Pastors who call themselves a "prophet"?

JohnClay said:

My sisters go to a tiny pentecostal church and the pastor (who did a doctorate in demonology) calls himself a prophet - "Prophet [first initial] [Last name]". The website usually no longer says what his first name is. My sister said he doesn't want to be famous. On the website he has 14 books that he has written listed - there doesn't seem to be an easy way to buy them. One of my sisters is working on her 4th book (related to Christianity) though she is a speech therapist.

Here are excerpts from a sermon of his from several years ago:

I focused on the parts I found most repulsive but I don't think it is out of context.

I think there is at least one passage in the OT that says that if a supposed prophet gets something wrong, then they should be put to death.

My sisters said that in the NT it says that people can have the gift of prophecy.

So I was wondering what Christians here think about self-proclaimed "prophets"?

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Personally, I believe scripture, when completed in the first century, replaced the New Covenant prophet. So that all prophecy today is false. The Apostle John who wrote Revelation being the last true prophet.

For there to be false prophets (II Pet 2:1), then there are Godly prophets. Here are a couple of Scriptures: "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; Eph 4:11, "And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues." I Cor 12:28

Every believer has a spiritual gift (I Cor 12:7) and none are 100% accurate in our service to The Lord - not one. (Can you imagine the pride problem that would have to be dealt with?) In regards to prophetic words, we're to test what's said.

"Despise not prophesyings." "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." I Thess 5:20-21

How do we prove all things? Foremost, we have Holy Scripture, The Holy Spirit, prayer, spiritual discernment, and hearing God's voice. He'll give confirmation
(Acts 9;9-19 especially v 10-12; II Cor 13:1)

JohnClay said:

My sisters said that in the NT it says that people can have the gift of prophecy.

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The New Testament speaks about prophecy:

1 Corinthians 12:4-11: Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills.

Some Christians, called Continuationists (Pentecostals, Charismatics, and some Baptists) believe that each of these spiritual gifts still continues (including prophecy).

Other Christians, called Cessationists, believe that the gifts of prophecy and speaking in tongues have ceased.

There's more to it than that, of course, but that's the essence of the debate.

And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Dave L said:

Personally, I believe scripture, when completed in the first century, replaced the New Covenant prophet. So that all prophecy today is false. The Apostle John who wrote Revelation being the last true prophet.

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This seems to be the case indeed.
Or perhaps of all the claims, only 0.01% is genuine.

Mantishand said:

And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

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Then it seems we are not yet in the last days.

JohnClay said:

My sisters go to a tiny pentecostal church and the pastor (who did a doctorate in demonology) calls himself a prophet - "Prophet [first initial] [Last name]". The website usually no longer says what his first name is. My sister said he doesn't want to be famous. On the website he has 14 books that he has written listed - there doesn't seem to be an easy way to buy them. One of my sisters is working on her 4th book (related to Christianity) though she is a speech therapist.

Here are excerpts from a sermon of his from several years ago:

I focused on the parts I found most repulsive but I don't think it is out of context.

I think there is at least one passage in the OT that says that if a supposed prophet gets something wrong, then they should be put to death.

My sisters said that in the NT it says that people can have the gift of prophecy.

So I was wondering what Christians here think about self-proclaimed "prophets"?

Click to expand...

I don't believe any " prophets" now as everything we need is now written and sealed in the Bible.
And yes, a sure test is if what they prophesy does not come to pass, they are false. ( think of all the times people give dates as to the end of the world for example)
There are no new revelations from God as Scripture is complete and all God wants us to know is there for any to see.

A pastor labeling themselves as prophet reeks of arrogance. I’ve had a few pastors that on occasion exhibited the gifts of discernment, words of knowledge and words of wisdom but were reluctant to accept credit for it and always steered congregants to the simple rendering of scripture.

Many who speak in His Name will be told by Him that "I knew thee not."

Almost all of these 'prophets' etc. are selling 'religion' for their own advancement.

JohnClay said:

My sisters go to a tiny pentecostal church and the pastor (who did a doctorate in demonology) calls himself a prophet - "Prophet [first initial] [Last name]". The website usually no longer says what his first name is. My sister said he doesn't want to be famous. On the website he has 14 books that he has written listed - there doesn't seem to be an easy way to buy them. One of my sisters is working on her 4th book (related to Christianity) though she is a speech therapist.

Here are excerpts from a sermon of his from several years ago:

I focused on the parts I found most repulsive but I don't think it is out of context.

I think there is at least one passage in the OT that says that if a supposed prophet gets something wrong, then they should be put to death.

My sisters said that in the NT it says that people can have the gift of prophecy.

So I was wondering what Christians here think about self-proclaimed "prophets"?

Click to expand...

There has already been posted the passages that state there will be prophets, esp. in the last days.

The test of one is the same as it always has been. No one can declare themselves a prophet. God calls them, their fruits will show if they are one or not.

Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

It can take a while sometimes to see the fruits, so:

Isa_8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

It means they have NO light. Not just a little, once in a while---if they go against the word of God--they are no prophet. Even if they show "signs and wonders"--Satan can work miracles, also.

2Co_11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Deu 13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
Deu 13:2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
Deu 13:3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Deu 13:4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

Deu 18:21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
Deu 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.


This is not to mean, 5 out of 10 times they are accurate---even 9 out of 10---100% accuracy.

Eze 33:33 And when this cometh to pass, (lo, it will come,) then shall they know that a prophet hath been among them.
A true prophet directs all to the scriptures and to Jesus--never to himself.

It can be arrogant to call oneself a prophet, however, the meaning can also be one who puts forth the word of God and not necessarily one who is foretelling the future.

Hieronymus said:

Then it seems we are not yet in the last days.

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Not yet in the last days?
When the Holy Spirit fell at Pentecost, Peter said it fulfilled the last days prophecy from Joel.

If the last days started back in Peter's time, we must still be in the last days today, unless you believe they entered it in 33AD, then came out of the last days, and maybe we go back into them sometime in the future?

Heavenhome said:

I don't believe any " prophets" now as everything we need is now written and sealed in the Bible.

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You are denying what Jesus said.
Matt10v18And you will be brought also before governors and kings on account of Me, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. 19And when they deliver you up, do not be anxious how or what you should speak; for in that hour you will be given what you should say, 20for you are not those speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.
This is not about speaking scriptures to these judges, but speaking fresh stuff for that moment, given to you on the spot

HI often see the self gloss term prophet or apostle used by some in ministry almost to try to elevate themselves as having some power or greater authority over the group they are in. For sure there are prophets today but if you really examine what is a prophet it is one who speaks forth the word of the LORD. So if I quote scripture to some in the fashion of letting people know this is what God says I am there for a prophet. Not all prophecy is forth telling. That gift too may still occur. The Jesus movement in the 1970's started in California with a church called Calvary chapel. This group was down to about 20 people and they were bringing in a new pastor named Chuck Smith. They were thinking about calling Smith and telling him not to come that they were going to just close. One guy got a word and said that Smith would come and he would not like the way the stage was set up and would want to change it. The prophecy went on to say that Smith would be a pastor of pastors. So when Smith showed up he noted that he did not like the way the stage was set up. The twenty who were close to disbanding were then encouraged. The teaching of the Bible book by book ministry lasted 40 years and over 1500 churches were birthed out of this beginning and Smith was a pastor to pastors and never touched any of the glory for himself.
Many prophets or so called modern ones will try to make their words have an equal or greater weight than what scripture has to say. This is common in most cults. Many now follow people like Mark Taylor wrote a book called the Trump Prophecies and is cashing in and yet does not say he is a prophet. This guy is false as he is already not hitting at 100% and his prophecies about God overturning things under Trump go against the Bible principals for restoration which are humility, contriteness and repentance to turn judgement into blessing. A true prophet will always turn peoples hearts back towards the Holiness of God and turn them away from their sins.

The major issues above is a lack of contextualism, in that scriptures meant for those times are transposed to a universalit 'last day' theme. Prayer and good reading skills and common sense does permit out of context conclusions.

JustRachel said:

It can be arrogant to call oneself a prophet, however, the meaning can also be one who puts forth the word of God and not necessarily one who is foretelling the future.

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Right and should be the most common usage.

Francis Drake said:

Not yet in the last days?

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I don't think we are, yet.

When the Holy Spirit fell at Pentecost,

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I'd say "was poured out" (okay, semantics...)

Peter said it fulfilled the last days prophecy from Joel.

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That doesn't have to mean things will not repeat or reoccur though.

If the last days started back in Peter's time, we must still be in the last days today, unless you believe they entered it in 33AD, then came out of the last days, and maybe we go back into them sometime in the future?

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Well, i don't know, but it seems to me that the last days are not a period of 2000 years, in which many of the end times prophecies have not yet come to pass.

Francis Drake said:

You are denying what Jesus said.
Matt10v18And you will be brought also before governors and kings on account of Me, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. 19And when they deliver you up, do not be anxious how or what you should speak; for in that hour you will be given what you should say, 20for you are not those speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.
This is not about speaking scriptures to these judges, but speaking fresh stuff for that moment, given to you on the spot

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Why fresh stuff?

JacobKStarkey said:

The major issues above is a lack of contextualism, in that scriptures meant for those times are transposed to a universalit 'last day' theme. Prayer and good reading skills and common sense does permit out of context conclusions.

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many of the prophecies in Genesis and throughout the book related to events in Jesus life and ministry, so the argument that scripture was intended for the context of the time it was written in certainly does not apply to the things that were accomplished in Jesus 1st advent: so why would you not expect those same scriptures to apply to the 2nd coming as well?