentiles regarding the covenant of grace.

Why was Paul endeared with this huge commision and not any of the other apostles?

Thank you in advance

Probably because he was so vexing.

 

[JustAsIam77]

I don't understand your reply, could you elaborate?

 

[twin1954]

Paul was not the thirteenth Apostle he was the one appointed by God to take the place of Judas. The other Apostles did what men do and didn't wait on God. Instead of waiting on God they took a vote and Matthias was elected but you never hear of him again. That is what happens when men, even men of God, rely on their natural thinking instead of waiting on God. Every time a vote was taken by those set apart by God it was wrong. I will have to look up the examples again but Moses, David and the Apostles all fell into the natural instead of waiting on God. That is part of the reason I am against the congregational form of government in the church. Men/women who were never truly born of God get to decide what God intends. Voting in the church is not only wrong but destroys many churches.

God sets up His men, called and gifted by Him, to lead the church as Christ leads them. Paul told the Corinthians to follow him as he followed Christ. 1Cor. 11:1

 

[theFijian]

Paul was not the thirteenth Apostle he was the one appointed by God to take the place of Judas. The other Apostles did what men do and didn't wait on God. Instead of waiting on God they took a vote and Matthias was elected but you never hear of him again. That is what happens when men, even men of God, rely on their natural thinking instead of waiting on God. Every time a vote was taken by those set apart by God it was wrong. I will have to look up the examples again but Moses, David and the Apostles all fell into the natural instead of waiting on God. That is part of the reason I am against the congregational form of government in the church. Men/women who were never truly born of God get to decide what God intends. Voting in the church is not only wrong but destroys many churches.

God sets up His men, called and gifted by Him, to lead the church as Christ leads them. Paul told the Corinthians to follow him as he followed Christ. 1Cor. 11:1

Is there really anything to suggest that there was anything wrong or ungodly with Matthias being made an apostle. And ironically he was selected by the casting of lots, he was not elected. There's nothing wrong with voting within churches, unfortunately there are things wrong with those who participate in voting; they are sinners. However God have us a brain and he expects us to use it.

 

[twin1954]

Is there really anything to suggest that there was anything wrong or ungodly with Matthias being made an apostle. And ironically he was selected by the casting of lots, he was not elected. There's nothing wrong with voting within churches, unfortunately there are things wrong with those who participate in voting; they are sinners. However God have us a brain and he expects us to use it.

The kingdom of God has never been a democracy it is a monarchy.

They didn't cast lots as in a game of chance the put forth their lots with their vote on it. Peter seems to have taken it upon himself to fulfill that which was spoken in the Psalms and the other Apostles decided who they were to cast their vote for. They, in it all, relied on the natural thinking instead of waiting on the Spirit which they had not received as yet.

Throughout the Scriptures God has set up men called and gifted by Him to serve His people as under Him. From Abraham, Moses, Joshua, Samuel, David, and so on, He has set up men to rule in His stead. Every time they took it upon themselves to do what they thought was best they messed up.

The idea that God gave us a brain and expects us to use it is natural thinking at it height. Our natural brain is depraved and steeped in everything that is opposed to God. You really want to use it as a guide in spiritual things? No, the Scriptures, a renewed mind and Spirit is our guide not natural thinking. What we naturally think concerning spiritual things is always wrong.

 

[theFijian]

No, the Scriptures, a renewed mind and Spirit is our guide not natural thinking. What we naturally think concerning spiritual things is always wrong.

But the apostles had renewed minds, therefore their thinking was not 'natural thinking' therefore your whole argument is bunk.

 

[branchofthevine]

because it pleased God. Galatians 1:15-16

 

[hedrick]

God can choose anyone he wants. However Paul's advantage over the 12 is that he was familiar with the Greek-Roman culture and the flavor of Judaism there, while the 12 were Palestinian.

 

[twin1954]

But the apostles had renewed minds, therefore their thinking was not 'natural thinking' therefore your whole argument is bunk.

