Paul did not teach Perpetual Belief Alone-ism for salvation.

[Bible Highlighter]

Ultimately your works are not the foundation of your salvation. Jesus Christ is the one who justifies and sanctifies, Jesus alone is the first and final cause of salvation.

Wow. Nowhere did I say that works of faith is the foundation of your salvation. I believe God's grace through faith is the foundation of our salvation (Note: I will post the four aspects of salvation in my next post to you).

There is far too much boasting about personal holiness and personal works, taking place.Never make the mistake of thinking that your works dictate your salvation.

There is no such thing. God does the good work through the believer (Philippians 2:13) (John 15:5). So all boast and praise goes to God and not ourselves. So you don't know what I actually believe the Bible says.

You are confused. A Christian stays saved by following the Lord. Certainly it is not the case, that a Christian contributes to their own salvation. After all, we receive the righteousness of Christ as a gift. We have no righteousness of our own.

No. You are the one who does not understand, dear sir.
The Bible clearly teaches that...

After we are saved by God's grace,
God’s works (done through us) are also required as a part of the Salvation Process:


(Here are a List of Verses):


#1. “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).

#2. "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).

#3. "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

#4. "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing," (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

Supplemental verse:

"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).​

#5. "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

#6. "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

#7. “...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

Supplemental verses:

(a) “That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” (2 Thessalonians 2:12).

(b) “...and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, Comfort your hearts, and establish you in every good word and work.” (2 Thessalonians 2:16-17).​

#8. “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Romans 8:1).

Supplemental verse:

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).​

#9. "If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema [accursed] Maranatha."(1 Corinthians 16:22).

Supplemental verses:

(a) "If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

(b) “If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).​

#10. ”And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.” (Luke 10:25-28).

#11. “...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” (Matthew 19:17-19).

#12. "And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38). ”If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:24-26).

#13. "...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62) (cf. Luke 8:11-15, 1 Corinthians 4:15).

#14. "But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).

Supplemental verses:

(a) "Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).

(b) “Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.” (James 1:12).

(c) "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).​

#15. “And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29).

#16. ”And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:12-15).

#17. “For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

#18. “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” (Philippians 2:12-13).

#19. ”Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” (Matthew 25:34-40).
“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.” (Matthew 25:41-46).

#20. ”His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.” (Matthew 25:21).
”And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 25:30).

#21. “In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).

#22. “He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God” (John 8:47).

#23. “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.” (1 John 1:7) (cf. 1 John 2:9-11).

#24. “For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:20).

#25. “Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.” (Matthew 7:24-27).

#26. “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21).

Supplementary verse:

“For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication” (1 Thessalonians 4:3).​

#27. “And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet [Jesus], shall be destroyed from among the people.” (Acts of the Apostles 3:23).

#28. “I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.’ (John 15:5-6).

Supplementary verses:

(a) “Bring forth therefore fruits befitting for repentance” (Matthew 3:8).

(b) “And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.” (Matthew 3:10).​

#29. “And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.” (1 Peter 4:18-19).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Ultimately your works are not the foundation of your salvation. Jesus Christ is the one who justifies and sanctifies, Jesus alone is the first and final cause of salvation.

There is far too much boasting about personal holiness and personal works, taking place.Never make the mistake of thinking that your works dictate your salvation.

You are confused. A Christian stays saved by following the Lord. Certainly it is not the case, that a Christian contributes to their own salvation. After all, we receive the righteousness of Christ as a gift. We have no righteousness of our own.

Actually, when I read the Scriptures, I see 4 different aspects of salvation described.

#1. Provisional Atonement (not "Limited Atonement").
(A 100% Work of God alone that can only be applied personally to an individual's life via by Justification and Sanctification).
This is Jesus paying the price for the sins of the entire world so as to offer mankind the free gift of salvation (if they so choose to accept it); Note: Christ's resurrection (to give us a new body not tainted by sin one day), and the ascension to the Father (after Christ telling Mary not to touch Him), and his entering the holy temple by his blood (to be our Heavenly High Priest) is also included in the Provisional Atonement, too. (For Provisional Atonement verses, see: John 1:29, 1 John 2:2, 1 Timothy 2:6, 2 Corinthians 5:19, Romans 5:6-8.).

