Paul not under the Law - but subject to the law of Christ.

[GDL]

Gentiles do not have the law:
Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.
R 2:14

To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), to win those under the law. To those without the law I became like one without the law (though I am not outside the law of God but am under the law of Christ), to win those without the law.
1Cor 9:21

Peter (being a Christian Jew) did not live like a Jew:
I said to Cephas in front of them all, “If you, who are a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?
Gal 2:14

Apart from some translation specifics:

1. Does not having the Law mean that they are not within the jurisdiction of sovereign God's Law?
2. Since some Gentiles who do not have the Law are doing [some of] the Law by nature, does this not mean that God has instilled [some of] His Law into the hearts and minds of men? And if God has done this, is it part of all men being within and responsible to God Law? You probably should have included the continuation of Rom2:14 - NKJ Romans 2:15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)
   1. So, not having the [written] Law, they nevertheless have [some of] it written in their hearts. Who wrote it there? If He wrote it there, are they responsible to Him?
3. Paul not being under Law, and Paul not being without Law, Paul did not live like a man without Law, but lived as "in Law of Christ." "In Law" is a word (ennomos) used twice in the Text. In Acts19:39 it's translated as "lawful". It's an adjective. Most literally it says in 1Cor9:21 "a lawful man of Christ." So, "not being a lawless man of God - a man without law of God - but a lawful man of Christ." Paul is not lawless but lawful and no matter the culture he goes into to witness for Christ, he never lives lawlessly.
4. Gal2:14 is simply more of Paul saying we're not under law (we're in the new era in Christ), so don't let those from Jerusalem make you forget this and pass the old era under law and works of law to the Gentiles we're bringing into Christ.

 

[GDL]

As a guy who worked on large computer systems prior to the advent of the personal computer was taught, 'garbage in, garbage out." Logic can also be applied to a false premise, so the logical conclusion will also be false. I worked on many systems that were fed garbage only to produce garbage.

We never look to any politician or national law for our moral obedience. We always and forever look to God, whose moral law existed prior to Moses, was included in Moses, and remains in Christ. What we get from Moses is the greatest and most comprehensive writing of God's Law that has ever been given, along with some regulations that were specific to what was to be a holy nation, a priest nation, living under a true theocracy.

Then, given Israel's failure, when the Prophet greater than Moses - the seed of David (Kingship) - the seed of Abraham (promised Spirit) arrived, if we were there to watch and listen to Jesus Christ Son of God, we would have seen not only God's Law and Mosaic Law lived perfectly as it applied to a male, but we would have seen a perfect example of the righteous God Himself.

God's righteous character never changes and His requirement for His righteous character to be reflected in man never changes no matter the politician nor the culture nor the era of a Covenant, nor its Law. By His Law (in mind and hearts) and/namely His Spirit, those from any nation and any culture and any social status in Christ will be conformed to His righteous likeness.

 

[GDL]

Romans 1 deals with unrighteous mankind, whether Jew or Gentile.
Romans 2 continues with this context.

