Paul on the Law: Romans Chapter 10

[HARK!]

Continued from: Roman Chapter 9

Romans 10 (CLV)
1 Indeed, brethren, the delight of my heart and my petition to God for their sake is for salvation." 2 For I am testifying to them that they have a zeal of God,

Who are They?

Those who follow The Law of Righteousness, and at the risk of presenting an oxymoron, Pharisaical Israel.

but not in accord with recognition." 3 For they, being ignorant of the righteousness of God,

What is righteousness?

Definition of righteous

1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law
Definition of RIGHTEOUS

God's Law (Torah)

and seeking to establish their own righteousness,

The Law of Righteousness
The Law of Sin and Death

were not subjected to the righteousness of God."

God's Law (Torah)

As we saw in Chapter 9, The Law of Righteousness is in opposition to the Righteousness of YHWH. It elevates one's self above YHWH.

4 For Christ is the consummation of law for righteousness to everyone who is believing.

------------------------------------------------
Let's pause here.

Despite that we have gone over so far in The Book of Romans; and despite thus far, Paul has consistently said that we keep the Torah; this verse is often used by those who are looking for a way to skirt around obedience to YHWH's law.

Here is just one example pointed out early on in the foundation of this letter:

(CLV) Ro 2:13
For not the listeners to law are just with God, but the doers of law shall be justified.


Let's look at this verse very carefully.

This translation uses the word "consummation," which means marriage. The CLV purports to be a word for word translation; but most other translations use the word "end"

However, I am not presenting an argumentum ad populum.



Here is how Strong defines G5056:

•end

•termination, the limit at which a thing ceases to be (always of the end of some act or state, but not of the end of a period of time)

•the end

•the last in any succession or series

•eternal

•that by which a thing is finished, its close, issue

•the end to which all things relate, the aim, purpose

•toll, custom (i.e. indirect tax on goods)

G5056 - telos - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)


Now I'm by no means saying that Strong is the final authority on this matter; but the translation is relatively consistent.

This translation is also consistent with the context of Paul's letter to the Romans.

Context is key.

Paul laid this foundation in the opening of this letter:

(CLV) Ro 1:17
For in it God's righteousness is being revealed, out of faith for faith, according as it is written: "Now the just one by faith shall be living."

What is just?

Definition of just
2a : acting or being in conformity with what is morally upright or good : righteous
b : legally correct : lawful
Definition of JUST

So those of faith will be obedient to YHWH's law, through faith.


In the very next verse Paul laid this foundation in the opening of this letter:

(CLV) Ro 1:18
For God's indignation is being revealed from heaven on all the irreverence and injustice of men who are retaining the truth in injustice,

Retaining the truth in injustice? What does this mean? Let's read through Paul's letter to find out. I already mentioned, earlier in this series, that Paul has a round about way of getting to his point. He's now getting to his point.

Just four verses earlier, in Romans 9:31, Paul introduce a new legal term to our vocabulary:

The Law of Righteousness.

It sounds righteous; doesn't it?
It's NOT!

31 Yet Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, into a law of righteousness does not outstrip." 32 Wherefore? Seeing that it is not out of faith, but as out of law works, they stumble on the stumbling stone, 33 according as it is written: Lo! I am laying in Zion a Stumbling Stone and a Snare Rock, And the one believing on Him shall not be disgraced."

Paul is trying to get us to understand that believing that working to obedience to the law as the means of salvation, is a stumbling stone.

Yahshua's name proclaims that it is YHWH saves you. YAH shua!

By believing that you can save yourself; you have elevated yourself to YHWH.

YHWH didn't nail his righteous law (Torah) to the torture stake. He nailed The Law of Righteousness to the torture stake. It is the end of The Law of Righteousness for those who are under The Law of Faith. They will be obedient to The Spirit's Law of Life, as it lead the to be obedient to YHWH's Law (Torah).

Paul went over this in Chapter 8.


Romans 10:4 in context:

For Messiah is the end of The Law of Righteousnes, for righteousness, to everyone who is believing in the righteousness of YHWH.

Follow Yahshua, as Yahshua followed Torah.

(CLV) Ro 2:13
For not the listeners to law are just with God, but the doers of law shall be justified.

5 For Moses is writing of the righteousness which is of law, that a man who does the same shall be living in it."

(CLV) Ro 2:13
For not the listeners to law are just with God, but the doers of law shall be justified.

6 Yet the righteousness of faith is saying thus: You may not be saying in your heart, Who will be ascending into heaven? - that is, to be leading Christ down -"

(CLV) Dt 30:12
It is neither in the heavens for you to say: Who shall ascend to the heavens for us and take it for us and announce it to us that we may do it?

Hear and Obey. Follow Yahshua as he followed the Torah.

(CLV) Ro 2:13
For not the listeners to law are just with God, but the doers of law shall be justified.

7 or Who will be descending into the submerged chaos? - that is, to be leading Christ up from among the dead."

(CLV) Dt 30:13
Nor is it across the sea for you to say: Who shall cross across the sea for us and take it for us and announce it to us that we may do it?