#2. Justification (Initial Salvation, and or Foundational Salvation).
(The 1st synergistic work of GOD done in a believer).
Justification is the entrance gate to salvation, and it is the foundation of our salvation (by faith) upon which we stand. Justification is believing the gospel (Which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes it - Romans 1:16). According to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4: The gospel is you believing that Jesus Christ died for your sins, He was buried, and He had risen again three days later for your salvation (Note: Do not let anyone sell you on another gospel besides this one). Depending on a person’s access or exposure to the Word: Justification will also generally include receiving Jesus as your Savior (John 1:12), and calling upon the name of the Lord (i.e. confessing with your mouth the words: “Lord Jesus” or similar equivalent - Romans 10:9) as a part of seeking forgiveness of your sins with Him by way of prayer (Romans 10:13) (Luke 15:18-21) (Luke 18:9-14). This process of salvation is without the deeds of the Law or works because it is based upon God’s mercy and grace and His redemptive work. As a result: One is born again spiritually (Note: Born again by the Spirit, and born again by water (i.e. the Scriptures - Romans 10:17, 1 Peter 1:23)). A person is foundationally or ultimately saved by God’s grace because if they happen to sin on rare occasion in their Christian walk, they do not do a good work to absolve that sin, but they confess of their sins to Jesus in order to be forgiven of that sin (1 John 1:9) (1 John 2:1) (Hebrews 4:16) (For Justification verses, see: Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:1-6, Titus 3:4-7, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Luke 18:9-14, Romans 5:1-2).

#3. Sanctification (The Next Step or Phase in the Salvation Process).
(The 2nd synergistic work of God done in a believer).
Sanctification is the next step or phase in Salvation for a believer who lives out their faith; This is the work of God moving in a believer's life so as to help them to live holy, and to do good works and to put away the lusts of the flesh. These good works are the works of God done through the believer, and so all boasting or praise is given to the Lord. Therefore, there is no boasting in one's own work because they are ultimately the works of God done through the believer. A believer today who obeys the Lord looks to the commands of Jesus and His followers within the New Testament primarily. For believers today are not under the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole package deal (even though certain laws have carried over into the New Testament). Basically all ceremonial laws and judicial laws in the Old Testament no longer apply. For example: Believers do not have to keep the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, animal sacrifices, holy days, etc.; However, believers must keep God's Moral Laws like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, do not lie, do commit adultery, etc.; Two of the greatest commands that we should focus on daily is to love God and love our neighbor which is more fully described in Mark 12:29-31. We need to worship or adore the Lord our God, preach the gospel, help the poor, love the brethren, love our enemies, and live holy lives, etc. (For Sanctification verses, see: James 2:24, James 2:17-18, Titus 1:16, Hebrews 5:9, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Hebrews 12:14, Romans 8:1 (KJV), 1 Corinthians 16:22, Romans 8:13, etc.).

#4. Glorification (The Future Salvation of the Truly Faithful Believer).
(A 100% Work of God alone that can only be applied personally to an individual's life via by Justification and Sanctification).
Glorification is when God takes the believer home to be with Him in His kingdom and He gives Him a new resurrected body that is not tainted by sin. This process of salvation (in being taken home) is a by product automatically for those believers who properly applied Justification and Sanctification to their lives (For Glorification verses, see: 1 Peter 5:4, 1 Peter 1:4, 1 Corinthians 15:51-57, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, Romans 13:11, Philippians 3:20-21, Hebrews 9:28).


Conclusion:

Justification, and then Sanctification is what we as believers need to be focused on. For if we are justified, and sanctified (which is only made possible by the Provisional Atonement), then we will be glorified.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Considering that it was said in respect to the new Gentiles converts receiving further instruction through it you

Are you saying Acts 15:21 means that Christian Gentiles attended Jewish synagogues every Saturday to learn to be under the yoke of the Law of Moses, making them indistinguishable from Jews outside of circumcision? Has the subject of this thread been turned into Adventist Sabbatarianism? Seems that happens to a lot of threads.

 

[klutedavid]

Actually, when I read the Scriptures, I see 4 different aspects of salvation described.

