So, it's not me answering, here's a note from the NET Bible re: Ex20:16 and why I said "perjuring":Didn't Rahab lie about where the spies were ?
You'll need to read more of my answer(s) to your posts to find my statements or questions about the changing of food laws and when this may have taken place.I think you have been inconsistent in your answers. If, here, you are saying the food laws are indeed gone, then what am I to make of these words of yours:
IMO it would take an awful lot of work to figure out what He did according to Law before I would charge Him of breaking Law. BTW, in this light, here is the first commandment in Romans:
Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. As it is written: "That You may be justified in Your words, And may overcome when You are judged." (Rom. 3:4 NKJ)
Good luck judging Jesus to be lawless to the Law He was born under.
Can you not see how these words suggest you believe Jesus did not break the Law of Moses at any point? And the food laws are definitely part of the Law of Moses. I am merely pointing out that, yes, Jesus broke the food laws. Or to be more precise, He asserted they no longer apply. To me, this difference is inconsequential, although you and others may see it differently. And, in any event, I believe He clearly broke other elements of the Law - He touched people who were ritually unclean, for example.
I think your marbles are still rolling around in your skull. I see your point although I think there are quite a few arguments that are more robust and easy to make to the effect that the Law is now gone. Jesus declaring all foods clean and Paul (assuming he wrote Ephesians) directly and unambiguously declaring the abolition of he Law, for exampleHave I lost my marbles of does this make sense ???
Why not just tell me: Do you believe Jesus overturned the food laws? I politely suggest that if you answer "yes", your words here are inconsistent with such an answer:You'll need to read more of my answer(s) to your posts to find my statements or questions about the changing of food laws and when this may have taken place.
So, it's not me answering, here's a note from the NET Bible re: Ex20:16 and why I said "perjuring":
tn Heb "answer" as in a court of law.
tn The expression שָׁקֶר ) עֵד'ed shaqer( means "a lying witness" (B. S. Childs, Exodus [OTL], 388). In this verse the noun is an adverbial accusative, "you will not answer as a lying witness." The prohibition is against perjury. While the precise reference would be to legal proceedings, the law probably had a broader application to lying about other people in general (see Lev 5:1; Hos 4:2).
Once again, and with respect, honestly, I've answered you and have lost the desire to backtrack and find it for you.Why not just tell me: Do you believe Jesus overturned the food laws? I politely suggest that if you answer "yes", your words here are inconsistent with such an answer:
Good luck judging Jesus to be lawless to the Law He was born under.
Jesus was certainly born under the Law of Moses. And by saying "nothing that goes in you defiles", He is certainly challenging that law, if not breaking it. How does that not make Him "lawless"?
And I do not see how the "when this may have taken place" bit is relevant. As you may know, I have agreed that Jesus instructed others to obey the Law. And I have asserted that the Law ends at the cross, not before. I think Jesus, if pressed, would say "technically, the end of the food laws only happens after I go to the Cross". But I do not see that slight shift in time as relevant - He is still declaring the imminent end of the food laws.
If you say Jesus did not end the food laws, on the other hand, you have the same challenge others have - explaining why He says "nothing that you take into your body defiles" while believing nothing except pork, shellfish, etc. defiles.
It's been a while, Carl, but, as you've noted re: Rahab, there is more to lying than just a simple you shall not lie.So is lying OK under the Law then ?
It's been a while, Carl, but, as you've noted re: Rahab, there is more to lying than just a simple you shall not lie.
If you were in a movie level situation where some murderer was asking you if you know where your daughter is so he could kill her, and you knew, and he would let you live if you told him, would you lie and misdirect him? Do you think the Lord would condemn you for such a lie?
Look at Matt7:24 and Matt10:16. Our Lord uses the same word to describe the man who built on the rock as He uses to describe the snake. He uses this same word to describe the unrighteous steward in Luke16:8.
What do we owe evil? The truth about Christ, yes, but truth to assist their evil?
On the other hand, a proper judiciary and justice is of great importance to Him.
Sure, we all must judge what acts break these rules and what acts do not. In one culture, something is dishonoring, in another, it is not.I'll keep this in mind next time I encounter situations where murder, adultery, fornication, stealing, perjuring, dishonoring parents, coveting, etc., may come up.
Sure, we all must judge what acts break these rules and what acts do not. In one culture, something is dishonoring, in another, it is not.
Sure, to an extent. You cannot behave in the same way in Japan like in USA, in the time of peace like in the time of war and in the 5th century like in the 21st century.Is culture a measure of morality ???
I hope not !!!
Excused. Sometimes our rambling is just expressing the process we need to think through to reach the point. I know this is my process.Yes there are many issues to work through.
I appreciate your thoroughness.
I hope that a strong case can be made regarding what constitutes a false witness in a Christian sense as the teaching of the Koran permits lying and the nations that have embraced it have been seriously affected as a result.
However I need to ask - do you think the scripture has been given to us to intellectually understand or spiritually understand.
I ask because when I did a little Greek I thought initially that the truths of scripture would at last be revealed it but it doesn't work like that.
So many on CF can only debate the technicalities of the text when their arguments can be unwittingly driven by a false spirit.
These same folks dismiss positions that have no immediate textual support yet may be totally accurate.
Excuse the ramble...
So, in Japan they can murder, be adulterous, fornicate, steal, perjure, covet, etc... and all is well as long as it's cultural? Even though God is sovereign over the world and Jesus Christ has all authority in Heaven and on earth, cultural behavior trumps His glory? And this is the case in 5th or 21st centuries as long as sin, which is lawlessness, was or is cultural? So, God never put all of humanity within the jurisdiction of His Law and when He judges all people as sinful, it's without explanation other than He can do what He wants?Sure, to an extent. You cannot behave in the same way in Japan like in USA, in the time of peace like in the time of war and in the 5th century like in the 21st century.
While general goals are the same, their specifics are culturally different.
And we in Christ in Spirit must judge based upon the written Word of God - including His written Law - rightly divided/understood.Sure, we all must judge what acts break these rules and what acts do not. In one culture, something is dishonoring, in another, it is not.
There are also so many grey areas in which people argue if its breaking of these rules or not.
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