• 2:5-6 says all men will be judged when God's Righteous Judgment - God's just/fair verdict) is revealed and God will recompense men for their works
  • 2:7 some of all men will be recompensed with eternal life
    • They persevere in good work, seeking glory and honor and immortality - and we know this comes only by grace through faith that Jesus is Christ
  • 2:8 other of all men will be recompensed with wrath/retribution and wrath/rage - Paul says these are the ones who do not obey the truth - they obey unrighteousness (which John and elsewhere ties to sin, which is lawlessness)
    • In Scripture there is obedience to truth, obedience to the Gospel, obedience to obedience, obedience to righteousness, obedience to Jesus Christ, obedience to God, salvation for those who obey Jesus Christ, and obedience is used interchangeably with faith at times, etc.
    • Obedience to unrighteousness/sin/lawlessness will clearly be judged by God in His just/fair verdict and this verdict will be applied to all men.
  • 2:9 continues 2:8 every soul of man who does evil (obeys unrighteousness/sin/lawlessness), whether Jew or Greek will be judged in retribution & rage, affliction and anguish.
  • 2:10 Glory, honor, peace to every man - Jews or Greeks - who do good.
  • 2:11 Explanation: God is impartial
  • 2:12 More explanation:
    • Whatever number of men sin anomōs will also perish anomōs
      • nomos means law - the alpha (a) at the beginning in some way negates law
      • anomōs here is adverbial - it modifies the verb "sin" - so it is describing sinful action
      • BDAG Lexicon re: anomōs:
        • without participation in an organized legal system, lawlessly, ὅσοι ἀ. ἥμαρτον ἀ. καὶ ἀπολοῦνται those who sin without law will also be lost without law, i.e. those who sin without awareness of the Mosaic law e*xpressed from the vantage point of Israel’s chosen status) will also perish without reference to it: Ro 2:12 (=χωρὶς νόμου 7:9
          • My note: χωρὶς νόμου 7:9 means separate from law
      • My note: It doesn't matter if you are Jew or Gentile and sin anomōs/without participating in organized law - you'll be judged by God for sin/unrighteousness/lawlessness/disobedience to truth/ultimately and simply disobedience to God's Law
      • My note: Going back to some old research and running another search in some Greek texts, this seems the only time this word anomōs is used in the Bible
    • Whatever number of men sinned "in law" will be judged though/by law
      • This does not say "under law" - it's the same phrase Paul uses in Rom3:19 where he says every mouth will be stopped (no excuses) and all the world will be guilty before God
      • IMO this is telling us of the global jurisdiction of God's Law
  • 2:13 More explanation:
    • Men who hear law are not righteous/just [men] (pertains to being in accordance to high standards) before God
    • Men who do law will be vindicated/shown justice/proven right/released from claims
  • 2:14-16 More explanation: There are nations that do not have law, they do law by nature, they are law to themselves, they show the work of law written in their heart, their consciences & reasoning functioning to accuse and defend them, when God judges the hidden things of men through Jesus Christ according to Paul's Gospel
    • For Paul to use this as an example, he has to be remaining in the context of God's righteousness
  • 2:17 Paul begins his comparative discussion about the Jews and their Law.
  • 2:27 Note how Paul compares the completing (teleo) of "the Law" by the physically uncircumcised (Gentiles) vs. the violation of the Law by the Jews who have it through writing
    • What Law are the Gentiles completing - God's Law - or the written Mosaic Law [containing God's Law]?

The comparison here is whether all men are completing God's Law or violating it whether or not they have it in writing.

This section of Scripture is obviously about all men, no matter their race, obeying or disobeying God. It doesn't matter if men don't participate in law, whether they have law, whether they violate written law - all men will be judged guilty for sin (lawlessness) apart from participation in Law or in Law. The only visible acquittal stated or inferred here are for those who obey truth, do Law, complete Law, do and remain doing good works. We know this comes only through faith in Jesus Christ.

​

 

[trophy33]

So, in Japan they can murder, be adulterous, fornicate, steal, perjure, covet, etc... and all is well as long as it's cultural? Even though God is sovereign over the world and Jesus Christ has all authority in Heaven and on earth, cultural behavior trumps His glory? And this is the case in 5th or 21st centuries as long as sin, which is lawlessness, was or is cultural? So, God never put all of humanity within the jurisdiction of His Law and when He judges all people as sinful, it's without explanation other than He can do what He wants?

Assuming my assumptions from above are incorrect and not what you're saying, will you elaborate what you mean?

For example murder is quite a clear evil. But for example what it means to honor somebody is very different culturally.

 

[trophy33]

And we in Christ in Spirit must judge based upon the written Word of God - including His written Law - rightly divided/understood.

No matter the culture, God is sovereign over His creation and ultimately, it's what dishonors, rebels against, is unfaithful to, disobeys God no matter the race, borders or culture.

There are no grey areas. There is lack of understanding and wisdom.

Most of areas are grey areas, thats why we have judges and not just laws.

 

[trophy33]

Apart from some translation specifics:

1. Does not having the Law mean that they are not within the jurisdiction of sovereign God's Law?
2. Since some Gentiles who do not have the Law are doing [some of] the Law by nature, does this not mean that God has instilled [some of] His Law into the hearts and minds of men? And if God has done this, is it part of all men being within and responsible to God Law? You probably should have included the continuation of Rom2:14 - NKJ Romans 2:15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)
   1. So, not having the [written] Law, they nevertheless have [some of] it written in their hearts. Who wrote it there? If He wrote it there, are they responsible to Him?
3. Paul not being under Law, and Paul not being without Law, Paul did not live like a man without Law, but lived as "in Law of Christ." "In Law" is a word (ennomos) used twice in the Text. In Acts19:39 it's translated as "lawful". It's an adjective. Most literally it says in 1Cor9:21 "a lawful man of Christ." So, "not being a lawless man of God - a man without law of God - but a lawful man of Christ." Paul is not lawless but lawful and no matter the culture he goes into to witness for Christ, he never lives lawlessly.
4. Gal2:14 is simply more of Paul saying we're not under law (we're in the new era in Christ), so don't let those from Jerusalem make you forget this and pass the old era under law and works of law to the Gentiles we're bringing into Christ.