Hear and Obey. Follow Yahshua as he followed the Torah.

(CLV) Ro 2:13
For not the listeners to law are just with God, but the doers of law shall be justified.

8 But what is it saying? Near you is the declaration, in your mouth and in your heart - that is, the declaration of faith which we are heralding" 9 that, if ever you should be avowing with your mouth the declaration that Jesus is Lord, and should be believing in your heart that God rouses Him from among the dead, you shall be saved." 10 For with the heart it is believed for righteousness, yet with the mouth it is avowed for salvation." 11 For the scripture is saying: Everyone who is believing on Him shall not be disgraced. 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same One is Lord of all, being rich for all who are invoking Him."

One Elohim, and one law for all of Israel!

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, [Yahshua] answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

(CLV) Ex 12:49
One law shall there be for both the native and for the sojourner sojourning in your midst.

13 For everyone, whoever should be invoking the name of the Lord, shall be saved." 14 How, then, should they be invoking One in Whom they do not believe? Yet how should they be believing One of Whom they do not hear? Yet how should they be hearing apart from one heralding? 15 Yet how should they be heralding if ever they should not be commissioned? According as it is written: How beautiful are the feet of those bringing an evangel of good! 16 But not all obey the evangel, for Isaiah is saying, "Lord, who believes our tidings? 17 Consequently, faith is out of tidings, yet the tidings through a declaration of Christ." 18 But, I am saying, Do they not hear at all? To be sure! "Into the entire earth came out their utterance, And into the ends of the inhabited earth their declarations." 19 But, I am saying, Did not Israel know at all? First Moses is saying, I shall be provoking you to jealousy over those not a nation; Over an unintelligent nation shall I be vexing you." 20 20 Yet Isaiah is very daring and is saying, I was found by those who are not seeking Me; I became disclosed to those who are not inquiring for Me." 21 Now to Israel He is saying, The whole day I spread out My hands to a stubborn and contradicting people!"

Paul speaks of the nations coming to know him.

Hallelu YAH!

Legal Terms:

The Law of Faith (Ch 3)
A Different Law (Ch 7)
The Law of My Mind (Ch 7)
The Law of Sin (Sin's Law) (Ch 7)
God's Law (Ch 7)
The Spirit's Law of Life (Ch 8)
The Law of Sin and Death (Ch 8)
The Law of Righteousness (Ch 9


Romans Chapter 11

 

[dqhall]

Continued from: Roman Chapter 9

Romans 10 (CLV)
1 Indeed, brethren, the delight of my heart and my petition to God for their sake is for salvation." 2 For I am testifying to them that they have a zeal of God,

Who are They?

Those who follow The Law of Righteousness, and at the risk of presenting an oxymoron, Pharisaical Israel.

but not in accord with recognition." 3 For they, being ignorant of the righteousness of God,

What is righteousness?

Definition of righteous

1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law
Definition of RIGHTEOUS

God's Law (Torah)

and seeking to establish their own righteousness,

The Law of Righteousness
The Law of Sin and Death

were not subjected to the righteousness of God."

God's Law (Torah)

As we saw in Chapter 9, The Law of Righteousness is in opposition to the Righteousness of YHWH. It elevates one's self above YHWH.

4 For Christ is the consummation of law for righteousness to everyone who is believing.

------------------------------------------------
Let's pause here.

Despite that we have gone over this chapter; and Paul has consistently said that we keep the Torah; this verse is often used by those who are looking for a way to skirt around obedience to YHWH's law.

Here is just one example pointed out early on in the foundation of this letter:

(CLV) Ro 2:13
For not the listeners to law are just with God, but the doers of law shall be justified.


Let's look at this verse very carefully.

This translation uses the word "consummation," which means marriage. The CLV purports to be a word for word translation; but most other translations use the word "end"

However, I am not presenting an argumentum ad populum.



Here is how Strong defines G5056:

•end

•termination, the limit at which a thing ceases to be (always of the end of some act or state, but not of the end of a period of time)

•the end

•the last in any succession or series

•eternal

•that by which a thing is finished, its close, issue

•the end to which all things relate, the aim, purpose

•toll, custom (i.e. indirect tax on goods)

G5056 - telos - Strong's Greek Lexicon (KJV)


Now I'm by no means saying that Strong is the final authority on this matter; but the translation is relatively consistent.

This translation is also consistent with the context of Paul's letter to the Romans.

Context is key.

Paul laid this foundation in the opening of this letter:

(CLV) Ro 1:17
For in it God's righteousness is being revealed, out of faith for faith, according as it is written: "Now the just one by faith shall be living."

What is just?

Definition of just
2a : acting or being in conformity with what is morally upright or good : righteous
b : legally correct : lawful
Definition of JUST

So those of faith will be obedient to YHWH's law, through faith.


In the very next verse Paul laid this foundation in the opening of this letter:

(CLV) Ro 1:18
For God's indignation is being revealed from heaven on all the irreverence and injustice of men who are retaining the truth in injustice,

Retaining the truth in injustice? What does this mean? Let's read through Paul's letter to find out. I already mentioned, earlier in this series, that Paul has a round about way of getting to his point. He's now getting to his point.

