Pastor Joel Osteen

[KCDAD]

Look at Solomon, He was granted a choice of whatever he wanted. He asked for wisdom, which God gave him, but God also gave him great wealth.

God gave him wealth? Or did the armies of Israel? (Ever know of a king that didn't get wealthy? God blessed them all with their wealth? Even Hitler? and Stalin? Bill Clinton?)

You gotta quit believing everything the Hebrew historians write in their histories, as The Wizard of OZ says in the play WICKED: "back where I am from, we believe all kinds of things that aren't true... we call it History."

If someone asks you which you would rather have... you would already be wise if you said you wanted wisdom. God wouldn't have to give you anything, would he? But then again... how wise would it be to ask for something you already had? This is just one example of the paradox of reading and believing what people tell you without thinking about what they really mean.

 

[mont974x4]

God gave him wealth? Or did the armies of Israel? (Ever know of a king that didn't get wealthy? God blessed them all with their wealth? Even Hitler? and Stalin? Bill Clinton?)

You gotta quit believing everything the Hebrew historians write in their histories, as The Wizard of OZ says in the play WICKED: "back where I am from, we believe all kinds of things that aren't true... we call it History."

If someone asks you which you would rather have... you would already be wise if you said you wanted wisdom. God wouldn't have to give you anything, would he? But then again... how wise would it be to ask for something you already had? This is just one example of the paradox of reading and believing what people tell you without thinking about what they really mean.

I don't generally read the wiritings of men, and don't recall ever reading any Hebrew scholars.


I generally just stick to the Bible. The fact is, the idea that we are all commanded to go into poverty is a false teaching and is as dangerous as the health/wealth prosperity "gospel".

 

[KCDAD]

I don't generally read the wiritings of men, and don't recall ever reading any Hebrew scholars.


I generally just stick to the Bible. The fact is, the idea that we are all commanded to go into poverty is a false teaching and is as dangerous as the health/wealth prosperity "gospel".

'nuff said.

 

[tapero]

Not a sin to be wealthy... what did Jesus say to the rich man?

It is not a sin in Capitalism, but it is a sin in Christianity.

Hi, no it's not a sin to be wealthy and as you read the story of the rich young ruler you'll see such.

That young man loved money so much he could not do as jesus asked because he loved money too much and would not part with it. you see it was his god. money is not gods to all men, was to that guy. That's the whole of that story.

Actually Jesus' family was probably fairly well off with gifts to the savior as well, and in no wise is it a sin to be wealthy in the least.

Greed is the sin.

 

[KCDAD]

Hi, no it's not a sin to be wealthy and as you read the story of the rich young ruler you'll see such.

That young man loved money so much he could not do as jesus asked because he loved money too much and would not part with it. you see it was his god. money is not gods to all men, was to that guy. That's the whole of that story.

Actually Jesus' family was probably fairly well off with gifts to the savior as well, and in no wise is it a sin to be wealthy in the least.

Greed is the sin.

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING!

Jesus' family wealthy? unbelievable... only in America...

Of course it is not a sin to be wealthy... it is sinful to accumulate wealth and to hold on to it.

 

[mont974x4]

No, the love of money is the root of all sorts of evil....not money itself. The accumulation of wealth isn't sin either....hording it is. \


Money/earthly wealth is just another thing, how we handle it is the issue.

 

[KCDAD]

No, the love of money is the root of all sorts of evil....not money itself. The accumulation of wealth isn't sin either....hording it is. \


Money/earthly wealth is just another thing, how we handle it is the issue.

So how do have it without hoarding it... are you playing semantic games?

Do you want to argue that giving ten percent of 20,000,000 is somehow justifying the 18,000,000 you keep?

Is that WJWD?

 

[mont974x4]

So how do have it without hoarding it... are you playing semantic games?

Do you want to argue that giving ten percent of 20,000,000 is somehow justifying the 18,000,000 you keep?

