true dat. And the non existent standards they use when appraising something that might be an argument against evolution speaks volumes for how little actually goes into the bases for any of their beliefs.
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Yeah, that's kind of my point. I mean, if these folks can't even study what's right in front of them, why do we trust their claims about what's supposedly infinitely more difficult to study?
Well, to be fair... a miraculous supernatural agent that raises dead people from their graves would be able to restore them to perfect health either.Well, to be fair, I'm not sure most of us would be able to recognize their rotted or dried up faces even if I could see them up close.
Well, to be fair, I'm not sure most of us would be able to recognize their rotted or dried up faces even if I could see them up close.
You know, Freodin -- I have to hand it to you -- that's exactly what I thought when I typed it.You know, AV, I would be a lot more impressed by this logic, if I didn't know exactly that, if this verse used the opposite order, you would use it as example of "see, Jesus tells science to take a hike here".
Well, to be fair, I'm not sure most of us would be able to recognize their rotted or dried up faces even if I could see them up close.
Seriously -- what 'snarky' remark?But that doesn't solve the mystery as AV thinks it does with his snarky remark.
You know, Freodin -- I have to hand it to you -- that's exactly what I thought when I typed it.
Either way, we show the Bible out to be a winner, don't we?
Just like most guys try to put It in a catch-22 situation.
Did you ever consider that maybe it wasn't zombies from Hollywood walking around?
Think "Sixth Sense"-style Bruce Willis. He didn't look dead to us or to the boy. I think if God, in his infinite wisdom, raised some people from the dead he would also have the ability make sure they weren't oozing puss and filled with worms
Just sayin'
Seriously -- what 'snarky' remark?
You can rest assured I would recognize hundreds of zombies walking down the street... and all I can say is...And why would that be?
Take the nearest graveyard to you, Cal -- if half of its population arose and paraded down the street in front of you, would you even give it a second thought?
If so, you must know what half the population in your local cemetery looks like.
Those are testimonies, not evidence. How about some evidence? Some way to consistently test for the supernatural?
I agree. We should let it die so AV can zombie it at a later date.The O.P. is ... well.... just pathetic.
/thread
My point is -- is that if our graveyards opened up and people came out of them, would you even know it?"Take the nearest graveyard to you, Cal -- if half of its population arose and paraded down the street in front of you, would you even give it a second thought?"
You believe that the people rose and - important! - were recognized as such.
By what means... and why do you imply that Cal couldn't use the same means to identify his local graveyard risers?
Again -- unless you know what half the population of your local cemetery looks like, why would you recognize someone?Why didn't they instantly recognize that he was dead?
FYI, for astronomers that means pointing at the sky and adding math.
Fire away.Hmm. You know I love you man, but.....
Well that’s certainly one way of trying to make sense of it all. I have no doubt we can see God in the physical universe, and the fact that the universe is electric makes it all the more interesting.You might try looking at it another way IMO. "Some" scientists thought to themselves that what the ancients called 'supernatural' might in fact be a very 'natural' process. IMO that is how pantheism came to exist.
I agree. They can be considered two sides of the same coin/reality.It may very well be that what the ancients called "supernatural" is in fact quite a "natural' part of the universe. Science isn't necessarily at odds with Christianity
That’s’ true. We may be the ones that are unnatural. That would certainly explain the coming of Jesus to straighten us out.Even that type of "faith" that science somehow will replace God turns such a belief system into a "religion" of sorts, one that precludes the possibility that God is the single most "natural" thing in existence.
Like I said, I too see God a being “natural” since everything that is real is natural. He can be considered “super” in the sense that his natural state is superior to all else.While I think that it is true that "some" scientists have boxed themselves into a myopic viewpoint (like Lambda-religion theory), I don't think that applies to "all scientists".
This assumes they are scientists.In fact IMO the adoption of a 'faith' in "dark stuff" and "inflation" was an empirical mistake to begin with from the standpoint of pure empirical physics. It was a betrayal of empirical tenets IMO. I would tend to accuse the mainstream of being "too willing" to believe in 'supernatural' forces of nature like inflation, not for being "unwilling" to entertain the possibility of 'supernatural" forces of nature.
It sure does. One thing is for sure: "god did it" is not dead on either side.I guess it all depends on how you we subjectively look at the universe, eh?
Are you saying there is nothing about God that can be explained?Science works only with what can be explained.
Maybe they saw something you can’t now see.You'll find all sorts of 'ancients' across the world that believed in all sorts of different supernatural creation stories and attributed all sorts of different supernatural causes to events.
Define reality. Because for some reason I’m thinking you don’t believe God is real.When you consider it necessary to invoke things literally described as outside the realm of reality then effectively anything goes.
Again, define reality.This is why religion is divergent and science is convergent. This is why every new scientific discovery gets us one step closer to understanding reality as it is and why every new branch of religious ideology gets its adherents one step away from understand reality as it is.
If its natural state is superior to all other natural states it may be considered supernatural and is explainable.It is simply pointless to invoke supernatural causes as reasons for things and indeed if any supernatural cause was identified in anything then it would cease to be supernatural and become part of the explained and understood.
Utility?They are by definition unknown and as a consequence an exercise in utility.
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