Just four verses earlier, in Romans 9:31, Paul introduce a new legal term to our vocabulary:

The Law of Righteousness.

It sounds righteous; doesn't it?
It's NOT!

31 Yet Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, into a law of righteousness does not outstrip." 32 Wherefore? Seeing that it is not out of faith, but as out of law works, they stumble on the stumbling stone, 33 according as it is written: Lo! I am laying in Zion a Stumbling Stone and a Snare Rock, And the one believing on Him shall not be disgraced."

Paul is trying to get us to understand that believing that working to obedience to the law as the means of salvation, is a stumbling stone.

Yahshua's name proclaims that it is YHWH saves you. YAH shua!

By believing that you can save yourself; you have elevated yourself to YHWH.

YHWH didn't nail his righteous law (Torah) to the torture stake. He nailed The Law of Righteousness to the torture stake. It is the end of The Law of Righteousness for those who are under The Law of Faith. They will be obedient to The Spirit's Law of Life, as it lead the to be obedient to YHWH's Law (Torah).

Paul went over this in Chapter 8.


Romans 10:4 in context:

For Messiah is the end of The Law of Righteousnes, for righteousness, to everyone who is believing in the righteousness of YHWH.

Follow Yahshua, as Yahshua followed Torah.

(CLV) Ro 2:13
For not the listeners to law are just with God, but the doers of law shall be justified.

5 For Moses is writing of the righteousness which is of law, that a man who does the same shall be living in it."

(CLV) Ro 2:13
For not the listeners to law are just with God, but the doers of law shall be justified.

6 Yet the righteousness of faith is saying thus: You may not be saying in your heart, Who will be ascending into heaven? - that is, to be leading Christ down -"

(CLV) Dt 30:12
It is neither in the heavens for you to say: Who shall ascend to the heavens for us and take it for us and announce it to us that we may do it?

Hear and Obey. Follow Yahshua as he followed the Torah.

(CLV) Ro 2:13
For not the listeners to law are just with God, but the doers of law shall be justified.

7 or Who will be descending into the submerged chaos? - that is, to be leading Christ up from among the dead."

(CLV) Dt 30:13
Nor is it across the sea for you to say: Who shall cross across the sea for us and take it for us and announce it to us that we may do it?

Hear and Obey. Follow Yahshua as he followed the Torah.

(CLV) Ro 2:13
For not the listeners to law are just with God, but the doers of law shall be justified.

8 But what is it saying? Near you is the declaration, in your mouth and in your heart - that is, the declaration of faith which we are heralding" 9 that, if ever you should be avowing with your mouth the declaration that Jesus is Lord, and should be believing in your heart that God rouses Him from among the dead, you shall be saved." 10 For with the heart it is believed for righteousness, yet with the mouth it is avowed for salvation." 11 For the scripture is saying: Everyone who is believing on Him shall not be disgraced. 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same One is Lord of all, being rich for all who are invoking Him."

One Elohim, and one law for all of Israel!

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, [Yahshua] answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

(CLV) Ex 12:49
One law shall there be for both the native and for the sojourner sojourning in your midst.

13 For everyone, whoever should be invoking the name of the Lord, shall be saved." 14 How, then, should they be invoking One in Whom they do not believe? Yet how should they be believing One of Whom they do not hear? Yet how should they be hearing apart from one heralding? 15 Yet how should they be heralding if ever they should not be commissioned? According as it is written: How beautiful are the feet of those bringing an evangel of good! 16 But not all obey the evangel, for Isaiah is saying, "Lord, who believes our tidings? 17 Consequently, faith is out of tidings, yet the tidings through a declaration of Christ." 18 But, I am saying, Do they not hear at all? To be sure! "Into the entire earth came out their utterance, And into the ends of the inhabited earth their declarations." 19 But, I am saying, Did not Israel know at all? First Moses is saying, I shall be provoking you to jealousy over those not a nation; Over an unintelligent nation shall I be vexing you." 20 20 Yet Isaiah is very daring and is saying, I was found by those who are not seeking Me; I became disclosed to those who are not inquiring for Me." 21 Now to Israel He is saying, The whole day I spread out My hands to a stubborn and contradicting people!"

Paul speaks of the nations coming to know him.

Hallelu YAH!