Is that WJWD?

As Jesus regularly eluded to when dealing with the Pharisees...the heart is the issue.

I know that there are very wealthy people that are also very generous and I know some poor people that are not....and vice versa.


You can have wealth and not horde it. Out of our blessings we bless others, and in turn He blesses us more....sometimes that is in physical earthly wealth and sometimes it isn't.

 

[KCDAD]

As Jesus regularly eluded to when dealing with the Pharisees...the heart is the issue.

I know that there are very wealthy people that are also very generous and I know some poor people that are not....and vice versa.


You can have wealth and not horde it. Out of our blessings we bless others, and in turn He blesses us more....sometimes that is in physical earthly wealth and sometimes it isn't.

uh huh... whatever. Seed faith...it is the idea that made Oral Roberts stinkin' rich... it certainly was successful.

 

[mont974x4]

uh huh... whatever. Seed faith...it is the idea that made Oral Roberts stinkin' rich... it certainly was successful.

So, some men have abused wealth. Some men have twisted Scripture for their own gain. I couldn't argue with you on that if I wanted to. But there is nothing wrong with having wealth, or getting wealthy. How a person gets wealthy may be an issue.

 

[KCDAD]

So, some men have abused wealth. Some men have twisted Scripture for their own gain. I couldn't argue with you on that if I wanted to. But there is nothing wrong with having wealth, or getting wealthy. How a person gets wealthy may be an issue.

Do you understand how wealth works... in the United States (from Sociology, J. Macionis 2008) 20% of the income earners earn 48.1 % of the income... BUT 85% OF THE WEALTH in this country is owned by that same 20%. And most of that wealth is held by the top 5%, and of that group- mostly by the top 1%. OF that top 1%, most wealth is held by the top .5% of the population..
The top 5% of wage earners make $185,000 or more. The top 1% make $400,000 or more... those who make $1,750,000 or more make up less than .5% of the population. Where do these humble servants of God fit into this picture... do you think?

The idea you have of wealth, whatever you think it is, is NOT what these parasites are packing away.

 

[Lockguy3000]

Those definitiona are all fine and good, except they are yours. I need to know how he defines and applies the terms. Given his overall teaching, I have to disagree with him and, as has been doen in this thread, point out the error.

Having watched Pastor Osteen on television for years, and gone to two of his sermons personally;
I find that he preaches to establish Christians of the continual walk with Christ.
Pastor Osteen teaches us not to lose faith during trying times, and to walk with praise, love and joy in everyday life.
Even if the season is of trial, it is better to walk in faith, than to have a pity party.
We should all walk in love, be good to one another for we are all his Lord's creation.

BTW, nothing promises us a full restored health in this life. Does He still heal, absolutely no doubt that He does. Does He heal everyone in this life? Nope, not even close, at least not how these prosperity, health and wealth, teachers use the term.

I am sorry to disagree with you brother;
I do believe that the Lord can restore health onto us.
Even if the Lord doesn't, is it not better to live life with hope, and joy than to live with self pity?

Please my bother mont974x4;40906838, stay on topic, don't let others steal our joy of this friendly debate, for this is a way to better understand each other.

 

[GQ Chris]

rejoice always and maintain an eternal perspective... easier said than done.

My biggest beef with Joel and other prosperity preachers is that their sermons are not filled with the unglamorous truth. That life is hard.. that you have to work hard if you want to be successful and not just "believe" by the power of God that prosperity is going to just somehow fall into your life.

You have to work hard in this fallen world where everything is cursed, where the intensity of the work we do oftentimes does not right away yield the profits that it should. My problem with these mega televangelists and their stadiums is that they don't preach to seek God's face and repent and strive to live Holy, but not only that but to preach that the Lord is himself Holy and just and wrathful.

The Bible teaches that in Heaven that the first will be last, and so that means that the two CEO's in charge of my company will be behind me in status if they even make it into Heaven.

