Paul contridicts a lot of what christ said

[wizanda]

For many this may sound impossible to say that the bible may not be a 100% correct yet let me explain if I can

To start with many feel that Paul was just continuing the gospel of Christ, he did and I doubt the religion would have spread as it did if it were not for Paul

Yet before I start let me point out that it is a proverb in Samuel is Saul among the prophets, this is Paul’s true name.



So why do I say there are contradictions:



Well Christ said that we should not judge, Paul said that the spiritual may judge and should not be judged.

Christ said that his disciples should only drink water; Paul made communion a religious Ritual.

Christ said that god is the lord of the living; Paul said that we should remain with Christ in death.

Christ said that we should want of nothing and trust in god, Paul said if we don’t work we don’t eat and even went back to work while preaching him self.

Christ said he came to fulfill the law, Paul said he came to end it.

Christ said we have forgiveness for forgiving others; Paul said we have forgiveness in Christ.

Christ said we are justified by our words, Paul said we are justified by Christ.

Christ said to be like children; Paul said not to be like children.

Christ said to be the light of the world and to show the bad through love how to be good, Paul said to have nothing to do with bad people and push them out.

Christ said that God is the judge, Paul said Christ is.

Christ said that faith is powerful; Paul said that faith is ‘the faith’ and so turning its meaning in to church attendance.

Christ said about not making the sacrifice, Paul praised the fact that Christ died for us.

Christ said wisdom will make you shine in heaven, Paul said to be simple.

Christ said if you help collect in the harvest you will receive your reward, Paul said there is nothing we can do other then faith in Christ.

Christ said don’t make vain repetition in prayers; Paul established it as a way to pray.

Christ said have one father, Paul said he had begotten people in Christ so making him a father to them.

Christ said it will be hard for a rich man to enter heaven; Paul praised wealth and aspired to have it.



There are loads more, so if anyone else had noticed please help spread the truth of whom Christ really was. And what Christianity should really be.



There is a lot of the scriptures on my site, please read through them carefully, as it will show you the truth of what Christ wanted of his followers.

 

[Onesiphorus]

You will have to provide scriptural references for your above assumptions. I'm not saying that I necessarily disagree with you, but you really need to show where you're getting all this information.

 

[Colter]

Yes, you are correct. Paul was a great teacher called by Jesus to carry the Gospel. Paul was still human and did the best he could based on his own understanding and personal religious convictions. The following are excerpts from the Urantia Book revelation 1955.



And it should be recorded that Mithraism was the dominant religion of Tarsus during his adolescence. Paul little dreamed that his well-intentioned letters to his converts would someday be regarded by still later Christians as the "word of God." Such well-meaning teachers must not be held accountable for the use made of their writings by later-day successors.


. The philosophic thought of the Hellenistic peoples, from Alexandria and Antioch through Greece to Syracuse and Rome. The philosophy of the Greeks was more in harmony with Paul's version of Christianity than with any other current religious system and became an important factor in the success of Christianity in the Occident. Greek philosophy, coupled with Paul's theology, still forms the basis of European ethics.


It was only natural that the cult of renunciation and humiliation should have paid attention to sexual gratification. The continence cult originated as a ritual among soldiers prior to engaging in battle; in later days it became the practice of "saints." This cult tolerated marriage only as an evil lesser than fornication. Many of the world's great religions have been adversely influenced by this ancient cult, but none more markedly than Christianity. The Apostle Paul was a devotee of this cult, and his personal views are reflected in the teachings which he fastened onto Christian theology: "It is good for a man not to touch a woman." "I would that all men were even as I myself." "I say, therefore, to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them to abide even as I." Paul well knew that such teachings were not a part of Jesus' gospel, and his acknowledgment of this is illustrated by his statement, "I speak this by permission and not by commandment." But this cult led Paul to look down upon women. And the pity of it all is that his personal opinions have long influenced the teachings of a great world religion. If the advice of the tentmaker-teacher were to be literally and universally obeyed, then would the human race come to a sudden and inglorious end. Furthermore, the involvement of a religion with the ancient continence cult leads directly to a war against marriage and the home, society's veritable foundation and the basic institution of human progress. And it is not to be wondered at that all such beliefs fostered the formation of celibate priesthoods in the many religions of various peoples.