Non-Jews had never had the Mosaic Law (not sure what English tense to use, here).

To be under the Law of Christ is to be obedient to Christ and to the new covenant.

All nations have natural laws - their conscience and the secular rules that are needed for the society to live in peace. In many cases it intersect with some fundamental laws God gave to Jews or to Christians. For example not being violent, not stealing, not taking a woman who belongs to somebody else, are quite universal. Most of the Mosaic Law was not universal, though.

 

[GDL]

For example murder is quite a clear evil. But for example what it means to honor somebody is very different culturally.

I agree, murder is clearly evil. Soulhlasim ze vrazda je zjevne zlo. Culture is irrelevant.

I'm hesitant to agree that there is lack of definition to such things as honoring somebody Biblically. The Bible is supposed to influence culture, not the reverse. It can certainly be a lot of work to determine what such words include. But, in the end they need to legitimately fit into the Love God and Love Neighbor commands, which are defined in God's Law and not man's culture.

 

[GDL]

Most of areas are grey areas, thats why we have judges and not just laws.

Again, grey meaning lack of understanding and wisdom. IMO, the more we know, the wiser we are, the less grey.

 

[GDL]

Non-Jews had never had the Mosaic Law (not sure what English tense to use, here).

To be under the Law of Christ is to be obedient to Christ and to the new covenant.

All nations have natural laws - their conscience and the secular rules that are needed for the society to live in peace. In many cases it intersect with some fundamental laws God gave to Jews or to Christians. For example not being violent, not stealing, not taking a woman who belongs to somebody else, are quite universal. Most of the Mosaic Law was not universal, though.

There was a mixed-multitude of races that came out of Egypt with the Hebrews to Sinai. Mosaic Law provided for proselytes. The Law of Christ contains Law from Moses.

There is no verse that specifically says Christians are under the Law of Christ. Open a Czech (my assumption) translation that hopefully was translated from Greek and see how it translates some of the "under [the] law" verses compared to English translations. If you need help in Greek, please feel free to ask. Begin with 1Cor9:21.

"Most of the Mosaic Law" not being universal I would agree with in a sense, but this would only begin a conversation. With your focus on cultures, we would likely soon disagree. If a nation's secular laws conflict with God's Law, then the nation is in conflict with God and the peace is ultimately false. There is a great divide in the US now. Secular laws at some point cannot keep peace as they must sooner or later lean one way or another way. The Biblical story is that external law fails, God's Law on hearts will not fail. There will be a land where righteousness dwells. Unrighteousness will be ended.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I do not understand your question. The book of Proverbs is not Law.

Sorry poor wording on my part.

I don't mean proverbs is Law.

I am pointing to God's character.

Do not these fundamental aspects of God's character stand regardless of what Law was given ?

16 There are six things that the Lord hates,
seven that are an abomination to him:
17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue,
and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 a heart that devises wicked plans,
feet that make haste to run to evil,
19 a false witness who breathes out lies,
and one who sows discord among brothers. Proverbs 6

 

[Carl Emerson]

Excused. Sometimes our rambling is just expressing the process we need to think through to reach the point. I know this is my process.

IMO it kind of goes like this (begin rambling): Hebrew is a very pictorial language in a sense. The root word begins the thought and what's developed from the root can many times create a picture in our mind that's related to the root (this was my experience when I worked with it more than I have in years since then). Greek is very precise. Although there is quite a range of meaning in words, it can be boiled down to saying something very specific that it may take an English paragraph to define and for translators and interpreters it's quite a bit of work at times to conclude what's being said. For example, many if not most of the times we read "of" in the NC it's a grammatical structure that can be translated many ways to provide more specificity of what's being said. A simple example; 1John5:3 love of God or love for God or? The default translation is most always "of".

A well-versed in the Biblical languages teacher once said in a class something like "we can't think beyond our vocabulary." Words are vital. God uses words to mean things specific. I've used years of Greek instruction and practice to revert back to some basics of doing some very lengthy word studies in our Text. They've done more for my learning than almost anything. I know that learning even re: those words is not finished.