#1. Provisional Atonement (not "Limited Atonement").
(A 100% Work of God alone that can only be applied personally to an individual's life via by Justification and Sanctification).
This is Jesus paying the price for the sins of the entire world so as to offer mankind the free gift of salvation (if they so choose to accept it); Note: Christ's resurrection (to give us a new body not tainted by sin one day), and the ascension to the Father (after Christ telling Mary not to touch Him), and his entering the holy temple by his blood (to be our Heavenly High Priest) is also included in the Provisional Atonement, too. (For Provisional Atonement verses, see: John 1:29, 1 John 2:2, 1 Timothy 2:6, 2 Corinthians 5:19, Romans 5:6-8.).

#2. Justification (Initial Salvation, and or Foundational Salvation).
(The 1st synergistic work of GOD done in a believer).
Justification is the entrance gate to salvation, and it is the foundation of our salvation (by faith) upon which we stand. Justification is believing the gospel (Which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes it - Romans 1:16). According to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4: The gospel is you believing that Jesus Christ died for your sins, He was buried, and He had risen again three days later for your salvation (Note: Do not let anyone sell you on another gospel besides this one). Depending on a person’s access or exposure to the Word: Justification will also generally include receiving Jesus as your Savior (John 1:12), and calling upon the name of the Lord (i.e. confessing with your mouth the words: “Lord Jesus” or similar equivalent - Romans 10:9) as a part of seeking forgiveness of your sins with Him by way of prayer (Romans 10:13) (Luke 15:18-21) (Luke 18:9-14). This process of salvation is without the deeds of the Law or works because it is based upon God’s mercy and grace and His redemptive work. As a result: One is born again spiritually (Note: Born again by the Spirit, and born again by water (i.e. the Scriptures - Romans 10:17, 1 Peter 1:23)). A person is foundationally or ultimately saved by God’s grace because if they happen to sin on rare occasion in their Christian walk, they do not do a good work to absolve that sin, but they confess of their sins to Jesus in order to be forgiven of that sin (1 John 1:9) (1 John 2:1) (Hebrews 4:16) (For Justification verses, see: Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:1-6, Titus 3:4-7, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, Luke 18:9-14, Romans 5:1-2).

#3. Sanctification (The Next Step or Phase in the Salvation Process).
(The 2nd synergistic work of God done in a believer).
Sanctification is the next step or phase in Salvation for a believer who lives out their faith; This is the work of God moving in a believer's life so as to help them to live holy, and to do good works and to put away the lusts of the flesh. These good works are the works of God done through the believer, and so all boasting or praise is given to the Lord. Therefore, there is no boasting in one's own work because they are ultimately the works of God done through the believer. A believer today who obeys the Lord looks to the commands of Jesus and His followers within the New Testament primarily. For believers today are not under the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole package deal (even though certain laws have carried over into the New Testament). Basically all ceremonial laws and judicial laws in the Old Testament no longer apply. For example: Believers do not have to keep the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, animal sacrifices, holy days, etc.; However, believers must keep God's Moral Laws like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, do not lie, do commit adultery, etc.; Two of the greatest commands that we should focus on daily is to love God and love our neighbor which is more fully described in Mark 12:29-31. We need to worship or adore the Lord our God, preach the gospel, help the poor, love the brethren, love our enemies, and live holy lives, etc. (For Sanctification verses, see: James 2:24, James 2:17-18, Titus 1:16, Hebrews 5:9, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Hebrews 12:14, Romans 8:1 (KJV), 1 Corinthians 16:22, Romans 8:13, etc.).

#4. Glorification (The Future Salvation of the Truly Faithful Believer).
(A 100% Work of God alone that can only be applied personally to an individual's life via by Justification and Sanctification).
Glorification is when God takes the believer home to be with Him in His kingdom and He gives Him a new resurrected body that is not tainted by sin. This process of salvation (in being taken home) is a by product automatically for those believers who properly applied Justification and Sanctification to their lives (For Glorification verses, see: 1 Peter 5:4, 1 Peter 1:4, 1 Corinthians 15:51-57, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, Romans 13:11, Philippians 3:20-21, Hebrews 9:28).