Legal Terms:

The Law of Faith (Ch 3)
A Different Law (Ch 7)
The Law of My Mind (Ch 7)
The Law of Sin (Sin's Law) (Ch 7)
God's Law (Ch 7)
The Spirit's Law of Life (Ch 8)
The Law of Sin and Death (Ch 8)
The Law of Righteousness (Ch 9

What hope is there in an imperfect law? In Acts 15 Gentiles are excused from becoming circumcised, even though the Torah requires it. Circumcision is an outward sign, not proof of Godly behavior. If you are Jewish, you might find acceptance in Israel. The Jews will put you out if you preach the Gospel to children. They may arrest a person for teaching Christianity to children in Israel as it is against their law. I am Goi (Gentile in Hebrew). I do not need to sacrifice animals and burn them on an altar to be forgiven, even though the Torah tells me to. I am free from paying ten percent to a Levite. I understand that the Torah ruled against stealing. There is righteousness in the law. Neither am I supposed to defraud, lie, commit adultery, murder or other acts of unrighteousness. I can do parts of the law. Other legal codes and religions may also forbid these things. Egyptians were against stealing before the Bible was written. I do not stone people who work on the Sabbath, even though the Torah demanded such a penalty. Jesus is the truth. Jesus set me free.

 

[HARK!]

What hope is there in an imperfect law?

Are you refuting David?

New King James Version
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul; The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple;

 

[HARK!]

In Acts 15 Gentiles are excused from becoming circumcised, even though the Torah requires it. Circumcision is an outward sign, not proof of Godly behavior.

They weren't excused from it; no more than Abraham was. I covered this already.

25 For circumcision, indeed, is benefiting if you should be putting law into practice, yet if you should be a transgressor of law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision."
Romans Chapter 2

30 Yes, of the nations also, if so be that God is One, Who will be justifying the Circumcision out of faith and the Uncircumcision through faith." 31 Are we, then, nullifying law through faith? May it not be coming to that! Nay, we are sustaining law."
Romans Chapter 3


11 And he obtained the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which was in uncircumcision, for him to be the father of all those who are believing through uncircumcision, for righteousness to be reckoned to them, 12 and the father of the Circumcision, not to those of the Circumcision only, but to those also who are observing the elements of the faith in the footprints of our father Abraham, in uncircumcision."
Romans Chapter 4


Paul was making the argument that just as faith preceded the the works of the law; so should it be to all of those coming into the faith. This message central to the theme of this whole letter. If you don't understand that; you won't understand this letter.

 

[HARK!]

Jesus set me free.

18 Now, being freed from Sin, you are enslaved to Righteousness."
Romans Chapter 6


What is sin?

(CLV) 1Jn 3:4
Everyone who is doing sin is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.

What is righteousness?

Definition of righteous
1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin
Definition of RIGHTEOUS

 

[HARK!]

I do not need to sacrifice animals and burn them on an altar to be forgiven, even though the Torah tells me to. I

Are you a High Priest?


1 I am entreating you, then, brethren, by the pities of God, to present your bodies a sacrifice, living, holy, well pleasing to God, your logical divine service,
Romans Chapter 12

 

[dqhall]

18 Now, being freed from Sin, you are enslaved to Righteousness."
Romans Chapter 6


What is sin?

(CLV) 1Jn 3:4
Everyone who is doing sin is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.

What is righteousness?

Definition of righteous
1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin
Definition of RIGHTEOUS

Circumcision is of no value to me. Even Moslems circumcise their boys and thought their law was perfect. I do not follow them either.

Galatians 5:2 (WEB)
Behold, I, Paul, tell you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will profit you nothing.

 

[HARK!]

I do not stone people who work on the Sabbath, even though the Torah demanded such a penalty.

When Israel reunites in the Kingdom, there will be no lawlessness. That hasn't happened yet. If the law of the land was the Torah in Geographic Israel; I'd be there already.

(CLV) Ezk 20:12
And I also gave My sabbaths to them to become a sign between Me and them, to make known that it is I, Yahweh, Who hallows them.


Hebrews 4
CLV(i) 1 We may be afraid then, lest at some time, a promise being left of entering into His stopping, anyone of you may be seeming to be deficient." 2 For we also have been evangelized, even as those also. But the word heard does not benefit those hearers, not having been blended together with faith in those who hear." 3 Then we who believe are entering into the stopping, according as He has declared, "As I swear in My indignation, 'If they shall be entering into My stopping-!'although the works occur from the disruption of the world." 4 For He has declared somewhere concerning the seventh thus: And God stops "on the seventh day from all His works." 5 And in this again, "If they shall be entering into My stopping-!" 6 Since, then, it is left for some to be entering into it, and those to whom the evangel was formerly brought did not enter because of stubbornness, 7 He is again specifying a certain day, "Today"-saying in David after so much time, according as has been declared before, "Today, if ever His voice you should be hearing, You should not be hardening your hearts." 8 For if Joshua causes them to stop, He would not have spoken concerning another day after these things." 9 Consequently a sabbatism is left for the people of God. 10 For he who is entering into His stopping, he also stops from his works even as God from His own." 11 We should be endeavoring, then, to be entering into that stopping, lest anyone should be falling into the same example of stubbornness." 12 For the word of God is living and operative, and keen above any two-edged sword, and penetrating up to the parting of soul and spirit, both of the articulations and marrow, and is a judge of the sentiments and thoughts of the heart." 13 And there is not a creature which is not apparent in its sight. Now all is naked and bare to the eyes of Him to Whom we are accountable. 14 Having, then, a great Chief Priest, Who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, we may be holding to the avowal." 15 For we have not a Chief Priest not able to sympathize with our infirmities, but One Who has been tried in all respects like us, apart from sin." 16 We may be coming, then, with boldness to the throne of grace, that we may be obtaining mercy and finding grace for opportune help."