line 164: The ancient social brotherhoods were based on the rite of blood drinking; the early Jewish fraternity was a sacrificial blood affair. Paul started out to build a new Christian cult on "the blood of the everlasting covenant." And while he may have unnecessarily encumbered Christianity with teachings about blood and sacrifice, he did once and for all make an end of the doctrines of redemption through human or animal sacrifices. His theologic compromises indicate that even revelation must submit to the graduated control of evolution. According to Paul, Christ became the last and all-sufficient human sacrifice; the divine Judge is now fully and forever satisfied.


line 146: The Christian religion is the religion about the life and teachings of Christ based upon the theology of Judaism, modified further through the assimilation of certain Zoroastrian teachings and Greek philosophy, and formulated primarily by three individuals: Philo, Peter, and Paul. It has passed through many phases of evolution since the time of Paul and has become so thoroughly Occidentalized that many non-European peoples very naturally look upon Christianity as a strange revelation of a strange God and for strangers.


line 104: It must therefore be evident that composite Christian theology encounters great difficulty in attaining consistency. This difficulty is further aggravated by the fact that the doctrines of early Christianity were generally based on the personal religious experience of three different persons: Philo of Alexandria, Jesus of Nazareth, and Paul of Tarsus.


line 75: * * * * * Some day a reformation in the Christian church may strike deep enough to get back to the unadulterated religious teachings of Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith. You may preach a religion about Jesus, but, perforce, you must live the religion of Jesus. In the enthusiasm of Pentecost, Peter unintentionally inaugurated a new religion, the religion of the risen and glorified Christ. The Apostle Paul later on transformed this new gospel into Christianity, a religion embodying his own theologic views and portraying his own personal experience with the Jesus of the Damascus road. The gospel of the kingdom is founded on the personal religious experience of the Jesus of Galilee; Christianity is founded almost exclusively on the personal religious experience of the Apostle Paul. Almost the whole of the New Testament is devoted, not to the portrayal of the significant and inspiring religious life of Jesus, but to a discussion of Paul's religious experience and to a portrayal of his personal religious convictions. The only notable exceptions to this statement, aside from certain parts of Matthew, Mark, and Luke, are the Book of Hebrews and the Epistle of James. Even Peter, in his writing, only once reverted to the personal religious life of his Master. The New Testament is a superb Christian document, but it is only meagerly Jesusonian.
line 82: *

* * * * But the greatest mistake was made in that, while the human Jesus was recognized as having a religion, the divine Jesus (Christ) almost overnight became a religion. Paul's Christianity made sure of the adoration of the divine Christ, but it almost wholly lost sight of the struggling and valiant human Jesus of Galilee, who, by the valor of his personal religious faith and the heroism of his indwelling Adjuster, ascended from the lowly levels of humanity to become one with divinity, thus becoming the new and living way whereby all mortals may so ascend from humanity to divinity. Mortals in all stages of spirituality and on all worlds may find in the personal life of Jesus that which will strengthen and inspire them as they progress from the lowest spirit levels up to the highest divine values, from the beginning to the end of all personal religious experience.
line 84: * *

* * * Jesus founded the religion of personal experience in doing the will of God and serving the human brotherhood; Paul founded a religion in which the glorified Jesus became the object of worship and the brotherhood consisted of fellow believers in the divine Christ. In the bestowal of Jesus these two concepts were potential in his divine-human life, and it is indeed a pity that his followers failed to create a unified religion which might have given proper recognition to both
line 91: * *

* * * Jesus led men to feel at home in the world; he delivered them from the slavery of taboo and taught them that the world was not fundamentally evil. He did not long to escape from his earthly life; he mastered a technique of acceptably doing the Father's will while in the flesh. He attained an idealistic religious life in the very midst of a realistic world. Jesus did not share Paul's pessimistic view of humankind. The Master looked upon men as the sons of God and foresaw a magnificent and eternal future for those who chose survival. He was not a moral skeptic; he viewed man positively, not negatively. He saw most men as weak rather than wicked, more distraught than depraved. But no matter what their status, they were all God's children and his brethren.
line 124: * * * *

* The Hebrews had a religion of moral sublimity; the Greeks evolved a religion of beauty; Paul and his conferees founded a religion of faith, hope, and charity. Jesus revealed and exemplified a religion of love: security in the Father's love, with joy and satisfaction consequent upon sharing this love in the service of the human brotherhood.

