Pastor leaves Adventism

Jimlarmore · Aug 14, 2007

Moriah_Conquering_Wind said:
Sorry, not "basics" but BASIS. Ontological axioms. Define yours, if you can.

I'd be happy to, my basis for my ontological beliefs is the Holy Word of God the Bible. In John 17:17 I find where Jesus talking to the Father said " Santify them by truth, Your word is truth. " So we know that the inspired word of God the Father is truth.

In John 14 :6 we also see " Jesus said to him I am the way the truth and the life no one comes to the Father except by Me." In John 1 we know that the word of God was Jesus who became flesh and dwelt among us.

The entire Bible is about Jesus Christ from page 1 to the last. The plan of salvation which was instituted before the earth was created is a free gift to all men and involves our participation to work. Once we accept Christ and His sacrifice for us we become a new creation and our lives change from the way we used to live.

That is a foundational basis for Christianity, praise God.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

sentipente · Aug 14, 2007

Jimlarmore said:
I'd be happy to, my basis for my ontological beliefs is the Holy Word of God the Bible. In John 17:17 I find where Jesus talking to the Father said " Santify them by truth, Your word is truth. " So we know that the inspired word of God the Father is truth.

You missed a step. You forgot to show us where the Bible was ever identified as the Word of God.

Jimlarmore · Aug 14, 2007

I know I'm going to get blasted for this but I have to tell it like it is. For the most part this discussion is about compliance or not to a set of standards set by the sda church, am I right?

Since I have become an adventist I have noticed that everything the members adopt as a life style that is mega different from the world comes directly from the Bible. So again, the bottom line is this. If you have a problem with the fundamental beliefs of the sda church you have a problem with what the Bible teaches.

I have noticed that very little scripture has been given in any of these discussions. Why not? Philosophies and feelings are a dime a dozen. If we are to be a Bible based remnant people of God we need to stay with what the Bible teaches. Please show how the sda church is countra-Biblical in it's set of standards for it's members.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

StormyOne · Aug 14, 2007

Jimlarmore said:
I know I'm going to get blasted for this but I have to tell it like it is. For the most part this discussion is about compliance or not to a set of standards set by the sda church, am I right?

Since I have become an adventist I have noticed that everything the members adopt as a life style that is mega different from the world comes directly from the Bible. So again, the bottom line is this. If you have a problem with the fundamental beliefs of the sda church you have a problem with what the Bible teaches.

I have noticed that very little scripture has been given in any of these discussions. Why not? Philosophies and feelings are a dime a dozen. If we are to be a Bible based remnant people of God we need to stay with what the Bible teaches. Please show how the sda church is countra-Biblical in it's set of standards for it's members.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

thank you for sharing your "feelings" and "opinions."

freeindeed2 · Aug 14, 2007

Jimlarmore said:
I know I'm going to get blasted for this but I have to tell it like it is. For the most part this discussion is about compliance or not to a set of standards set by the sda church, am I right?

Since I have become an adventist I have noticed that everything the members adopt as a life style that is mega different from the world comes directly from the Bible. So again, the bottom line is this. If you have a problem with the fundamental beliefs of the sda church you have a problem with what the Bible teaches.

I have noticed that very little scripture has been given in any of these discussions. Why not? Philosophies and feelings are a dime a dozen. If we are to be a Bible based remnant people of God we need to stay with what the Bible teaches. Please show how the sda church is countra-Biblical in it's set of standards for it's members.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

So you operate on the basis of 'We're right, and EVERYONE else is wrong'? I used to joke (as an SDA pastor) that this should be the 28the FB, but then they came up with another 28th. I guess now it would have to be the 29th.

sentipente · Aug 14, 2007

JL, I only asked you to show us where the Bible is identifed as the Word of God. We can get into the other stuff later.

Jimlarmore · Aug 14, 2007

sentipente said:
You missed a step. You forgot to show us where the Bible was ever identified as the Word of God.

11 Tim 3:16 "Every scripture is God breathed given by inspiration and profitable for instruction for reproof and conviction of sin for correction of error and discipline in obedience and for training in righteousness to God's will in thought, purpose and action." Amplified

God Bless
Jim Larmore

NightEternal · Aug 14, 2007

Jimlarmore said:
Since I have become an adventist I have noticed that everything the members adopt as a life style that is mega different from the world comes directly from the Bible.

Vegetarianism as a condition for those who would be translated in the end comes directly from the Bible? Since when? Scripture please.

You can't. Because it isn't there. It's purely EGW and nothing else.

We have more in common with the Hindu religion in that regard than what the Bible teaches.

