Who cares what they think? It's irrelevant. What said the Lord???
I see. You know more than our scholars and professors. Interesting...
Excuse me? Who is the fundation of your faith? The Word of God or what the theologians say??? Didn't you just say in another thread something to the effect that some of us don't use our brains and blindly follow others?
I can provide you with even longer list of the scriptures plainly stating perfection is required of us.
All taken out of context, misinterpreted and misapplied. I have heard all of them before, and not one is saying we must achieve flawless, sinless perfection before glorification.
Have at it. I'm not losing any sleep over it because the bible says 'Be thou perfect even as your Father who is in heaven', 'Be holy for I AM holy'......
There is not even a hint that this is speaking about sinless perfection. A word study will show that it is being used here to denote 'completeness'. This word is also used to describe Abraham, David, etc. all who were far from the idealized 'pefection' you proffer. It's speaking about the fruits of the Spirit, being merciful as your father is merciful, etc.
Taken out of context?
1 Thess 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and
I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 12
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that
ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
What are you going to say? That Christ's righteousness is credited to us? True that's how we are justified. But we still to need be sanctified (made holy). Not one verse in the bible that says we can still sin and go to heaven at the same time. No body says we can do it by our own power. But by grace, all things are possible. Whats all? Overcoming sins is not part of all things? Hello?
1 Peter 2
21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us,
leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
22
Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
We are called to follow His steps, His example. What example? It says in vs 22 did no sin.
1 Cor 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
It says God will not allow you to be tempted above you are able to resist. So whats your excuse for sinning? I'm not saying I've reached the condition of sinless perfection. But that's my goal. With God all things are possible. And He is stronger than him who is in the world.
1 John 4:4
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1 John 2
1 My little children, these things write I unto you,
that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby
we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 3
6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil:
whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Pretty plain, not commentary needed.
Spirit of Prophecy puts it even plainer.
Everyone who by faith obeys God's commandments, will reach the condition of sinlessness in which Adam lived before his transgression. ---Maranatha, p224.
You serious? That was 33 pages. There are ton of people leaving adventist church. I know some personally. Sad but I can do nothing to save them, can't even save myself.
I didn't ask you to do anything for him. I just wanted feedback on wether Greg made some valid points or not. His leaving is a moot issue, he is already gone. What can we learn from his observations about the church?
Side issue? This is what seperates Adventism from all other denomination. This is the heart of contention.
No, this is what causes much of mainline Protestantism to relegate us to the heterodox/cult bin.
Again, dont care what anybody says. I never do.
The new christian religion was once called a sect, did you know? I don't care what people call me. I know who I am and what I believe.
Is Adventist structure faultless? Far from it. But I'm not leaving because of these issues.
Who is saying anyone is pressuring you to leave? Is it too much to ask that you read the letter and acknowledge Greg might have some valid points without it having to be a devious plan to pull you out of the church?
Sheesh. The paranoia knows no bounds!
Did I say anyone pressured me into leaving? It was merely an expression of saying those (organizational and structural) things are not key issues. Talk about paranoia!