With all that said, apart from Him we can do nothing and apart from His Spirit all the language study is just a tool to analyze an ancient Text. But in Christ and with His Spirit those studies are a very useful tool to interact with Him, at least they have been for me and others who have them.

Mental vs. Spiritual: At one level I see no difference (I'll leave some for you without my notes).

NKJ Proverbs 1:23 Turn at my rebuke; Surely I will pour out my spirit on you; I will make my words known to you.

• The last 2 clauses are parallel meaning they are saying the same thing. If we have His Spirit, then we know His words.

NKJ Rom. 8:27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

NKJ Eph. 4:23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind,

• Remembering what I said about "of" - this could be translated "...in your spirit meaning in your mind."

NKJ Phil. 1:27 Only let your conduct be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel,

• I wish we all were in this state

NKJ 2 Tim. 1:7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

Knowledge & Freedom:

NKJ John 8:31-32 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 "And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

• The context of this says the freedom provided by this knowledge is freedom from sin

NKJ Titus 1:1 Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according (with regard) to the faith of God's elect and (can be translated as "meaning" or "namely") the acknowledgment (practical knowledge - knowledge to be used) of the truth which accords with (for the purpose/goal of) godliness (living a willingly obedient, righteous and holy life towards God our Father as did our first-born Brother and Lord Jesus Christ),

• I use the NKJ because I'm used to searching in it and because it's fairly literal. I don't rely on it or any English translation.
• If you look at several English versions, you'll note differences (as usual).
• My parenthetical notes concern some range of translation choices for these words.
• The word translated as "acknowledgement" and "godliness" here, are two of those extensive word studies I mentioned I've done.
• The translations "according to" and "which accords" are some of those default translations I mentioned, like "of", but there is a range of meaning to these words and their parsing.
• So, our Faith (originated and completed by Jesus Christ Heb12:2) is the practical knowledge of truth for godliness (a life like Christs).
• A lot to agree or disagree with here, but godly thinking and behavior is related to knowledge of truth, just as knowledge will make us fee [from sin]. Actually, then, John8:31-32 and Titus1:1 are saying the same thing. From Jesus we get knowledge that will make us free from sin / make us live obediently to God. Knowledge. Mentality. Spirituality (see below).

NKJ 1 Timothy 2:3-4 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

• Same word as in Titus 1:1 "practical knowledge"
• "and" here can be translated (as I noted in Titus 1:1) as "meaning" or "namely"
• So, our salvation can be a parallel to coming "into" (literal Greek) practical knowledge of Truth.
• Now compare John 8, Titus 1, 1 Timothy 1, and they're basically all saying the same thing; salvation - free from sin - godly living - saved. In addition, all are related to knowledge, and via Titus 1, our Faith originated by Jesus Christ and His teaching us this practical knowledge.

Spiritual:

NKJ Heb. 5:13-14 For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled (lack of knowledge or capacity to do something) in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. 14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses (faculties for discernment) exercised to discern both good and evil.

• The 2 parenthetic notes are definitions per BDAG Lexicon.
• The difference between the mature (a "telos" cognate) and the child is knowledge of the "Word of Righteousness"
• From the Word of Righteousness, the mature has faculties that become well exercised (gumnazo - think of our "gym") to evaluate both good and bad. This is mentaility once again.

NKJ 1 Corinthians 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ.

• Paul uses this same word "babe" (nepios) used in Heb5:13 - and parallels it to being fleshly - and contrasts it with being "spiritual"
• If we read in context, he's talking about being able to give them only milk and not solid food (basic vs. advanced teaching - same language as Heb5)
• So, the spiritual Christian has advanced knowledge and from Hebrews this would mean having developed faculties to distinguish both good and bad in accordance with the Word of Righteousness. Consider all we have discussed in your thread re: knowledge of what is sin through the study of God's [Righteous] Law).
• We now have a tie between having practical knowledge of Truth (which can make us free from sin, godly, saved) and this knowledge is tied to being Spiritual.

NKJ Galatians 6:1-2 Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass (violation), you who are spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted. 2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

• So, a "spiritual" person (per Paul and Hebrews is a Christian with advanced learning who has well-exercised [mental] faculties able to distinguish good & bad based upon God's Righteous Word) is able to identify "any" violation (violation of what???) and thus able to help restore another who has been "overtaken" in some/any violation (violation of moral standards, offense, wrongdoing, sin BDAG). By so doing, the Spiritual Christian can fulfill Messianic Law.
• I see this as imitating Christ who bore our sin burden on the cross.
• I thus see this as fulfilling Christ's command to love one another as He loved us and gave Himself for us. See John 13:34-35 and John 15:12-17 and ponder these with all of the above. Note in John15:35 how Jesus ties this to being His disciples (students). Note in John 15:14-15 Jesus ties this to being His friends and having taught them (KNOWLEDGE) of all that God gave Him to teach them. And from there Jesus ties this to going and bearing fruit.