Jimlarmore · Aug 14, 2007

freeindeed2 said:
So you operate on the basis of 'We're right, and EVERYONE else is wrong'? I used to joke (as an SDA pastor) that this should be the 28the FB, but then they came up with another 28th. I guess now it would have to be the 29th.

No, I don't operate in any sort of fashion. If what others do does not align with the Bible then that is between them and their creator. You always seem to want to make a finger pointing issue out things, why?

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Jimlarmore · Aug 14, 2007

NightEternal said:
Vegetarianism as a condition for those who would be translated in the end comes directly from the Bible? Since when? Scripture please.

You can't. Because it isn't there. It's purely EGW and nothing else.

We have more in common with the Hindu religion in that regard than what the Bible teaches.

I've never read any such thing in EGW's writings but I have only read the desire of ages and the Great Controversy. However, I have read the origiinal diet in Gen 1:29 which was God's plan for man's ideal diet for health and well being. Health principles come from all over the Bible including the new testament where we read Paul's telling us that we don't even own our bodies that they were bought with a very high price. He also said to do all things including eating and drinking to the glory of God. It only makes sense that those who will be ready to stand before their creator will not be slaughtering pigs to eat the day He shows up in the clouds of glory.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

freeindeed2 · Aug 14, 2007

Jimlarmore said:
No, I don't operate in any sort of fashion. If what others do does not align with the Bible then that is between them and their creator. You always seem to want to make a finger pointing issue out things, why?

God Bless
Jim Larmore

You're making the claims.

Jim Larmore said:
...I have noticed that everything the members adopt as a life style that is mega different from the world comes directly from the Bible. So again, the bottom line is this. If you have a problem with the fundamental beliefs of the sda church you have a problem with what the Bible teaches.

So only the SDA/EGW interpretation of Scripture is correct, right? Do you believe that anything outside of what she interpreted is correct?

NightEternal · Aug 14, 2007

Jimlarmore said:
I've never read any such thing in EGW's writings but I have only read the desire of ages and the Great Controversy. However, I have read the origiinal diet in Gen 1:29 which was God's plan for man's ideal diet for health and well being. Health principles come from all over the Bible including the new testament where we read Paul's telling us that we don't even own our bodies that they were bought with a very high price. He also said to do all things including eating and drinking to the glory of God. It only makes sense that those who will be ready to stand before their creator will not be slaughtering pigs to eat the day He shows up in the clouds of glory.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Jim, it's there. Trust me.

See, this is the problem. Many of us non-Traditionals have been in the church for years and have read extensively EGW's works, including all of the Conflict Of The Ages, Testimonies For The Church, Selected Messages, Counsels On Diet and Foods, etc. Too many are underestimating how familiar we are with traditional Adventist teachings.

As for the whole idea getting back to the 'original diet', it is ridiculous for us to speculate what sort of fruit or vegetables will be found in Heaven. It is even more ridiculous to assume that it in any way will resemble the fruit and vegetables we buy at the local Safeway. More ridiculous is to assume that by exclusively eating such, we are 'preparing' for the diet in Heaven.

Unless Safeway's fruit have the power to bestow immortal properties and someone didn't notify me.

But I guess when Christ changes our bodies, characters and minds back to the standing of sinless Adam at glorification, our tastebuds and digestive systems are exempt.

The only ones who are even remotely attempting this are those who subsist only on fruit alone, which we know is not an adequate diet for anyone.

And no, there will not be Fri-Chik, Grillers or Vega-Links in Heaven either BTW.

freeindeed2 · Aug 14, 2007

NightEternal said:
Jim, it's there. Trust me.

See, this is the problem. Many of us non-Traditionals have been in the church for years and have read extensively EGW's works, including all of the Testimonies For The Church, Selected Messages, Counsels On Diet and Foods, etc. Too many are underestimating how familiar we are with traditional Adventist teachings.

As for the whole idea getting back to the 'original diet', it is ridiculous for us to speculate what sort of fruit or vegetables will be found in Heaven. It is even more ridiculous to assume that it in any way will resemble the fruit and vegetables we buy at the local Safeway. More ridiculous is to assume that by eating such, we are 'preparing' for the diet in Heaven.

Unless Safeway's fruit have the power to bestow immortal properties and someone didn't notify me.

But I guess when Christ changes our bodies, characters and minds back to the standing of sinless Adam at glorification, our tastebuds are exempt.

Hey, it is 'SAFE-WAY'! We have 'em here in Colorado, what state do you live in?

sentipente · Aug 14, 2007

Jimlarmore said:
11 Tim 3:16 "Every scripture is God breathed given by inspiration and profitable for instruction for reproof and conviction of sin for correction of error and discipline in obedience and for training in righteousness to God's will in thought, purpose and action." Amplified

God Bless
Jim Larmore

And you think that "every Scripture" refers to the Bible? You know that at the most elementary level that cannot be true. Worse, the term "Word of God" is not in that text. That text does not teach what you are saying. You can use it to support an independent teaching but the teaching is not in the text.

