Paul the heretic??

[Colter]

Its not an excuse, I'm trying to show you something. Death is imminent for us all. WE do not know when or how we will die. Some live to be 100, others perhaps 15, is that just? THe same God allows those things doesn't he? Is that just though? Is God wrong to let one man live to 100 while a baby dies of SIDS? IS God just in that?

We don't know why God may have commanded those things, but one thing we do know is that GOds ways our not our ways. WE will all die, and that's the only thing we can be sure of. Is that just? Didn't God promise something better? IS eternal life not better than this world of hardships? How can you say any person is worse off by not struggling with hardship any more? Its not our place to take any ones life, but surely God will take every life he has created, and its not for us to complain about it. WE should instead hope in eternal life with Him.

You are going to be disappointed if you think eternal life is sitting around doing nothing in heaven. We pick up right where we left off.

 

[lesliedellow]

You are going to be disappointed if you think eternal life is sitting around doing nothing in heaven. We pick up right where we left off.

You've been there to have a good look around, I take it.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Jesus makes no rules about how people should behave.
At most, He say's, Love God, then behave as if you loved God.
Paul piles on a bunch more legalism bologna that clergy are
then forced to believe in becasue they already have taken the
stand that God wrote Paul's letters as if it was Moses and stone.

Jesus did give us two commandments. Have you forgotten that? And that these are two huge commandments in that they cover all of the Law of Moses AND the Prophets.

So, how in light of the fact that Jesus gave us two hugely encompassing commandments, did Jesus leave us with no rules?

 

[W2L]

Yes, I understood your lame excuse for the atrocities of the Old Testament, you said "we all die some day", so according to you how people die or weather or not people use religion to justify killing or discrimination doesn't really matter. Its a terrible excuse for bad behavior.

People didn't kill, God did as you said. Also, I said its not our place to take the life of another person. You are twisting my words with politically correct rhetoric.

 

[ToBeLoved]

You are going to be disappointed if you think eternal life is sitting around doing nothing in heaven. We pick up right where we left off.

If that is true. Then why not just let us live longer on earth?

What would be God's point to doing that. Pls explain.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I'm not suggesting that its not all Gods work, but I believe part of his work is to give us a choice, that he wants us to make, daily.

IM focusing on people who say that obeying commands is heresy, and obviously that is irrational theology, because if we were not meant to hear and follow commands, then God would not send apostles at all. If God can just write laws on our heart and mind, without commanding anything at all, then why did he send apostles? Whats the point?

Well the Apostles were instrumental in the early church. Not just explaining about Christ and testifying of Him, but putting a church leadership team together (ie. Pastor/Teacher, elders, ect) as well as counseling them when they had problems or big disagreements.

Almost all of Paul's Epistles are letters to new churches, Phillipi, Galatia, Corinth, Rome, Thessolonica, ect. Now if Paul hadn't went on his missionary journeys, converted people, and then taught them as well as establishing offices to run the church after he left, it would have been chaos. Besides the fact that there would not have been many converts.

Why do you think Jesus said to Peter, 'On this rock, I will build my church' if the Apostles did nothing?

 

[W2L]

I don't hear anyone condemning the the Allies for all the millions of innocent civilians killed in WW2. THey say it was just because we had to stop Hitler. Are soldiers now suppose to go into a battle field, and not kill innocent people who live among the soldiers? When was war ever that way?

 

[W2L]

Well the Apostles were instrumental in the early church. Not just explaining about Christ and testifying of Him, but putting a church leadership team together (ie. Pastor/Teacher, elders, ect) as well as counseling them when they had problems or big disagreements.

Almost all of Paul's Epistles are letters to new churches, Phillipi, Galatia, Corinth, Rome, Thessolonica, ect. Now if Paul hadn't went on his missionary journeys, converted people, and then taught them as well as establishing offices to run the church after he left, it would have been chaos. Besides the fact that there would not have been many converts.

Why do you think Jesus said to Peter, 'On this rock, I will build my church' if the Apostles did nothing?

I believe abiding in Christ is about abiding in his commands. We cannot just hear the part about the cross and go our merry way can we? Isnt abiding in Christ about understanding what pleases God, and what pleases the spirit? IF we don't have that knowledge how do we learn to abide in Christ?

 

[W2L]

You are going to be disappointed if you think eternal life is sitting around doing nothing in heaven. We pick up right where we left off.

What?

 

[Colter]

If that is true. Then why not just let us live longer on earth?

What would be God's point to doing that. Pls explain.

I get the impression that people think the Sons world(s) created by the powers the Father gave him are micro managed in every detail. Die in a car wreck, God did it, stumped your toe, God did it, die from cancer, God did it, lived to 100, God did it. Not so, God the Father deals with much larger aspects of his creation than the routine outworking of his evolutionary worlds in time and space. Earth never was supposed to be our permanent home and we grow through our efforts to do Gods will. On the mansion worlds we will still be working to shed "the mark of the beast", the influence of our evolutionary animal inheritance.

 

[Colter]

If that is true. Then why not just let us live longer on earth?

What would be God's point to doing that. Pls explain.