 

[dqhall]

Are you refuting David?

New King James Version
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul; The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple;

This law is not from God, but from men as it does not recognize the Lord’s desire to end killing:

Exodus 31: 14 You shall keep the Sabbath therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. 15 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to Yahweh. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall surely be put to death.

 

[HARK!]

Is your law really perfect? In Exodus 21 the law allows slavery. It allows a master to beat a slave.

Jesus came to serve not to make his disciples slaves.

It's not my law. It's YHWH's law.

1 Paul, a slave of Christ Jesus,
Romans Chapter 1



16 Are you not aware that to whom you are presenting yourselves as slaves for obedience, his slaves you are, whom you are obeying, whether of Sin for death, or of Obedience for righteousness?

Obedience to what?

What is righteousness?

Definition of righteous
1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin
Definition of RIGHTEOUS

What is sin?

(CLV) 1Jn 3:4
Everyone who is doing sin is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.

Obedience to the law!

Paul makes it clear here that you have only two choices. You will either be a slave of obedience to the law, or you will be a slave to transgression of the law. Either way you are a slave. The question is: who's slave?

18 Now, being freed from Sin, you are enslaved to Righteousness."

What is sin?

(CLV) 1Jn 3:4
Everyone who is doing sin is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.

What is righteousness?

Definition of righteous
1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin
Definition of RIGHTEOUS

19 As a man am I saying this, because of the infirmity of your flesh. For even as you present your members as slaves to Uncleanness and to Lawlessness for lawlessness, thus now present your members as slaves to Righteousness for holiness."

There's a new word. Sounds ritual.

20 For when you were slaves of Sin, you were free as to Righteousness."

What is sin?

(CLV) 1Jn 3:4
Everyone who is doing sin is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.

What is righteousness?

Definition of righteous
1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin
Definition of RIGHTEOUS

Free from sin, not free from YHWH's law. When you are free from sin; you are free to obey.

22 Yet, now, being freed from Sin, yet enslaved to Elohim, you have your fruit for holiness. Now the consummation is life eonian."

Obedience to YHWH's Torah is the fruit of holiness. Eating it is eternal life!

I guess that we should not eat the fruit of sin and death along with the fruit of holiness. That would be sort of like eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Romans Chapter 6


There's more on this subject within this letter; but this should suffice.

 

[HARK!]

Circumcision is of no value to me. Even Moslems circumcise their boys and thought their law was perfect. I do not follow them either.

Galatians 5:2 (WEB)
Behold, I, Paul, tell you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will profit you nothing.

Again:

25 For circumcision, indeed, is benefiting if you should be putting law into practice, yet if you should be a transgressor of law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision."

Romans Chapter 2


Now I really don't believe that Paul was a schizophrenic. I've been meticulously going over this letter verse by verse. I just completed Chapter 13; and so far Paul hasn't contradicted himself in context. I have every intention of going over all of pals letters, letter by letter, verse by verse.

Paul calls us to be Torah observant. In this letter he says that circumcision is of no benefit; if you are not Torah observant.

 

[HARK!]

I am Goi (Gentile in Hebrew).

(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

(CLV) Ex 12:49
One law shall there be for both the native and for the sojourner sojourning in your midst.

One Elohim

Where is YHWH's covenant with the Goi?

 

[dqhall]

(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

(CLV) Ex 12:49
One law shall there be for both the native and for the sojourner sojourning in your midst.

One Elohim

Where is YHWH's covenant with the Goi?

Many Jews rejected Jesus’ teachings claiming he was blaspheming. Paul experienced hostility from Jews zealous for the Torah. Paul, himself a Greek speaking a Jew, preached the Gospel to the Greeks. Paul went first to the synagogues and also attracted Gentiles who were friends of Jews. The Gospels were passed down to us in Greek as Gentiles were becoming Christian. There is some Aramaic in the Gospel of Mark. I presume there may have been Aramaic Gospels that did not survive. The first 12 disciples spoke Aramaic, a Semitic dialect. The first century Dead Sea Scrolls were in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek.

 

[Bob S]

Hi Hark, we have been through all of this before. Torah means the law given only to Israel. It consisted of approximately 613 laws, Some dealt with morality, some civil, some health and some ritual or ceremonial. Israel failed in all phases of that system of laws. We know that laws dealing with morality are forever and are what the new covenant law of love contains. All the remainder of the Torah were laws given only to Israel through the covenant that ended at Calvary where the new covenant was ratified with the blood of Jesus. Gentiles, since Noah, have been under the Noahide laws. I cannot find anyplace in all of the New Testament where that has changed. Your twisting the meaning of your opening post does not change that fact. The word "law" can have several meanings as does the word "commandments". There is an over amount of evidence that Paul didn't mean that Christians are to be under any part of the old covenant save the laws dealing with morality which the new testament upholds as did/do all of God's covenants.

