Pastor, priest?

[Xeno.of.athens]

What is the work of a pastor in your opinion; what is their "job"?

 

[BobRyan]

To organize worship services, organize the local church, they know the difference between Bible truth and error, provide pastoral teaching and counseling. They are someone who has devoted their life to the study of the Bible, sharing the Gospel rather than split between secular career and part-time church leadership (in most cases). As a matter of moral honesty they should accurately teach the doctrines of whatever denomination they are affiliated with.

They perform weddings, lead out in communion services, funerals etc

1. They have no "powers" to mark the soul.
2. They have no special powers at all -

 

[HTacianas]

What is the work of a pastor in your opinion; what is their "job"?

A pastor is a man who oversees a congregation. His job is to tend to their spiritual needs. That's what a priest is and does.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

A pastor is a man who oversees a congregation. His job is to tend to their spiritual needs. That's what a priest is and does.

Can you break that down into a finer grained explanation of their principal duties and role?

 

[HTacianas]

Can you break that down into a finer grained explanation of their principal duties and role?

Actually that about covers it. The job of a priest is to perform the Liturgy, to baptize people, and to see to their general spiritual well being. I'm not sure specifically what you're looking for.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

What is the work of a pastor in your opinion; what is their "job"?

To lead the sheep.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Here it says,

Jerm 3:19 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart,
which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

 

[Daniel9v9]

A Priest/Pastor is a man who is called by God through the Church to publically preach God's Word and administer the Sacraments; to call sinners to repentance, and to comfort the contrite with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[Fireinfolding]

A Priest/Pastor is a man who is called by God through the Church to publically preach God's Word and administer the Sacraments; to call sinners to repentance, and to comfort the contrite with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Is there a difference between what a priest is and pastor? For example in this verse they appear to be addressed together in the OT along with the prophets (all three)

Jeremiah 2:8 The priests said not, Where is the LORD? and they that handle the law knew me not:
the pastors also transgressed against me, and the prophets prophesied by Baal, and walked after things that do not profit.

 

[Daniel9v9]

Is there a difference between what a priest is and pastor? For example in this verse they appear to be addressed together in the OT along with the prophets (all three)

Jeremiah 2:8 The priests said not, Where is the LORD? and they that handle the law knew me not:
the pastors also transgressed against me, and the prophets prophesied by Baal, and walked after things that do not profit.

Hey, that's a great question! The Bible uses the words "Pastor" ("Poimen", a shepherd, someone who feeds and protects a flock) and "Priest" ("Presbyteros", an elder, overseer, teacher) interchangeably. It's the same teaching office. So the Bible itself does not distinguish between Pastor and Priest, but in modern common usage, many do use the terms to denote a denominational difference, which includes different teachings and practices. Though there is some benefit to distinguishing "Pastor" and "Priest" in a modern sense, I'm inclined to use them interchangeably as in the Bible, providing it doesn't cause confusion.

Now, the Bible uses several names for the Pastoral Office, but it also speaks of Prophets, Evangelists and Deacons. Sometimes these overlap, but in general:
- A Pastor can be a Prophet, in a NT sense, but a Prophet typically means a travelling teacher who receives revelation from God. He doesn't serve a local congregation, but he moves about, building up the Church. If you were to ask if there are prophets in our time, you'd get different answers from different churches. What we can agree on, however, is that there are many false prophets in the world, and these God calls us to correct, mark, and avoid.

- An Evangelist may be a travelling Pastor who builds new churches, or some devout Christian who doesn't serve a local congregation but simply proclaims Jesus in his own vocation.

- Deacon is in very simple terms a "helper", someone who assists the Pastor. The Office of Deacon was instituted for the sake of charity. It is those who are consecrated and set apart to care for the poor and the needy.

In short, a Pastor/Priest is one who serves a local congregation with God's gifts of His Words and Sacraments. Prophets and Evangelists move about, and Deacons serve in a different function, as workers of charity. The Bible also speaks of a universal priesthood, but this is not the same as the Pastoral Office — This is to say that all Christians do have access to God through Christ, but not everyone is called to be a public preacher.

Thank you for asking about Jeremiah 2:8 — that's great! "Priest" is "Priest", "Prophet" is "Prophet", but "Pastor" here is "Shepherd", which I think is better translated as Ruler. ESV translates it as "shepherds" and ASV as "rulers" (cf. Ezekiel 37:24). It's not referring to the Pastoral Office, but Shepherds in the sense of rulers who look after a nation. So it lists: Priests, rulers, and prophets. The point of the text is that everyone in a place of authority, everyone who was consecrated by God, has abandoned God and led Israel away from God. But in Jesus, we have a High Priest, a King, and a Prophet who unites us to God by His own person and works. Thanks be to God!