Conclusion:

Justification, and then Sanctification is what we as believers need to be focused on. For if we are justified, and sanctified (which is only made possible by the Provisional Atonement), then we will be glorified.

Your explanation agrees with what I said. Though I would not place Gentiles under the law or any part of that law. If you do that, then the Gentiles need to be circumcised and obey the entire law. There is no half measure with the law, you are either under the law, or you are not under the law.

Why people do not see through this obsession with the law, I will never know. Gentiles are not under the law. All the law was ever good for is the recognition of sin. There is no trace of righteousness available to anyone who tries to obey the law.

 

[klutedavid]

Are you saying Acts 15:21 means that Christian Gentiles attended Jewish synagogues every Saturday to learn to be under the yoke of the Law of Moses, making them indistinguishable from Jews outside of circumcision? Has the subject of this thread been turned into Adventist Sabbatarianism? Seems that happens to a lot of threads.

Certainly looks that way.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Your explanation agrees with what I said. Though I would not place Gentiles under the law or any part of that law. If you do that, then the Gentiles need to be circumcised and obey the entire law. There is no half measure with the law, you are either under the law, or you are not under the law.

Why people do not see through this obsession with the law, I will never know. Gentiles are not under the law. All the law was ever good for is the recognition of sin. There is no trace of righteousness available to anyone who tries to obey the law.

It's not like if we're no longer under Mosaic Law we get to do whatever we want. There are plenty of commandments to follow in the NT. As many as 1,050 according to THIS. Surely that should be enough to keep New Covenant legalists happy.

 

[klutedavid]

It's not like if we're no longer under Mosaic Law we get to do whatever we want. There are plenty of commandments to follow in the NT. As many as 1,050 according to THIS. Surely that should be enough to keep New Covenant legalists happy.

I think they just want to be continually reminded of their sin. That's all the law can do, grant you the knowledge of your sin (Romans 3:20).

The law is weak and useless, the law never saved anyone. The law never gave anyone even a hint of righteousness. Even Moses failed to see the promised land.

What is it about the law that is so attractive to them?

 

[HIM]

Considering that it was said in respect to the new Gentiles converts receiving further instruction through it you

Are you saying Acts 15:21 means that Christian Gentiles attended Jewish synagogues every Saturday to learn to be under the yoke of the Law of Moses, making them indistinguishable from Jews outside of circumcision? Has the subject of this thread been turned into Adventist Sabbatarianism? Seems that happens to a lot of threads.

No to reaffirm and learn from it through the Spirit. For doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. 2 Tim. 3:16 They are Scripture. Besides I did not say anything, God is the one who assigned verse 21 as the reason for the mandates given in verse 20. How do we know? Because he used the Greek word gar which means because to begin verse 21.

Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Acts 15:21 For (because) Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.


Tell me he who thinks we preach under the law. How is it we can be under something that has become part of us through Christ?


For His Word is in our mouth and in our heart, that is the word of faith in which we preach. That His Law is in our minds and in our hearts. No longer written with ink on parchment or tables of stone, but on the fleshly tables of the heart. For it is God that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure. A ministration that is No longer of the letter, but of the Spirit. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward; Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God.

(Rom. 10:8; Heb. 8:10; 2Cor 3:4,5)

 

[RDKirk]

I don't think the idea of not acting on a truly held conviction was even a concept in Paul's head.

As has been said, when a fire alarm goes off, your subsequent actions will reveal whether you have true faith in fire alarms.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Your explanation agrees with what I said. Though I would not place Gentiles under the law or any part of that law. If you do that, then the Gentiles need to be circumcised and obey the entire law. There is no half measure with the law, you are either under the law, or you are not under the law.

Why people do not see through this obsession with the law, I will never know. Gentiles are not under the law. All the law was ever good for is the recognition of sin. There is no trace of righteousness available to anyone who tries to obey the law.