Mentality is Spirituality. Is there more to the word "spirit"? Sure. But it doesn't negate the fact that according to the way the word of God speaks, mentality with truth and spirituality are one and the same.

So, take this out to all the non-Christians who say they are very spiritual people. Not Biblically and apart from Christ and God's Spirit they're not. Nor are childish/fleshly Christians. Assuming we desire to speak like the Word of God speaks.

Pardon the length, but you asked and I rambled.

Yes I sense meat in your offering - reminds me of Dr. David Stewart and Prof. Blaiklock who were my mentors at college.

We are privileged to have you with us.

I see some heading for the ministry with considerable intellectual prowess but in need of spiritual depth that only comes from encounters with Him.

We seem to have lost a sense of the Fear of God among us.

My focus has been on following Him - this is fundamental to His call but little spoken about.

For this reason I strongly argue for hearing His voice as this is fundamental to relationship.

My focus then is on His living Word available to us and able to guide as the Law never could.

Timing in following is critical.

Seeing what the Father is doing needs to be learned.

Acting beyond but not in contradiction to principle - hearing specific instruction.

This opens up an awesome life of partnering in His work as He leads.

Thanks for helping to keep this thread steady.

 

[GDL]

We seem to have lost a sense of the Fear of God among us.

Much agreed.

My focus has been on following Him - this is fundamental to His call but little spoken about.

Following Him & discipleship (learning from Him/His Word) are tied together.

For this reason I strongly argue for hearing His voice as this is fundamental to relationship.

My focus then is on His living Word available to us and able to guide as the Law never could.

Part of hearing His voice is learning His word and having Him illuminate our understanding.

His Commandments are part of His Living Word. His Spirit and our Father's functioning inside us will assist us to desire and do what pleases Him.

Thanks for your kind words.

 

[trophy33]

I agree, murder is clearly evil. Soulhlasim ze vrazda je zjevne zlo. Culture is irrelevant.

I'm hesitant to agree that there is lack of definition to such things as honoring somebody Biblically. The Bible is supposed to influence culture, not the reverse. It can certainly be a lot of work to determine what such words include. But, in the end they need to legitimately fit into the Love God and Love Neighbor commands, which are defined in God's Law and not man's culture.

For example, in some cultures (like England), abortion is not seen as a murder. In some cultures (like Poland, Malta) it is seen as a murder.

In some countries, when a state kills a person in the justice system (like in the EU), its seen as a murder. In some countries (USA, Iran, China), not.

In some countries, police shooting to kill has much more loose policy (for example USA or South America) than in others (for example the countries of Scandinavia). So if an American policeman did what he is used to do in the USA, while being on a holiday in Sweden, he could be easily a murderer.

In some countries, its unacceptable to get rid of old parents, its dishonoring them and seen as terrible. In some countries (for example USA or the EU countries) its very common to put old parents to retirement homes where they are alone and die alone. Even Christians do it and do not see it as dishonoring their parents.

 

[trophy33]

Again, grey meaning lack of understanding and wisdom. IMO, the more we know, the wiser we are, the less grey.

Grey meaning that the context changes whether the act (like killing somebody) was morally acceptable or not. If something was stealing or not. Etc.

 

[trophy33]

There was a mixed-multitude of races that came out of Egypt with the Hebrews to Sinai. Mosaic Law provided for proselytes.

I do not know how mixed they were when they left Egypt, but to be the part of the Mosaic Law proselytes had to be circumcised and join the Jewish nation. It was not given to other nations as such.

There is no verse that specifically says Christians are under the Law of Christ.

Jesus being Lord means we are under his law.

Paul said he is under it (1Cor 9:21) and that Galatians should fulfill it (Gal 6:2).

Open a Czech (my assumption) translation that hopefully was translated from Greek and see how it translates some of the "under [the] law" verses compared to English translations. If you need help in Greek, please feel free to ask. Begin with 1Cor9:21.

I use biblehub.com. Do you mean that English translations are bad?

 

[trophy33]

Sorry poor wording on my part.

I don't mean proverbs is Law.

I am pointing to God's character.