Did they? It was before Pentecost. They still had the minds that asked the Lord when He would restore the kingdom. They still had the minds that didn't understand the parables. They still had the minds that didn't understand what the death of Christ actually meant for them. My argument isn't bunk but you can dismiss it if you want.

BTW even renewed minds still fall into natural thinking. Religion is proof.

 

[St_Worm2]

The 13th apostle. The other twelve, minus Judas, was commanded by Jesus to minister to the Jews only

Didn't Peter bear some of the burden (Acts 15:7) ..

 

[Grafted In]

twin1954 nailed this one, in my opinion.

 

[JustAsIam77]

Thank you one and all, I profit greatly from hearing what other brothers in Christ opinions are.

 

[theFijian]

Did they? It was before Pentecost.

Ah I see, so after Pentecost it's ok to have voting within the church system then.

They still had the minds that asked the Lord when He would restore the kingdom. They still had the minds that didn't understand the parables. They still had the minds that didn't understand what the death of Christ actually meant for them. My argument isn't bunk but you can dismiss it if you want.

Do any of us really understand what the death of Christ means? Is there a way of measuring our understanding so that we know whether our minds are renewed enough or not?

BTW even renewed minds still fall into natural thinking. Religion is proof.

An easy charge to level, how do we know that you've not fallen into natural thinking?

The silence on the life of Matthias proves nothing except that we have no writings about him, so why fill the void with speculation? And one wonders how one can post on the internet, make theological arguments, or make any assertions about any thing spiritual without using ones brain? Our mental faculties are God given, they have been transformed and renewed by Christ, this disdain for the physical sounds rather gnostic.

 

[AmericanSamurai]

twin1954 nailed this one, in my opinion.

Yes, indeed.

I really can't stand churches that pattern their governance to mirror that of your typical mainstream liberal society. This is how they come up with all sorts of heresies, female as well as homosexual Pastors, and on and on.

 

[Johnnz]

Paul was extraordinarily gifted - culturally, intellectually, his zeal for God, his Jewish background. God used that to enable Paul to work from his Jewish faith and reframe all he knew around Jesus so that non Jewish people would be able to comprehend what Jesus was all about.Without Paul Christianity could have become some bakwater subset of Jewish beliefs.

John
NZ

 

[JustAsIam77]

Paul was extraordinarily gifted - culturally, intellectually, his zeal for God, his Jewish background. God used that to enable Paul to work from his Jewish faith and reframe all he knew around Jesus so that non Jewish people would be able to comprehend what Jesus was all about.Without Paul Christianity could have become some bakwater subset of Jewish beliefs.

John
NZ

Amen!

Only God knows why Paul was chosen to bring the message of salvation by grace alone to the Gentiles but Paul was the perfect choice to do so.

 

[Dusky Mouse]

Did they? It was before Pentecost. They still had the minds that asked the Lord when He would restore the kingdom. They still had the minds that didn't understand the parables. They still had the minds that didn't understand what the death of Christ actually meant for them. My argument isn't bunk but you can dismiss it if you want.

BTW even renewed minds still fall into natural thinking. Religion is proof.

Jesus wasn't teaching religion.
Religion is proof that mortal minds teach religion.

 

[Dusky Mouse]

Didn't Peter bear some of the burden (Acts 15:7) ..

He did indeed.
Acts 15:7-9 (NIV)


7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.


And here:
Acts 10:34-43(NIV)


34 Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right. 36 You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all. 37 You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached— 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.
39 “We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a cross, 40 but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. 41 He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. 42 He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. 43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

 

[Johnnz]

Peter never quite made the change in mindset that Jesus initiated.
Gal 2:7-13 On the contrary, they saw that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the Gentiles, just as Peter had been to the Jews. For God, who was at work in the ministry of Peter as an apostle to the Jews, was also at work in my ministry as an apostle to the Gentiles. James, Peter and John, those reputed to be pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the Jews. All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do.

When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong. Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.

John
NZ
NIV