 

[wizanda]

You will have to provide scriptural references for your above assumptions. I'm not saying that I necessarily disagree with you, but you really need to show where you're getting all this information.

Sorry i cant add url's till i have a certain amount of points.
yet they are all on my site
wizanda.co.uk
/modules/cjaycontent/index.php?id=2

 

[searchingforanswers1]

It really gets interesting if you consider that paul could easily have faked is vision on the road since no one else witnessed it. Then you get a possibility that paul was not all he seems.
Paul has had so much influence on the bible that some say that christians worship paul more than the true Jesus.
http://www.judaismvschristianity.com/paulthe.htm
http://www.comparative-religion.com/articles/pauline_conspiracy/pauline_conspiracy7.php
http://www.wordwiz72.com/paul.html
http://www.greatcom.org/resources/reasons_skeptics/ch_05/default.htm
http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/paul/paul.htm

 

[Abiel]

Reading and learning

 

[TScott]

It really gets interesting if you consider that paul could easily have faked is vision on the road since no one else witnessed it.

St. Paul never claimed the vision on the road to Damascus ever took place. It is only mentioned by Luke in Acts.

 

[Abiel]

St. Paul never claimed the vision on the road to Damascus ever took place. It is only mentioned by Luke in Acts.

So we have put Paul in the bin...does Luke the liar have to go in next? Cos if his Acts have to go in, his gospel will have to go in to.

 

[TScott]

So we have put Paul in the bin...does Luke the liar have to go in next? Cos if his Acts have to go in, his gospel will have to go in to.

Huh? What "bin" are you talking about? What are you talking about?

?

 

[elman]

"Christ said that his disciples should only drink water; Paul made communion a religious Ritual."

I don't think Christ taught teetotalism. He changed water to wine and He instituted the Lord's supper with wine, not grape juice. I don't think you have any basis for Paul being the author of communion.

Christ said that god is the lord of the living; Paul said that we should remain with Christ in death."
Paul said to die is to be with Christ--to be alive with Christ.

Christ said that we should want of nothing and trust in god, Paul said if we don’t work we don’t eat and even went back to work while preaching him self."
Christ taught we were to not focus on providing our own security. Christ did not teach we were to be bums and let someone else work to feed us.

"Christ said he came to fulfill the law, Paul said he came to end it."
Christ taught the law was summed up in loving God and our neighbor. Paul taught that the only thing that counts in faith working itself out in love.

Christ said we have forgiveness for forgiving others; Paul said we have forgiveness in Christ."
and the difference is?

Christ said we are justified by our words, Paul said we are justified by Christ."
I need to see where Christ said we are justified by our words. He said it was not the ones who said Lord Lord but the one that did the will of God.

Christ said to be like children; Paul said not to be like children."
Christ said to be innocent like Chrildren and Paul said grow up and don't remain immature.

Christ said to be the light of the world and to show the bad through love how to be good, Paul said to have nothing to do with bad people and push them out."
That is not what Paul said. He said we should not enable people in their sin and should not associate with them if they would not correct their actions-in the case of the man sleeping with his mother.

Christ said that God is the judge, Paul said Christ is."
Jesus said He would be the judge Matt 25:31 and following.

Christ said that faith is powerful; Paul said that faith is ‘the faith’ and so turning its meaning in to church attendance."
Paul never turned faith into church attendance.

"Christ said wisdom will make you shine in heaven, Paul said to be simple."
Typical contrived-neither said be stupid.

Christ said if you help collect in the harvest you will receive your reward, Paul said there is nothing we can do other then faith in Christ."
That is not what Paul taught. He taught that our faith should work itself out in love.

Christ said don’t make vain repetition in prayers; Paul established it as a way to pray."
Where do you get Paul doing this?

Christ said have one father, Paul said he had begotten people in Christ so making him a father to them."
Another shallow contrived mistatment.

Christ said it will be hard for a rich man to enter heaven; Paul praised wealth and aspired to have it."
Paul did not aspire to have wealth. You cannot get that from scripture.



There are loads more, so if anyone else had noticed please help spread the truth of whom Christ really was. And what Christianity should really be."
I don't think you are studying very deeply. Try to look for what each is really saying instead opf picking out contrived contradictions.