*Sigh* There is no such thing as being able to obey the Old Law anymore (i.e. the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole). The Old Law (the 613 as whole package deal) was fulfilled upon the cross (Note: This does not mean certain Laws have not repeated into the New Covenant or New Testament contract, like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, etc.). Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed. 1 John 3:23 is a command (law) to believe in Jesus. So if you are under no law salvation wise, then does not 1 John 3:23 apply for you? What about the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus? (See: Romans 8:1-2). Are you not under this Law? Does it not apply to your salvation? So we are saved by the keeping of certain Laws in the New Covenant. Therefore: Paul is not referring to all forms of Law when he talks about salvation. He is referring to the Old Testament Law of Moses (the 613). We follow the commands that come from Jesus and His followers because they were primarily New Covenant teachings.

 

[Ceallaigh]

No to reaffirm and learn from it through the Spirit. For doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. 2 Tim. 3:16 They are Scripture. Besides I did not say anything, God is the one who assigned verse 21 as the reason for the mandates given in verse 20. How do we know? Because he used the Greek word gar which means because to begin verse 21.

Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Acts 15:21 For (because) Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

In other words those four points were all that was imposed upon the Christian Gentiles.

Tell me he who thinks we preach under the law. How is it we can be under something that has become part of us through Christ?

For His Word is in our mouth and in our heart, that is the word of faith in which we preach. That His Law is in our minds and in our hearts. No longer written with ink on parchment or tables of stone, but on the fleshly tables of the heart. For it is God that works in us both to will and do His good pleasure. A ministration that is No longer of the letter, but of the Spirit. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward; Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God.

(Rom. 10:8; Heb. 8:10; 2Cor 3:4,5)

 

[klutedavid]

*Sigh* There is no such thing as being able to obey the Old Law anymore (i.e. the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole). The Old Law (the 613 as whole package deal) was fulfilled upon the cross (Note: This does not mean certain Laws have not repeated into the New Covenant or New Testament contract, like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, etc.). Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed. 1 John 3:23 is a command (law) to believe in Jesus. So if you are under no law salvation wise, then does not 1 John 3:23 apply for you? What about the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus? (See: Romans 8:1-2). Are you not under this Law? Does it not apply to your salvation? So we are saved by the keeping of certain Laws in the New Covenant. Therefore: Paul is not referring to all forms of Law when he talks about salvation. He is referring to the Old Testament Law of Moses (the 613). We follow the commands that come from Jesus and His followers because they were primarily New Covenant teachings.

I am under the commands that Jesus gave and not under the law.

1 John 3:23

If I was under the law to not covet, then logically, I would be under the law of Moses.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I am under the commands that Jesus gave and not under the law.

1 John 3:23

I am glad you accept 1 John 3:23.

If I was under the law to not covet, then logically, I would be under the law of Moses.

Um, not really. Jesus also gave us the law to not covet, too.

For Jesus said,
“Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consists not in the abundance of the things which he possesses.” (Luke 12:15).

Also, the apostle Paul had written,
“Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law.
For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.” (Romans 13:8-10).

In other words, by loving our neighbor, we shall not covet.

 

[klutedavid]

I am glad you accept 1 John 3:23.



Um, not really. Jesus also gave us the law to not covet, too.

For Jesus said,
“Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consists not in the abundance of the things which he possesses.” (Luke 12:15).

Also, the apostle Paul had written,
“Owe no man anything, but to love one another: for he that loves another has fulfilled the law.
For this, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, You shall not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, namely, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. Love works no ill to his neighbor: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.” (Romans 13:8-10).

In other words, by loving our neighbor, we shall not covet.

That's the way I understand it. Love itself fulfills everything the law demanded. We receive love as a fruit of the Holy Spirit. Loving others is not inherent in our flesh. Loving others is a gift from above.

So I look at the written law, as a list of prohibitions that we could never really obey.

Love on the other hand we are empowered with by the Holy Spirit.

Regardless, Christians are not judged.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That's the way I understand it. Love itself fulfills everything the law demanded. We receive love as a fruit of the Holy Spirit. Loving others is not inherent in our flesh. Loving others is a gift from above.

So I look at the written law, as a list of prohibitions that we could never really obey.

Love on the other hand we are empowered with by the Holy Spirit.

It is true that loving others will help us to keep God's laws, and this can only be done by the power of the Holy Spirit and or all three persons of the Godhead or Trinity working in us. So if this is the case, then Christians should not make excuses that they should always sin this side of Heaven then.