You even admitted that you cannot observe a great part of the Torah yet you keep telling us that we are under it. If you are so inclined why don't you start laying stones for the Temple so that you are able to observe the 613 laws you say you are under. No one is stopping you. The old saying is "put your money where your mouth is".

 

[HARK!]

Many Jews rejected Jesus’ teachings claiming he was blaspheming. Paul experienced hostility from Jews zealous for the Torah. Paul, himself a Greek speaking a Jew, preached the Gospel to the Greeks. Paul went first to the synagogues and also attracted Gentiles who were friends of Jews. The Gospels were passed down to us in Greek as Gentiles were becoming Christian. There is some Aramaic in the Gospel of Mark. I presume there may have been Aramaic Gospels that did not survive. The first 12 disciples spoke Aramaic, a Semitic dialect. The first century Dead Sea Scrolls were in Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek.

How is this relevant to my post?

 

[HARK!]

Hi Hark, we have been through all of this before. Torah means the law given only to Israel.

We have. I keep backing up my assertion with scripture. You keep backing up your speculation on a bare assertion.

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, [Yahshua] answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."


(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.


(CLV) Ex 12:49
One law shall there be for both the native and for the sojourner sojourning in your midst.

It consisted of approximately 613 laws, Some dealt with morality, some civil, some health and some ritual or ceremonial.

You're speaking past tense. The law written on my heart exceeds the 613.

For example, even though it is not written specifically in the Law that Moses wrote down; I know that it is unlawful to take a motor cycle and do doughnuts on my neighbor's lawn. The law exceeded the 613 examples that Moses wrote down; that is why there were judges at the gates.

Israel failed in all phases of that system of laws.

So has Israel today. Yahshua didn't fail. He calls us to follow his example.

We know that laws dealing with morality are forever

How do you know this? It is specifically stated that each of the Modedim are forever, in Leviticus 23. Exodus 31:17 states that the sabbath is forever.
the Decalogue is forever Deut 4:40. The Deut 5:29 says that all of YHWH's instructions are eternal. As a side note Most of what Yahshua said was right out of scripture; and he quoted Deuteronomy most often.

So which laws have you decided are moral?

and are what the new covenant law of love contains.

There is nothing new about the law of love.

(CLV) Dt 6:5
So you will love YHWH your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your intensity.

(CLV) Lv 19:18
You shall not avenge nor shall you be resentful against the sons of your people. You will love › your associate as yourself: I am YHWH.

All the remainder of the Torah were laws given only to Israel

(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

If you are not Israel, not by blood, but by faith; then you are not in covenant.

through the covenant that ended at Calvary where the new covenant was ratified with the blood of Jesus.

What does Paul say about this covenant, in this letter?

12 for whoever sinned without the law, without law also shall perish, and whoever sinned in law, through law will be judged."
13 For not the listeners to law are just with God, but the doers of law shall be justified."
Romans Chapter 2

30 Yes, of the nations also, if so be that God is One, Who will be justifying the Circumcision out of faith and the Uncircumcision through faith." 31 Are we, then, nullifying law through faith? May it not be coming to that! Nay, we are sustaining law."
Romans Chapter 3

, that Sin may become an inordinate sinner through the precept." 14 For we are aware that the law is spiritual, yet I am fleshly, having been disposed of under Sin." 15 For what I am effecting I know not, for not what I will, this I am putting into practice, but what I am hating, this I am doing." 16 Now if what I am not willing, this I am doing, I am conceding that the law is ideal."

21 Consequently, I am finding the law that, at my willing to be doing the ideal, the evil is lying beside me." 22 For I am gratified with the law of God as to the man within,

25 I thank God, through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Consequently, then, I myself, with the mind, indeed, am slaving for God's law, yet with the flesh for Sin's law."
Romans Chapter 7

4 that the just requirement of the law may be fulfilled in us, who are not walking in accord with flesh, but in accord with spirit."

7 because the disposition of the flesh is enmity to God, for it is not subject to the law of God, for neither is it able." 8 Now those who are in flesh are not able to please God.
Romans Chapter 8

Then right in this very thread:

5 For Moses is writing of the righteousness which is of law, that a man who does the same shall be living in it."


How did you miss all of this?

Gentiles, since Noah, have been under the Noahide laws. I cannot find anyplace in all of the New Testament where that has changed.

Why do you apply a different standard to the law that YHWH Noah, than to the law that YHWH gave to Moses. Paul doesn't.

Your twisting the meaning of your opening post does not change that fact. The word "law" can have several meanings as does the word "commandments"

Twisting? The whole purpose of this series was to point that very fact out.


Notice:

Legal Terms:

The Law of Faith (Ch 3)
A Different Law (Ch 7)
The Law of My Mind (Ch 7)
The Law of Sin (Sin's Law) (Ch 7)
God's Law (Ch 7)
The Spirit's Law of Life (Ch 8)
The Law of Sin and Death (Ch 8)
The Law of Righteousness (Ch 9

Which of these laws do you believe that you are to follow?
Which of these laws do you believe that you should reject?