Do not these fundamental aspects of God's character stand regardless of what Law was given ?

16 There are six things that the Lord hates,
seven that are an abomination to him:
17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue,
and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 a heart that devises wicked plans,
feet that make haste to run to evil,
19 a false witness who breathes out lies,
and one who sows discord among brothers. Proverbs 6

Yes, they do.

 

[GDL]

For example, in some cultures (like England), abortion is not seen as a murder. In some cultures (like Poland, Malta) it is seen as a murder.

In some countries, when a state kills a person in the justice system (like in the EU), its seen as a murder. In some countries (USA, Iran, China), not.

In some countries, police shooting to kill has much more loose policy (for example USA or South America) than in others (for example the countries of Scandinavia).

In some countries, its unacceptable to get rid of the old parents, its dishonoring them and seen as terrible. In some countries (for example USA or the EU countries) its very common to put old parents to retirement homes where they are alone and die alone.

There's no argument that nations' laws vary widely. The question is what the Biblical position is. This is the point. I'm not suggesting it's easy to know, especially since there are so few who seem to care.

I'm familiar with a Christian who has done a lot of studies on the US Constitution comparing it to the Bible. His opinion of the USC is very low. In the same light, I was reading an article from an Israeli legal perspective re the USC and the Tanakh. His view of it was also that it was not God oriented but humanistic.

I guess part of the point of the return of Christ is that we'll see what His government looks like. I doubt there will be diversity in righteousness.

 

[trophy33]

There's no argument that nations' laws vary widely. The question is what the Biblical position is. This is the point. I'm not suggesting it's easy to know, especially since there are so few who seem to care.

I'm familiar with a Christian who has done a lot of studies on the US Constitution comparing it to the Bible. His opinion of the USC is very low. In the same light, I was reading an article from an Israeli legal perspective re the USC and the Tanakh. His view of it was also that it was not God oriented but humanistic.

I guess part of the point of the return of Christ is that we'll see what His government looks like. I doubt there will be diversity in righteousness.

I do not think there is a biblical position for (for example) how aggressive can police be for it to be still morally acceptable. Every culture/society must define it for themselves. Some societies are more dangerous, more armed etc.

 

[GDL]

I do not know how mixed they were when they left Egypt, but to be the part of the Mosaic Law proselytes had to be circumcised and join the Jewish nation. It was not given to other nations as such.

Israel was to be a priest nation. That's outreach.

Jesus being Lord means we are under his law.

Jesus being Lord means we submit to Him. Again, there is no verse that says we are under Christ's Law.

Paul said he is under it (1Cor 9:21) and that Galatians should fulfill it (Gal 6:2).

That's not what Paul says in 1Cor9:21, but I'm tired of repeating this and explaining what he does say. BTW, I looked at 2 versions of Czech translations and one Slovakian translation of 1Cor9:21 (assuming you speak Czech since your info says you're in the Czech Republic). 1 Czech version says "in law" - 1 Czech version basically says "under law" - the Slovakian version says tied to law. Welcome to translations.

Fulfilling something doesn't say we are under it. Both the Greek word and the English word "fulfill" have some range of meanings. My position in dealing with Paul's language re: the phrase "under law" is that it is very specific and consistently worded for a purpose. If we don't honor that purpose in exegesis, then we begin misinterpreting which is evident in all the debate and arguments and translations about the meaning of the phrase.

I use biblehub.com. Do you mean that English translations are bad?

I mean English translations vary and translators and exegetes are still working on translations and interpretations. I mostly do my own translating from Greek and normally have 10 or so English versions and some Lexical tools on screen to see what others have concluded. Others are searching the world for any additional ancient manuscripts they can find. As I understand, it wasn't too long ago that archeological excavations unearthed an old dump site in Israel that contained old business invoices and such, which gave insights into actual use of Koine Greek words. This isn't over until it's over.

 

[GDL]

I do not think there is a biblical position for (for example) how aggressive can police be for it to be still morally acceptable. Every culture/society must define it for themselves. Some societies are more dangerous, more armed etc.

Your or my opinion on a Biblical point of view do not mean there is or isn't one. Police aggression is certainly being questioned in the US. The reason it's being questioned is obviously because some do not see it as being just. Unless we have one standard for what is just, all we have is a multitude of opinions, ranging from no police to tyrannical police. By What Standard and By This Standard are some interesting writings on such topics. The Christian position is that God's Standard is the only standard of righteousness. From there it's research and debate.