In Gods plan we live on this world to an average age unless we accomplish all that we can spiritually and are translated, consumed by the spiritual flames and graduate to the next level where more work awaits us.

 

[Colter]

You've been there to have a good look around, I take it.

I like you Leslie, you have a good sense of humor. What do you think we will do in heaven, watch reruns of Benny Hill all day? Lets say after 600,000 years of sitting we might like to do something? Gardening perhaps? Do you think maybe we will be allowed to grow a plot? In my theology we will have endless service projects to enjoy.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I believe abiding in Christ is about abiding in his commands. We cannot just hear the part about the cross and go our merry way can we? Isnt abiding in Christ about understanding what pleases God, and what pleases the spirit? IF we don't have that knowledge how do we learn to abide in Christ?

So where are you getting this from? That abiding in Christ is about abiding in His commands?

Your other answers are with your logic or human logic. But God does not think with human logic because God is about preparing us for heaven, not about getting us to do stuff here on earth.

So my question is .... How do you know that you are doing what Christ wants you to do by abiding in commands? And what or which commands are you abiding in?

Peter thought he was doing God's will by not eating with the Gentiles. Not eating their unclean food. But God showed Peter through visions that he was wrong. That Jesus death had brought in the New Covenant, the covenant of both Jew AND Gentile. So God showed Peter that he could and should eat and fellowship with Gentiles.

 

[W2L]

So where are you getting this from? That abiding in Christ is about abiding in His commands?

Your other answers are with your logic or human logic. But God does not think with human logic because God is about preparing us for heaven, not about getting us to do stuff here on earth.

So my question is .... How do you know that you are doing what Christ wants you to do by abiding in commands? And what or which commands are you abiding in?

Peter thought he was doing God's will by not eating with the Gentiles. Not eating their unclean food. But God showed Peter through visions that he was wrong. That Jesus death had brought in the New Covenant, the covenant of both Jew AND Gentile. So God showed Peter that he could and should eat and fellowship with Gentiles.

Peter was doing Gods will until God changed it.

How do we call him Lord and not do what he commands? How do we abide in him by not abiding in his commands? I cannot believe the irrational thinking that would ever assert that we can abide in Christ without abiding in His commands. That's absurd. It lacks any intellectual thought, meditation or discernment and should be avoided I think.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

In the first place, the Reformation began in Germany, not England, and it was already well under way by the time Henry VIII decided thet he wanted a new wife.

In the second place, even after dispossing of the services of the Pope, Henry remained theologically a catholic, with a small 'c'. He sent more than a few Protestants to the stake, even after his spat with the Pope. The Church of England became Protestant under Edward VI, Catholic again Mary I, and finally a compromise between the two under Elizabeth I.

In the third place, it was James I at the beginning of the seventeenth century, not Henry in the sixteenth, which commisioned a translation of the Bible.
.



Again, you are confusing the theology of Luther with the machinations of Henry VIII.




How exactly?

.


The Reformation was actively opposed by the state. In Germany from the outset, and in England under both Henry VIII and Mary I.

Yes, that's right that might be why the German princes got slaughter without any help from england. I'm rather tired of this topic so you win this round. Cheers.

 

[ToBeLoved]

In Gods plan we live on this world to an average age unless we accomplish all that we can spiritually and are translated, consumed by the spiritual flames and graduate to the next level where more work awaits us.

Doesn't that sound pleasant.

Is the God of the Bible your God or do you have a different God?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Peter was doing Gods will until God changed it.

How do we call him Lord and not do what he commands? How do we abide in him by not abiding in his commands? I cannot believe the irrational thinking that would ever assert that we can abide in Christ without abiding in His commands. That's absurd. It lacks any intellectual thought, meditation or discernment and should be avoided I think.

I agree with you to some degree. But do you obey Him so He doesn't send you to hell OR do you obey Him because you love Him OR ???

You know God does care a lot why we do things. What our motivation is. How we feel about what we are doing as we are doing it.

 

[SkyWriting]

Jesus did give us two commandments. Have you forgotten that? And that these are two huge commandments in that they cover all of the Law of Moses AND the Prophets.So, how in light of the fact that Jesus gave us two hugely encompassing commandments, did Jesus leave us with no rules?

And then Paul mucked them up with legal mud slinging at his pet peeves.
Jesus said - Love God, than act as if you believed it.
Paul said - how long people should grow their hair.

 

[SkyWriting]

Well, that effectively cashes out as a set of "rules" on how to live.

I've never heard that.
You're the first.

 

[davidcrosby]

What's our motivation? Our motivating motives?... In the first verse of Leviticus chapter 16, God speaks of the death of Nadab and Abihu (Aaron’s sons). Verse 12 says that God instructed Aaron to take the fire from the altar and put it in the incense. In other words, the fire for the incense offered to God was to come from the fire that God had kindled (Lev 9:24). But Aaron’s sons had grabbed strange fire to offer to the Lord (Lev 10:1). They offered fire of their own doings and not of God’s. God doesn’t want our strange fire, so it’s always important to examine our motives for Him. So I have to ask myself if there is any fire that is motivating me other than what God has kindled, and kindled in my heart. Maybe we should examine our motives by what’s motivating us. Like the old saying goes, you play with fire, you get burnt.