I'd be glad to write up a longer more systematic post with Scripture passages, but you can find the requirements for the offices of Priest/Pastor and Deacon here: 1 Timothy 3:1-13, and the institution of the office of Deacon here: Acts 6:1-6

God bless!

 

[Fireinfolding]

Hey, that's a great question! The Bible uses the words "Pastor" ("Poimen", a shepherd, someone who feeds and protects a flock) and "Priest" ("Presbyteros", an elder, overseer, teacher) interchangeably. It's the same teaching office. So the Bible itself does not distinguish between Pastor and Priest, but in modern common usage, many do use the terms to denote a denominational difference, which includes different teachings and practices. Though there is some benefit to distinguishing "Pastor" and "Priest" in a modern sense, I'm inclined to use them interchangeably as in the Bible, providing it doesn't cause confusion.

Now, the Bible uses several names for the Pastoral Office, but it also speaks of Prophets, Evangelists and Deacons. Sometimes these overlap, but in general:
- A Pastor can be a Prophet, in a NT sense, but a Prophet typically means a travelling teacher who receives revelation from God. He doesn't serve a local congregation, but he moves about, building up the Church. If you were to ask if there are prophets in our time, you'd get different answers from different churches. What we can agree on, however, is that there are many false prophets in the world, and these God calls us to correct, mark, and avoid.

- An Evangelist may be a travelling Pastor who builds new churches, or some devout Christian who doesn't serve a local congregation but simply proclaims Jesus in his own vocation.

- Deacon is in very simple terms a "helper", someone who assists the Pastor. The Office of Deacon was instituted for the sake of charity. It is those who are consecrated and set apart to care for the poor and the needy.

In short, a Pastor/Priest is one who serves a local congregation with God's gifts of His Words and Sacraments. Prophets and Evangelists move about, and Deacons serve in a different function, as workers of charity. The Bible also speaks of a universal priesthood, but this is not the same as the Pastoral Office — This is to say that all Christians do have access to God through Christ, but not everyone is called to be a public preacher.

Thank you for asking about Jeremiah 2:8 — that's great! "Priest" is "Priest", "Prophet" is "Prophet", but "Pastor" here is "Shepherd", which I think is better translated as Ruler. ESV translates it as "shepherds" and ASV as "rulers" (cf. Ezekiel 37:24). It's not referring to the Pastoral Office, but Shepherds in the sense of rulers who look after a nation. So it lists: Priests, rulers, and prophets. The point of the text is that everyone in a place of authority, everyone who was consecrated by God, has abandoned God and led Israel away from God. But in Jesus, we have a High Priest, a King, and a Prophet who unites us to God by His own person and works. Thanks be to God!

I'd be glad to write up a longer more systematic post with Scripture passages, but you can find the requirements for the offices of Priest/Pastor and Deacon here: 1 Timothy 3:1-13, and the institution of the office of Deacon here: Acts 6:1-6

God bless!

Thank you for your response Daniel9v9, very helpful. I know when you click on priest in the OT it comes up different from a pastor, and we see it mentioned there how the LORD was going to give pastors (and how he gave some to be pastors in the NT) where it's also shown to be synonymous with shepherd (such as Christ, he being the good shepherd). So it may not be off to refer to the same as shepherds in the OT if the pastors in the NT are synonymous.

And yes, I am aware one can be ordained to be in more than one office (?) so to speak

Since Paul said,

2 Ti 1:11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

But I will say I find it difficult to discern between them. I have looked at this before and I am looking over it again, and so when I saw your post which was equating the two who were addressed by the LORD (separately) I thought I would ask. I am still somewhat unsure but I dont think its that big a thing (the differences, that is).

I do see Jesus mentioned as a minister/ a teacher/a master/ as an apostle/a prophet/a cheif shepherd/a pastor/ and a bishop

And ofcourse, both Lord and Christ

There's a lot to unpack in there

Thanks for your response, I will take a closer look, and God bless you as well

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Is there a difference between what a priest is and pastor? For example in this verse they appear to be addressed together in the OT along with the prophets (all three)

Jeremiah 2:8 The priests said not, Where is the LORD? and they that handle the law knew me not:
the pastors also transgressed against me, and the prophets prophesied by Baal, and walked after things that do not profit.

In Catholic documentation a priest is an elder, the word "priest" in English is derived from the Latin "presbyter" which came from Greek "presbuteros" meaning an older person, or an elder. A Pastor and a priest in Catholicism are almost the same thing, a pastor being a priest who is responsible to the local Bishop for a parish and a priest who is not a pastor is usually an assistant to a pastor or works in some other capacity for the diocese.

 

[Diamond72]

What is the work of a pastor in your opinion; what is their "job"?