There is a lot of the scriptures on my site, please read through them carefully, as it will show you the truth of what Christ wanted of his followers."
The truth of what Christ and Paul wanted for his followers is that they love God and man.

 

[Boomygrrl]

Some of these contradictions seem nitpicky and they even contradict themselves. The way you paired them up makes them more contradictions. For instance, you mentioned Jesus said we should be like children and he valued wisdom. You said Jesus mentioned if you collect your harvest you'll receive your reward and he also said faith is powerful. Yes, there are contradictions between Jesus and Paul, but there are also contradictions within Jesus and contradictions within Paul.
The main difference I see is that Jesus valued the low lives of society and preached to love our enemies, to forgive, and appeared very accepting of the individual (but not the sin-- example of the woman caught in adultery). Paul seemed more judgmental and wanted Christians to not associate with others. Of course, you got to understand what was going on in their individual parts of the world.
How do Christians deal with these contradictions?

Boomygrrl

 

[william jay schroeder]

"Christ said that his disciples should only drink water; Paul made communion a religious Ritual."

I don't think Christ taught teetotalism. He changed water to wine and He instituted the Lord's supper with wine, not grape juice. I don't think you have any basis for Paul being the author of communion.

Christ said that god is the lord of the living; Paul said that we should remain with Christ in death."
Paul said to die is to be with Christ--to be alive with Christ.

Christ said that we should want of nothing and trust in god, Paul said if we don’t work we don’t eat and even went back to work while preaching him self."
Christ taught we were to not focus on providing our own security. Christ did not teach we were to be bums and let someone else work to feed us.

"Christ said he came to fulfill the law, Paul said he came to end it."
Christ taught the law was summed up in loving God and our neighbor. Paul taught that the only thing that counts in faith working itself out in love.

Christ said we have forgiveness for forgiving others; Paul said we have forgiveness in Christ."
and the difference is?

Christ said we are justified by our words, Paul said we are justified by Christ."
I need to see where Christ said we are justified by our words. He said it was not the ones who said Lord Lord but the one that did the will of God.

Christ said to be like children; Paul said not to be like children."
Christ said to be innocent like Chrildren and Paul said grow up and don't remain immature.

Christ said to be the light of the world and to show the bad through love how to be good, Paul said to have nothing to do with bad people and push them out."
That is not what Paul said. He said we should not enable people in their sin and should not associate with them if they would not correct their actions-in the case of the man sleeping with his mother.

Christ said that God is the judge, Paul said Christ is."
Jesus said He would be the judge Matt 25:31 and following.

Christ said that faith is powerful; Paul said that faith is ‘the faith’ and so turning its meaning in to church attendance."
Paul never turned faith into church attendance.

"Christ said wisdom will make you shine in heaven, Paul said to be simple."
Typical contrived-neither said be stupid.

Christ said if you help collect in the harvest you will receive your reward, Paul said there is nothing we can do other then faith in Christ."
That is not what Paul taught. He taught that our faith should work itself out in love.

Christ said don’t make vain repetition in prayers; Paul established it as a way to pray."
Where do you get Paul doing this?

Christ said have one father, Paul said he had begotten people in Christ so making him a father to them."
Another shallow contrived mistatment.

Christ said it will be hard for a rich man to enter heaven; Paul praised wealth and aspired to have it."
Paul did not aspire to have wealth. You cannot get that from scripture.



There are loads more, so if anyone else had noticed please help spread the truth of whom Christ really was. And what Christianity should really be."
I don't think you are studying very deeply. Try to look for what each is really saying instead opf picking out contrived contradictions.



There is a lot of the scriptures on my site, please read through them carefully, as it will show you the truth of what Christ wanted of his followers."
The truth of what Christ and Paul wanted for his followers is that they love God and man.

im glad you wrote all this because now i dont you are right in what you say to many take what there iching ears want to hear and what there sinnfull eyes want to see. if they truelly want the truth they will study deeper as you say they should. it helps to pray for wisdom because God freely gives it if you just ask. Amen to you and God bless your truth.

 

[inquisitor_11]

When in doubt....

Jesus says "Follow me"

Paul said "Follow Him"

 

[devoted daughter]

So why do I say there are contradictions:[/font]



Well Christ said that we should not judge, Paul said that the spiritual may judge and should not be judged.