NightEternal · Aug 14, 2007

freeindeed2 said:
Hey, it is 'SAFE-WAY'! We have 'em here in Colorado, what state do you live in?

That would be the state (er, I mean country) of CANADA.

I won't get into provinces however. Not good to disclose specific info on the internet.

freeindeed2 · Aug 14, 2007

NightEternal said:
That would be the state (er, I mean country) of CANADA.

I knew that! LOL.

I won't get into provinces however. Not good to disclose specific info on the internet.

Yeah, I won't be giving my address or even my name over the internet. I'm sure someone obsessed and desperate enough could figure it out, but that would be a bit strange.

Jimlarmore · Aug 14, 2007

freeindeed2 said:
You're making the claims.

You call them claims I call them statements of truth. If you have a system that aligns nearly perfectly with the Bible and you go against that system then by direct logic you are going against the Bible.

So only the SDA/EGW interpretation of Scripture is correct, right? Do you believe that anything outside of what she interpreted is correct?

I thought we were talking about the Bible. I'm not versed on EGW well enough to respond to the last part of your question other than to say I know she probably did not reveal all the truth that is in the Bible. However, considering how extensive her writings are starting with patriachs and prophets she most likely didn't miss much.

I know every time I read her writings I come away feeling as though I have been blessed by the Holy Spirit . I have not found anything substantial in what I have read so far that is against the truth in the Bible.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Jimlarmore · Aug 14, 2007

sentipente said:
And you think that "every Scripture" refers to the Bible?

Yes I do, in this case for sure. The Bible was compiled by many scholars who deliberately excluded certain writings as apocraphal and would not include them with the what we call the Bible today. Timothy had access to all of the OT scriptures and some of Paul's epistles which were considered as scripture at the time.

The canonized writings of the old testament were obviously a part of those writings and were handed down to us in many volumes of ancient manuscripts like the masorectic texts/ tanakh and the septuigent. Later the new testament fell into three major manuscripts, the textus vaticanus, the textus siniaticus, and the textus receptus. The textus receptus is generally considered to be the most reliable and least compromised amoung the three.

You know that at the most elementary level that cannot be true. Worse, the term "Word of God" is not in that text. That text does not teach what you are saying. You can use it to support an independent teaching but the teaching is not in the text.

Your mincing and twisting words to cause confusion or to see just how much I know. God is not about confusion. The text does indeed say that scripture is inspired by God and what Timothy considered scripture is part of what we call the Bible today. I have the original language right in front of me right now.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Jon0388g · Aug 14, 2007

Jimlarmore said:
I have noticed that very little scripture has been given in any of these discussions. Why not?

Jim, don't forget, "you will know them by their words."

Jon

Jimlarmore · Aug 14, 2007

NightEternal said:
Jim, it's there. Trust me.

See, this is the problem. Many of us non-Traditionals have been in the church for years and have read extensively EGW's works, including all of the Conflict Of The Ages, Testimonies For The Church, Selected Messages, Counsels On Diet and Foods, etc. Too many are underestimating how familiar we are with traditional Adventist teachings.

If she said she was shown by the Lord that truth then I believe her.

As for the whole idea getting back to the 'original diet', it is ridiculous for us to speculate what sort of fruit or vegetables will be found in Heaven. It is even more ridiculous to assume that it in any way will resemble the fruit and vegetables we buy at the local Safeway. More ridiculous is to assume that by exclusively eating such, we are 'preparing' for the diet in Heaven.

Unless Safeway's fruit have the power to bestow immortal properties and someone didn't notify me.

But I guess when Christ changes our bodies, characters and minds back to the standing of sinless Adam at glorification, our tastebuds and digestive systems are exempt.

The only ones who are even remotely attempting this are those who subsist only on fruit alone, which we know is not an adequate diet for anyone.

And no, there will not be Fri-Chik, Grillers or Vega-Links in Heaven either BTW.

I understand the Bible allows for the consumption of clean meat. However, given the circumstances today that title "clean meat" may be a misnomer. Ever been around a feed lot or visited a processing plant? If I was to eat red meat now at all it would be deer, elk or moose. I absolutely refuse to eat beef that is offered from the grocery store. For all practical purposes I am a vegan at this point.

I can give you a web-site if you want by a pm that has thousands of testimonials where a raw fruit and vegetable diet has cured terminal cancer , heart diseases and all sorts of other diseases in about 90% of those who stay on it. The reason I can't give it here is because it may be considered as spam.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

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