A part of their job is to do counciling. This is were you can tell the difference between church were the pastor has an associate degree and main line churches where they are a lot better qualified to help people with whatever problem they are having.

 

[Fireinfolding]

In Catholic documentation a priest is an elder, the word "priest" in English is derived from the Latin "presbyter" which came from Greek "presbuteros" meaning an older person, or an elder. A Pastor and a priest in Catholicism are almost the same thing, a pastor being a priest who is responsible to the local Bishop for a parish and a priest who is not a pastor is usually an assistant to a pastor or works in some other capacity for the diocese.

What would be the equivilent to what is noted as the minister in the synagogues as shown below

Luke 4:20 And he (Jesus) closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister G5257,
and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

Acts 13:5 And when they were at Salamis, they preached the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews:
and they had also John to their minister G5257

Shows minister/servant/officer in various places

With the exception of the apostle Peter mentioning ye are a holy priesthood in 1 Peter 2:5 and "ye are a royal priesthood"in 1 Peter 2:9 and the book of Revelation 1:6, 5:10 &20:6 you never really read them mentioning anyone as priests in their epistles except when they are speaking of those who belong to the Jewish synagogues, or Jesus obviously, who is our great High priest (and who is not of that order) .

I always wondered why that was, or rather why the use of the word priest was used more than what is found there.

There doesn't seem to be much distinction between all the titles. I have always wondered why are so many titles given when there is no solid distinction that can be clearly made between them. Besides just titles and some added secular duties that might help put some sliver of distinction in there for us today.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

What would be the equivilent to what is noted as the minister in the synagogues as shown below

Luke 4:20 And he (Jesus) closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister G5257,
and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

Acts 13:5 And when they were at Salamis, they preached the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews:
and they had also John to their minister G5257

That would be an acolyte I think.

With the exception of the apostle Peter mentioning ye are a holy priesthood in 1 Peter 2:5 and "ye are a royal priesthood"in 1 Peter 2:9 and the book of Revelation 1:6, 5:10 &20:6 you never really read them mentioning anyone as priests in their epistles except when they are speaking of those who belong to the Jewish synagogues, or Jesus obviously, who is our great High priest (and who is not of that order) .

Saint Paul refers to his priestly work,

“the grace given me by God to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the priestly service of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit” (Rom 15:15-16)​

I always wondered why that was, or rather why the use of the word priest was used more than what is found there.

There doesn't seem to be much distinction between all the titles. I have always wondered why are so many titles given when there is no solid distinction that can be clearly made between them. Besides just titles and some added secular duties that might help put some sliver of distinction in there for us today.

"Priest" is used in English for historic reasons; in English the word has roots in the Greek word πρεσβύτερος

Presbuteros. Presbuteros (πρεσβύτερος, Greek word #4245 in Strong's Concordance) is the most commonly used term for elder in the New Testament, stemming from presbus, elderly.​

The word "priest", is ultimately derived from Latin via Greek presbyter,[2] the term for "elder", especially elders of Jewish or Christian communities in late antiquity. The Latin presbyter ultimately represents Greek πρεσβύτερος presbúteros, the regular Latin word for "priest" being sacerdos, corresponding to ἱερεύς hiereús.[Wikipedia]

Thus in other parts of the word, Catholic priests are called presbyters, or elders, or whatever the equivalent word is in the language of that part of the world. However, a Catholic priest does also have a priestly work to perform, as did saint Paul, and is consequently also referred to by words appropriate to the priestly meaning of the word "priest" in English.

In the new testament elders, apostles, prophets and other offices within the church are mentioned, but the offices most mentioned are elder and bishop (overseer). Hence we see priests and bishops in the Catholic church as well as deacons. Acolytes and altar servers are not ordained yet they do assist the priest at the mass. The acolyte's roles is preparing the altar and the sacred vessels. In the absence of an Acolyte, an Adult Altar Server takes this role.

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

What would be the equivilent to what is noted as the minister in the synagogues as shown below


I always wondered why that was, or rather why the use of the word priest was used more than what is found there.

There doesn't seem to be much distinction between all the titles. I have always wondered why are so many titles given when there is no solid distinction that can be clearly made between them. Besides just titles and some added secular duties that might help put some sliver of distinction in there for us today.

IMHO, you might be reading too deeply into trying to distinguish common words describing the same thing such as minister, priest, or shepherd. The Christian church did inherit portions of how the synagogues were organized. So in the synagogue structure, since they did not do sacrifices like in the Temple, the leader was not a priest. However, the leader did rely on laity to do parts of the service. Today, most synagogues have a rabbi and cantor but readings are done by volunteers.