 

[Lockguy3000]

Be Thankful


Today's Scripture


“Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful” (Colossians 3:15 NIV).


Today's Word from Joel and Victoria


As believers, we are a commanded to be thankful. I believe this is a natural result of allowing the peace of God to rule our hearts. Did you know that you can choose to have peace? You don’t have to let things upset you. You don’t have to be anxious and worried. That word peace means to set at one again. When you set your mind at one with God and His Word, you will have peace. God also leads us by peace. If you don’t have peace about a decision, wait and follow the direction of the peace in your heart. And when you have peace, you can’t help but be thankful! You will have a song in your heart and a spring in your step. Choose today to let the peace of Christ rule in your heart and have an attitude of gratitude toward the Lord. Even if you have things that are upsetting you, take a step of faith and begin to thank God for His goodness in your life. Thank Him for working behind the scenes on your behalf. As you do, you will walk forward into the life of blessing He has in store for you!


A Prayer for Today


Heavenly Father, thank You for Your peace that rules my heart. I choose Your peace today and thank You for guiding my every step. I choose to be thankful today and bless You for Your faithfulness. In Jesus’ Name. Amen.

 

[Lockguy3000]

rejoice always and maintain an eternal perspective... easier said than done.

My biggest beef with Joel and other prosperity preachers is that their sermons are not filled with the unglamorous truth. That life is hard.. that you have to work hard if you want to be successful and not just "believe" by the power of God that prosperity is going to just somehow fall into your life.

[F]
I wasn't going to answer your post till tomorrow, but seeing how my bad back had woke me up in 4 in the morning.
Yes I agree brother GQ Chris;40936402, life can be hard at times.
John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
[/FONT]

You have to work hard in this fallen world where everything is cursed, where the intensity of the work we do oftentimes does not right away yield the profits that it should.

[F]
No my brother GQ Chris;40936402, life in this world is not cursed.
Pastor Osteen teaches us that in his Lord's mercy;
We can all find joy in anything we do;
Be it having to clean out a dirty ditch, sitting in traffic, or having to redo the report that you had worked so hard on, you got to do it, you might as well enjoy it.

Pastor Osteen teaches us we shall reap what we sow in faith, but like planting seeds, the harvest doesn't come up right away.
You may not see the fruits of your labor, but what of your childred, or your grand children.
Okay I don't have children, but when I sow seeds of kindness, for the Lord's glory, I reap a deep joy.
What if I sow in faith and nothing happens, well don't we reap hope?[/FONT]

My problem with these mega televangelists and their stadiums is that they don't preach to seek God's face and repent and strive to live Holy, but not only that but to preach that the Lord is himself Holy and just and wrathful.

[F]
I can not say of the other televangelist.
Pastor Osteen does preaches us to repent, and to live in the Lord's excellence. (live Holy)
Have you read some of the messages of Pastor Osteen I posted on this thread?[/FONT]

 

[GQ Chris]

The world is cursed, meaning fallen, and it won't be redeemed until God redeems it. I am not talking about maintaining a positive attitude in the face of a negative situation ie. traffic, or cleaning out a ditch.. of course that is only common sense.

 

[mont974x4]

I am sorry to disagree with you brother;
I do believe that the Lord can restore health onto us.
Even if the Lord doesn't, is it not better to live life with hope, and joy than to live with self pity?

Please my bother mont974x4;40906838, stay on topic, don't let others steal our joy of this friendly debate, for this is a way to better understand each other.

We should certainly live with joy and hope and thankfullness in ALL things. IN no way am I advocating self pitty etc. In one of my previous posts I reminded us of the ideal Paul wrote of regarding learning to be content with much and with little....trusting God in ALL things, knowing He is faithful and just in ALL things.

No where in Scripture are we promised, as Joel and others wrongly say that it does, that we will all be healed in this life and that all we have to do is name it and claim it to have wealth and prosperity.