Regardless, Christians are not judged.

What verses brings you to this conclusion?

 

[klutedavid]

It is true that loving others will help us to keep God's laws, and this can only be done by the power of the Holy Spirit and or all three persons of the Godhead or Trinity working in us. So if this is the case, then Christians should not make excuses that they should always sin this side of Heaven then.



What verses brings you to this conclusion?

Matthew 7:1
Do not judge so that you will not be judged.

John 3:18
He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

1 Corinthians 6:2
Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts?

1 Corinthians 6:3
Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Matthew 7:1
Do not judge so that you will not be judged.
1 Corinthians 6:2
Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts?

1 Corinthians 6:3
Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life?

I was obviously referring to their status with the Lord in regards to whether they were saved or not. So these verses do not apply to what we were originally talking about (Which is the thread topic that Paul did not teach Belief Alone-ism for salvation).

John 3:18
He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Skip down to verse 20 and it says all who do evil hate the light, and neither come to the light lest their evil deeds are reproved (i.e. they can confess and forsake their sin). So believing in Jesus is more than just believing in the person of Jesus, but it is believing in His words, too. For Jesus says in John 12:48 that if we do not receive his words, those words will judge us on the last day.

John 5:24
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

I highlighted in red in bold lettering the part of the verse that most in the Belief Alone-ism camp are either unaware of what it says, or they simply skate past it really fast because it is uncomfortable text to deal with. In short, “he who hears My word” is in reference to how we obey Jesus Christ and not just listening with one's ears. For a person is not really listening to our Lord's words if they don't obey them. For in Matthew 7:26-27 we learn from the Lord Jesus that everyone who does not do what Jesus says is like a fool who built his house upon the sand and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house.

 

[Ceallaigh]

People don't believe because they want to remain in the darkness. They want to embrace their sin. A believer seeks the light and and wants to push away sin. That's the difference between an unbeliever and a believer. A person is either a believer or an unbeliever. There's no such thing as a hybrid of the two.

 

[NotreDame]

“And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

“And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.” (Luke 10:25-28).

“And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29).

“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.” (1 John 1:7) (Note: According to indirect wording in 1 John 2:9-11, walking in the light = loving your brother; So you have to love your brother (a work) in order for the blood of Jesus to cleanse you from all sin (salvation)).

“And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.” (Matthew 3:10).

“For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.” (Galatians 6:8-9).

These verses below clearly teach we are saved by
works, obedience, and or holy living:
(Note: This would be works after we are saved by God's grace).

Your view is inconsistent with and irreconcilable with Paul’s view and John.

“8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.”

No salvation by works.

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son and who lever believes Him will not perish but will have everlasting life.” Belief, not works, but belief, faith, saves.

“if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.”

How do you make sense of your inconsistent thoughts above?

Saved by grace. Then saved by works and obedience.

So, salvation by grace, but not really, salvation by works? Your two statements present the idea that there are TWO salvations, a salvation by grace and after that a salvation by works. There’s no Biblical support for this notion of saved by grace and saved again by works.

And your verses do not establish salvation by works. Rather, your verses are touching upon what Jesus called “fruit.” Someone with a sincere faith in Jesus and love for Jesus will produce certain kinds of fruit, your verses mentioned some of the fruit. The verses aren’t saying the “fruit” saves, and neither are the verses saying the “works” save.

The action of loving God with all of one’s might, would, mind, soul, and heart is a product of a sincere faith in and love for God but the faith came first and brought salvation. The works are a result of a living a life consistent with God’s holiness, the one who gave the salvation.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

People don't believe because they want to remain in the darkness. They want to embrace their sin. A believer seeks the light and and wants to push away sin. That's the difference between an unbeliever and a believer. A person is either a believer or an unbeliever. There's no such thing as a hybrid of the two.

Was the prodigal son saved while he was living it up with prostitutes?
Many like Gotquestions and the majority of Christianity will say he was saved during that time. If so, that does not sound like one is pushing away sin, but it sounds like one can turn God's grace into a license for immorality on some level (Which is a violation of Jude 1:4). For what prevents a believer from just going prodigal again if their salvation is not at risk?