In apostolic churches, as mentioned, have major clergy (bishop, priest, deacon), and minor clergy (sub-deacon, chanter/reader, and acolyte). We definitely see in the NT, a division of labor of the apostles (bishops) and deacons. It is within a few years of the Apostolic era that church fathers begin referencing a division of episkopos (bishop), presbyter (priest), and diakonos (deacon). In the Eastern Orthodox church, the priest or bishop will lead the service and deacons will assist with various prayers and with communion. Sub-deacons (which are not required and rarely found in the Greek Orthodox church but more often in other EO jurisdictions) organize the sanctuary and make sure everything is ready for a service. They also will herd the cats, I mean altar boys, for processions. Chanters, like myself, are expected to be able to conduct all of the songs and readings in a service. We could have up to 4-6 books that we need for the morning services, Orthros (which has the framework of the Matins service), Anastasamartiron (book of Vespers and Orthros hymns), Menaion (book of the month which includes the list of readings), Apostolos (which has the Epistle readings organized by day), the Liturgikon (the Liturgy), and often a copy of the Priest's service book for memorials, baptisms, etc. That doesn't include all of the other books that we keep in the chant stand. This is what it might look like for me

 

[bling]

Eph. 4:11 So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Eph. 4:11 So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up

Yes, the Lord gave apostles and now we have bishops, he gave evangelists and now we have evangelists, he gave pastors and now we have pastors and he gave teachers and now we have priests, and their job is to equip the people of God for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up.

 

[bling]

Yes, the Lord gave apostles and now we have bishops, he gave evangelists and now we have evangelists, he gave pastors and now we have pastors and he gave teachers and now we have priests, and their job is to equip the people of God for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up.

Notice it is the members on the front line doing the "work" (allowing the Holy Spirit to work through them making disciples). Now in helping the members these others would also be examples of disciple making.

 

[Fireinfolding]

That would be an acolyte I think.

Th definition of minister there is hyperetes (same?)

1. servant
   1. an underrower, subordinate rower
   2. any one who serves with hands: a servant
      1. in the NT of the officers and attendants of magistrates as — of the officer who executes penalties
      2. of the attendants of a king, servants, retinue, the soldiers of a king, of the attendant of a synagogue
      3. of any one ministering or rendering service
   3. any one who aids another in any work
      1. an assistant
      2. of the preacher of the gospel

Saint Paul refers to his priestly work,

“the grace given me by God to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the priestly service of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit” (Rom 15:15-16)​

And its the word priest and how its applied, for example the first post separating the two from each other but are considered the same, whereas Paul was called a minister (even as you show so much) Jesus was likewise, but its not the same word for example here

Romans 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister G1249 of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

If I stated that that means Christ was a priest while on earth I would be incorrect because Hebrews 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

Hebrews 8:4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest,
seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law

Even as Jesus tells these to shew themselves to the priests

Luke 17:14 And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests.
And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.

So I am feeling around for the "equivilents" a little, and pastors and priests aren't coming up together as the same (even as Jesus was not a priest while on earth) but called himself the good shepherd which is coming up under pastors. where you can say the two are equivilent. And since Hebrews makes clear if he were on earth he should not be a priest, although while he was on earth he was a shepher (the equivilent of a pastor).

You see how I am trying to find what is equal to what?

"Priest" is used in English for historic reasons; in English the word has roots in the Greek word πρεσβύτερος

Presbuteros. Presbuteros (πρεσβύτερος, Greek word #4245 in Strong's Concordance) is the most commonly used term for elder in the New Testament, stemming from presbus, elderly.​

The word "priest", is ultimately derived from Latin via Greek presbyter,[2] the term for "elder", especially elders of Jewish or Christian communities in late antiquity. The Latin presbyter ultimately represents Greek πρεσβύτερος presbúteros, the regular Latin word for "priest" being sacerdos, corresponding to ἱερεύς hiereús.[Wikipedia]

Thus in other parts of the word, Catholic priests are called presbyters, or elders, or whatever the equivalent word is in the language of that part of the world. However, a Catholic priest does also have a priestly work to perform, as did saint Paul, and is consequently also referred to by words appropriate to the priestly meaning of the word "priest" in English.

In the new testament elders, apostles, prophets and other offices within the church are mentioned, but the offices most mentioned are elder and bishop (overseer). Hence we see priests and bishops in the Catholic church as well as deacons. Acolytes and altar servers are not ordained yet they do assist the priest at the mass. The acolyte's roles is preparing the altar and the sacred vessels. In the absence of an Acolyte, an Adult Altar Server takes this role.

I guess I am trying to see the OT Hebrew speaks of the same and why they are distinguished back there but follow through the giving of pastors from there into the NT and then why the word priest isnt used so much but other titles are given.

Thanks for your response, I will let it go from here