Christ said that his disciples should only drink water; Paul made communion a religious Ritual.

Christ said that god is the lord of the living; Paul said that we should remain with Christ in death.

Christ said that we should want of nothing and trust in god, Paul said if we don’t work we don’t eat and even went back to work while preaching him self.

Christ said he came to fulfill the law, Paul said he came to end it.

Christ said we have forgiveness for forgiving others; Paul said we have forgiveness in Christ.

Christ said we are justified by our words, Paul said we are justified by Christ.

Christ said to be like children; Paul said not to be like children.

Christ said to be the light of the world and to show the bad through love how to be good, Paul said to have nothing to do with bad people and push them out.

Christ said that God is the judge, Paul said Christ is.

Christ said that faith is powerful; Paul said that faith is ‘the faith’ and so turning its meaning in to church attendance.

Christ said about not making the sacrifice, Paul praised the fact that Christ died for us.

Christ said wisdom will make you shine in heaven, Paul said to be simple.

Christ said if you help collect in the harvest you will receive your reward, Paul said there is nothing we can do other then faith in Christ.

Christ said don’t make vain repetition in prayers; Paul established it as a way to pray.

Christ said have one father, Paul said he had begotten people in Christ so making him a father to them.

Christ said it will be hard for a rich man to enter heaven; Paul praised wealth and aspired to have it.



There are loads more, so if anyone else had noticed please help spread the truth of whom Christ really was. And what Christianity should really be.



There is a lot of the scriptures on my site, please read through them carefully, as it will show you the truth of what Christ wanted of his followers.

BRAVO!!! Interesting post.
As a Christian, I focus on CHrist's teachings and example... For me, I focus on what HE said!
Additionally, Christ didn't distinguish between the sexes in anyway in that women are somehow less valued, Paul seems to have and "issue" with women. That is an un-truth to me... I don't need to site it, just grab your own bible..it's there!
Paul make some good points, so I don't disagree with some entirely, but I follow Christ, not Paul. It's a simple as knowing WHAT Christ actually said.

Thank you for this post.

May you have peace.

DD

 

[JBrian]

Thank you for your question,

First, I would like to see some Scripture references, such as when you claim that Christ told His disciples to only drink water. I am not saying He didn't, but some context would be helpful. The same applies to the other claims.

Thanks,

Brian

 

[jgarden]

Next to Jesus, Paul was Christianity's greatest missionary, theologian, writer and leader. No other early leader, including the disciples, made the contributions to the NT that Paul did. Romans is considered by many at the heart of NT theology.

Paul was almost solely responsible for the spread of Christianity among the Gentiles. Without Paul, much of Christianity would have been lost with the Jerusalem Church during the Roman destruction of Jerusalem during the 1stC.

 

[Abiel]

Huh? What "bin" are you talking about? What are you talking about?

?

If the OP is correct, Paul is untrustworthy. If Luke is unreliable in reporting the miracle at Damascus, then he also is untrustworthy. When I said 'bin' I meant their writings would need to be got rid of as scripture.

 

[RVincent]

I think Bible verses should be supplied for each statement.

Otherwise, they are too arguable. The first one for example:

Well Christ said that we should not judge, Paul said that the spiritual may judge and should not be judged.​

To "judge" has a wide variety of applications. There is judicial judgment, Divine judgment, The Great White Throne of Judgment...etc. The "judge" Christ is talking about is not the same as the "judge" Paul is talking about.

Context will clear up a lot of this too. But again, I would need Bible references.

 

[StormeTorque]

I suppose that if Christianity is true, then it doesn't really matter whether Paul contradicted Jesus or not - he was merely a theologian. There have been many theologians throughout history who have claimed that they were full of the spirit but still said things that are considered contradictory to the words of Jesus - after all, they're all fallible humans trying to understand the concept of God as much as they could.

 

[Colter]

In the absence of a visible Son of God we insist on making the scriptures perfect when they were never intended to be perfect. Paul was "man" doing the will of "God" imperfectly. Why his doings and words were ever elevated to divine dogma can be found in this notion that we want visible proof and control over our spiritual experiences. Living by faith will always have a certain amount uncertainty to it, but the joy of doing Gods will is abundant. Jesus brought us spiritual liberation from the oppressive institution of the "LAW."