Did you even read through this thread (let alone this series) before you came in and started making arguments?

There is an over amount of evidence that Paul didn't mean that Christians are to be under any part of the old covenant save the laws dealing with morality which the new testament upholds as did/do all of God's covenants

You obviously haven't read this letter for comprehension. You obviously haven't read through this series, where I broke it down step by step. You need to go back and understand what you are arguing, before you make your argument.

You even admitted that you cannot observe a great part of the Torah yet you keep telling us that we are under it.

How is that? Because I'm not a woman? Because I'm not a Levite Priest?

puhlease....

If you are so inclined why don't you start laying stones for the Temple so that you are able to observe the 613 laws you say you are under.

It is already being built by YHWH. I am one of the stones. The first stone was rejected by men.

 

[Bob S]

We have. I keep backing up my assertion with scripture. You keep backing up your speculation on a bare assertion.

You know that is not true Hark. The fact is you reject all the scripture I have submitted. Example" Gal 3: Oh, foolish Galatians! Who has cast an evil spell on you? For the meaning of Jesus Christ’s death was made as clear to you as if you had seen a picture of his death on the cross. 2 Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the Holy Spirit by obeying the law of Moses? Of course not! You received the Spirit because you believed the message you heard about Christ.

10 But those who depend on the law to make them right with God are under his curse, for the Scriptures say, “Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all the commands that are written in God’s Book of the Law.”

13 But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.” 14 Through Christ Jesus, God has blessed the Gentiles with the same blessing he promised to Abraham, so that we who are believers might receive the promised Holy Spirit through faith. 15 Dear brothers and sisters, here’s an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or amend an irrevocable agreement, so it is in this case. 16 God gave the promises to Abraham and his child. And notice that the Scripture doesn’t say “to his children,” as if it meant many descendants. Rather, it says “to his child”—and that, of course, means Christ. 17 This is what I am trying to say: The agreement God made with Abraham could not be canceled 430 years later when God gave the law to Moses. God would be breaking his promise. 18 For if the inheritance could be received by keeping the law, then it would not be the result of accepting God’s promise. But God graciously gave it to Abraham as a promise. 19 Why, then, was the law given? It was given alongside the promise to show people their sins. But the law was designed to last only until the coming of the child who was promised. 24 Let me put it another way. The law was our guardian until Christ came; it protected us until we could be made right with God through faith. 25 And now that the way of faith has come, we no longer need the law as our guardian.

For example, even though it is not written specifically in the Law that Moses wrote down; I know that it is unlawful to take a motor cycle and do doughnuts on my neighbor's lawn. The law exceeded the 613 examples that Moses wrote down; that is why there were judges at the gates.

Absolutely, it is against your fellow man, morality is forever. That is a good example of a moral issue and it comes under the beautiful new law that Jesus in jn 15:10 when you obey my commandments, you remain in my love, just as I obey my Father’s commandments and remain in his love. 11 I have told you these things so that you will be filled with my joy. Yes, your joy will overflow! 12 This is my commandment: Love each other in the same way I have loved you. 13 There is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.

So has Israel today. Yahshua didn't fail. He calls us to follow his example.

You wrote yourself that you cannot do all the law says concerning the lay Israelite. So why are you telling us we have to keep Torah?

How do you know this? It is specifically stated that each of the Modedim are forever, in Leviticus 23. Exodus 31:17 states that the sabbath is forever.
the Decalogue is forever Deut 4:40. The Deut 5:29 says that all of YHWH's instructions are eternal. As a side note Most of what Yahshua said was right out of scripture; and he quoted Deuteronomy most often.

Yes, they certainly were "IF" Israel obeyed them. See Ex 19:5-6. It says someplace that those who live by the law must obey all the law. You admit you do not obey all the law that would pertain to you. So, what is your fate?

So which laws have you decided are moral?

Easy, the hundreds of morality issues that would hurt God, our fellow man and ourselves. Nine of the ten commandments are about morality. That is a start. Gal 5 lists a few more.

If you are not Israel, not by blood, but by faith; then you are not in covenant.

I have scripture to disprove your statement: Gal3:26 For you are all children of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 And all who have been united with Christ in baptism have put on Christ, like putting on new clothes. 28 There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And now that you belong to Christ, you are the true children of Abraham. You are his heirs, and God’s promise to Abraham belongs to you. AMEN!!!!!

As I have stated many times Israel is a defunct nation. The covenant God made with Israel is defunct, ended at Calvary. Thank you Jesus!

What does Paul say about this covenant, in this letter?

12 for whoever sinned without the law, without law also shall perish, and whoever sinned in law, through law will be judged."
13 For not the listeners to law are just with God, but the doers of law shall be justified."
Romans Chapter 2

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/romans-chapter-2.8150509/

30 Yes, of the nations also, if so be that God is One, Who will be justifying the Circumcision out of faith and the Uncircumcision through faith." 31 Are we, then, nullifying law through faith? May it not be coming to that! Nay, we are sustaining law."
Romans Chapter 3

, that Sin may become an inordinate sinner through the precept." 14 For we are aware that the law is spiritual, yet I am fleshly, having been disposed of under Sin." 15 For what I am effecting I know not, for not what I will, this I am putting into practice, but what I am hating, this I am doing." 16 Now if what I am not willing, this I am doing, I am conceding that the law is ideal."