Does God heal today? Yes
Does God bless people with earthly wealth? Yes
Does He heal everyone in this life? Nope


God is not some odd cosmic santa clause waiting to do our bidding, should we have enough faith or ask in the right way or any other such nonsense. Does He give good gifts, that are better than any earthly father can give? Absolutely....but more often than not they are not inline with man's idea of health/wealth/blessings.

 

[mont974x4]

Do you understand how wealth works... in the United States (from Sociology, J. Macionis 2008) 20% of the income earners earn 48.1 % of the income... BUT 85% OF THE WEALTH in this country is owned by that same 20%. And most of that wealth is held by the top 5%, and of that group- mostly by the top 1%. OF that top 1%, most wealth is held by the top .5% of the population..
The top 5% of wage earners make $185,000 or more. The top 1% make $400,000 or more... those who make $1,750,000 or more make up less than .5% of the population. Where do these humble servants of God fit into this picture... do you think?

The idea you have of wealth, whatever you think it is, is NOT what these parasites are packing away.

parasites? Please, it is money that they or someone in their family has earned...some more ethically than others...but your slamming of all people with wealth is, well, sad, and your idea of wealth is unbiblical.

 

[KCDAD]

[F]No my brother GQ Chris;40936402, life in this world is not cursed.
Pastor Osteen teaches us that in his Lord's mercy;
We can all find joy in anything we do;
Be it having to clean out a dirty ditch, sitting in traffic, or having to redo the report that you had worked so hard on, you got to do it, you might as well enjoy it.

Pastor Osteen teaches us we shall reap what we sow in faith, but like planting seeds, the harvest doesn't come up right away.
You may not see the fruits of your labor, but what of your childred, or your grand children.
Okay I don't have children, but when I sow seeds of kindness, for the Lord's glory, I reap a deep joy.
What if I sow in faith and nothing happens, well don't we reap hope?[/font]



[F]
I can not say of the other televangelist.
Pastor Osteen does preaches us to repent, and to live in the Lord's excellence. (live Holy)
Have you read some of the messages of Pastor Osteen I posted on this thread?[/font]

Pastor Osteen teaches us that in his Lord's mercy;
We can all find joy in anything we do; Be it having to clean out a dirty ditch... wait on tables, clean rooms, cook hamburgers, or refold clothes every 15 minutes for the slobs that shop at Walmart.
Isn't that just so 19th century? Don't worry about those guys getting rich off your labor, those that have retirement plans and health insurance, those that have 2 or 4 weeks vacations every years WITH PAY! Be happy in your menial minimum paid job where you do all the work and the do nothing managers get all the rewards. I shouldn't say do nothing.. They get to enforce all the rules against you.
Be happy and praise God you have the strength to work 12-16 hours a day on two or more jobs... so that George Bush can giggle and say "Only in America!" And you still don't have enough to pay the first and last month's rent on a decent apartment.

People like Osteen make me hate America and Americans, Christianity and Christians.

 

[DerSchweik]

He's a false teacher and denied Jesus to millions on Larry King Live.

KING: What if you're Jewish or Muslim, you don't accept Christ at all?

OSTEEN: You know, I'm very careful about saying who would and wouldn't go to heaven. I don't know ...

KING: If you believe you have to believe in Christ? They're wrong, aren't they?

OSTEEN: Well, I don't know if I believe they're wrong. I believe here's what the Bible teaches and from the Christian faith this is what I believe. But I just think that only God with judge a person's heart. I spent a lot of time in India with my father. I don't know all about their religion. But I know they love God. And I don't know. I've seen their sincerity. So I don't know. I know for me, and what the Bible teaches, I want to have a relationship with Jesus.

From CNN LARRY KING LIVE Interview With Joel Osteen
Aired June 20, 2005

"Go in peace, be warmed and filled." (Jas 2:16)

"Be prosperous."

"Be happy."

"Send me money."

"Don't ask me any questions."

"Jesus? My source of income. Yours?"