21 Consequently, I am finding the law that, at my willing to be doing the ideal, the evil is lying beside me." 22 For I am gratified with the law of God as to the man within,

25 I thank God, through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Consequently, then, I myself, with the mind, indeed, am slaving for God's law, yet with the flesh for Sin's law."
Romans Chapter 7

4 that the just requirement of the law may be fulfilled in us, who are not walking in accord with flesh, but in accord with spirit."

7 because the disposition of the flesh is enmity to God, for it is not subject to the law of God, for neither is it able." 8 Now those who are in flesh are not able to please God.
Romans Chapter 8

Then right in this very thread:

5 For Moses is writing of the righteousness which is of law, that a man who does the same shall be living in it."


How did you miss all of this?

[/QUOTE]I didn't miss a jot, but surely you missed this "
Rom3:21 But now God has shown us a way to be made right with him without keeping the requirements of the law, as was promised in the writings of Moses and the prophets long ago. 22 We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are.
23 For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard. 24 Yet God, in his grace, freely makes us right in his sight. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins. 25 For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, 26 for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he makes sinners right in his sight when they believe in Jesus.

27 Can we boast, then, that we have done anything to be accepted by God? No, because our acquittal is not based on obeying the law. It is based on faith. 28 So we are made right with God through faith and not by obeying the law.

29 After all, is God the God of the Jews only? Isn’t he also the God of the Gentiles? Of course he is. 30 There is only one God, and he makes people right with himself only by faith, whether they are Jews or Gentiles. 31 Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law."

Why do you apply a different standard to the law that YHWH Noah, than to the law that YHWH gave to Moses. Paul doesn't.

There was, according to Moses in Deut 5 new covenant given to Israel: 2 “The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Mount Sinai. 3 The Lord did not make this covenant with our ancestors, but with all of us who are alive today.

Twisting? The whole purpose of this series was to point that very fact out.

Well then why are you hesitating?

Did you even read through this thread (let alone this series) before you came in and started making arguments?

I have read enough to know you are trying to lead us down a dead end.

You obviously haven't read this letter for comprehension. You obviously haven't read through this series, where I broke it down step by step. You need to go back and understand what you are arguing, before you make your argument.

What you have done is to take a bunch of cherry picked verses to make a statement that doesn't match the message of the New Testament.

How is that? Because I'm not a woman? Because I'm not a Levite Priest?

Keep going and you will stumble on to many laws that you could follow if if you had the inclination.

It is already being built by YHWH. I am one of the stones. The first stone was rejected by men.

Be careful and don't get covered with mud and let us know when you are finished. I would like to see a picture of it with a fire roasting a big bull.

 

[HARK!]

The fact is you reject all the scripture I have submitted. Example" Gal 3:

What you are submitting isn't scripture.

2 Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the Holy Spirit by obeying the law of Moses?

(CLV) Ga 3:2
This only I want to learn from you: Did you get the spirit by works of law or by the hearing of faith?

2 τοῦτο μόνον θέλω μαθεῖν ἀφ’ ὑμῶν, ἐξ ἔργων νόμου τὸ πνεῦμα ἐλάβετε ἢ ἐξ ἀκοῆς πίστεως;


Here is a resource for you: Galatians 3:2 Lexicon

If you don't trust that resource; you are welcomed to present your own.

Now tell me; where do you see "Moses" in that text?

I just went over how Paul refers to at least 8 different laws in this letter alone:

Legal Terms:

The Law of Faith (Ch 3)
A Different Law (Ch 7)
The Law of My Mind (Ch 7)
The Law of Sin (Sin's Law) (Ch 7)
God's Law (Ch 7)
The Spirit's Law of Life (Ch 8)
The Law of Sin and Death (Ch 8)
The Law of Righteousness (Ch 9)

Now you want to present a faulty translation to make an assertion that the Law of Moses was somehow abolished.

Paul didn't refer to the Law of Moses in this letter; but he did mention YHWH's Law. He says that we are to sustain it; which is in line with Yahshua saying that it will not pass away before heaven nor Earth.


I'm doing study on Galatians right now, in preparation for my next series. It appears that the law which Paul is speaking of here, is none of the ones I have listed above. It appears that he's talking about the Talmud; but I'll reserve judgement on that until I've thoroughly studied this out.


How do I even begin to comb through an argument built on a biased faulty translation?

 

[HARK!]

You wrote yourself that you cannot do all the law says concerning the lay Israelite. So why are you telling us we have to keep Torah?

Would you care to quote me on that?

In what context?

If so, does that mean that I abandon my obedience, to YHWH through love, and faith that his words are truth?

 

[HARK!]

Yes, they certainly were

Were is past tense. Forever is forever.