passover, but not...

cyberlizard

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when it comes to passover, everyone focuses on the passover and very few people talk about the feast of unleavened bread. With this in mind, I thought I would include this link which discusses the final day of unleavened bread which is a high sabbath.... traditionally (from a hasidic jewish POV) it is celebrated as 'the feast of messiah'...

either way, here's a link to the page (well three parts)...



Steve
 

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Which has nothing to do with Christianity and everything to do with Judiam.

The only thing that the Sabbath means to a Christian is that Christ laid in the grave as one dead.

Christians do not celebrate the feast of unleaven bread. We worship the risen Christ. The feast of unleaven bread has been fulfilled and was not brought forward from Judaism to Christianity.

If you celebrate the feast of unleaven bread then you do so with the Jews and not with Christians... for Christians do not celebrate it.

Why would you attempt to discuss this in the christian theology section except as an attempt to draw away those who are searching for Christianity?

For the onlooker... please take the time to learn the difference between Judaism and Christianity.

The feast of unleaven bread is Judaism.

Forgive me...
 
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visionary

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I believe a Christian should always study everything related to the Word of God and not show prejudice.. for God is not a respecter of race.... all should equally study His Word. In other words, if it is in scripture, then it is something God wants us to know and take to heart, and spiritual understand. Especially if He is directrly involved in it. Since Passover is His and so are all the rest of His Feasts... They should be received as such and not thrown around like a hot potato...
 
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cyberlizard

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Which has nothing to do with Christianity and everything to do with Judiam.

The only thing that the Sabbath means to a Christian is that Christ laid in the grave as one dead.

Christians do not celebrate the feast of unleaven bread. We worship the risen Christ. The feast of unleaven bread has been fulfilled and was not brought forward from Judaism to Christianity.

If you celebrate the feast of unleaven bread then you do so with the Jews and not with Christians... for Christians do not celebrate it.

Why would you attempt to discuss this in the christian theology section except as an attempt to draw away those who are searching for Christianity?

For the onlooker... please take the time to learn the difference between Judaism and Christianity.

The feast of unleaven bread is Judaism.

Forgive me...



strange I thought it was scriptural and defined by God as a day set apart specifically for Him, a day holy to the Lord.


Steve
 
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visionary

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Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.


Forgive me...
That does not negate the feasts that are fulfilled from changing form shadows of things to come to memorials. Feasts are one of two things... memorials or shadows.. but they are not finished, they will always have a purpose in our lives.
 
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Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.


Forgive me...

This applies how?

We already know Chrysostom admitted to keeping the way of Jesus and the apostles about the feast, while deposing Christians from their church buildings. Those heretics so-called who wouldn't keep it under man's tradition formed from Xystus I onward (Irenaeus).

St. Columbanus, c600-- Why then dost thou (Roman Church per Pope Domasus)), who art so wise, the brilliant lights indeed of whose sacred genius are diffused, as in ancient times, through the world,—why dost thou keep a dark Easter?
 
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cyberlizard

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Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.


Forgive me...


talk about a misuse of the scripture.

First you have removed its context. The passage is not speaking in regards to a fulfilment of prophecy. Neither does this fit. The context is discussion of the ethics of Torah and discipleship. being as jesus spoke hebrew/aramaic, the underlying word here would be 'bati', which means 'i came to' or i'have come to' and indicates purpose and intention.

Secondly, fulfil in this instance, does not mean to complete and do away with. Contextually, it is in a larger passage involving disputes with some pharisees and jesus rebukes them for observing the lesser commandments rather than the ethical aspect of the Torah. He then chides them telling them they should be fanatical about BOTH. Rather than doing away with the Torah, Jesus solidifies it. As a by and by, Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon, p517 states regarding the meaning of 'pleroo' as 'to make full up, to fill up... Hebraistically, with the accusative of the things which one abounds... to cause God's will to be obeyed as it should be'.

Thirdly, you are interpreting it devoid of its social context. Abolish and fulfil being common expressions of the day with technical meaning within a religious context, the underlying hebrew words being 'batel' 'abolish' and 'kiyem' 'fulfil'. Where they pertain to valid and invalid interpretations of the Torah.




Steve
 
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pehkay

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In 1 Corinthians 5:8 Paul continues, “So then let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.” This verse reveals that Christ is the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. As the unleavened bread, Christ is for us to live a pure church life. In the church there should be no leaven, which in the Bible signifies all the negative things such as wrong doctrines and practices, evil deeds, and sinful things.

Although in Christ we are unleavened, according to our natural being we are full of leaven. The crucial question is whether we eat unleavened bread or leavened bread. In other words, do we live Christ or do we live ourselves? If we live Christ, we eat unleavened bread, but if we live ourselves, we eat leavened bread.

In 1 Corinthians 5:7 Paul charges us to purge out the old leaven that we may be a new lump, even as we are unleavened. We need to be a new lump, which refers to the church, composed of the believers in their new nature. We are unleavened in Christ and should live according to Him, not according to ourselves.

The feast mentioned in verse 8 refers to the Feast of Unleavened Bread as the continuation of the Passover (Exo. 12:15-20). The Passover itself lasted only one day. Continuing from the Passover, the Feast of Unleavened Bread lasted seven days, a period of completion, signifying the entire period of our Christian life, from the day of our conversion to the day of rapture. This is a long feast, which we must keep not with the sin of our old nature, the old leaven, but with unleavened bread, which is the Christ of our new nature as our nourishment and enjoyment. Only He is the life supply of sincerity and truth, absolutely pure, without mixture, and full of reality. The feast is a time for the enjoyment of the banquet. The entire Christian life should be such a feast, such an enjoyment of Christ as our banquet, the rich supply of life.

According to Exodus 12, during the seven days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, no leaven was to be found in the houses (v. 19), and no leaven was to be seen among the people of Israel (13:7). This signifies that, although it is impossible for us to be completely without sin, we must eliminate any sin that is seen; that is, we must forsake the sin of which we are conscious (cf. Heb. 12:1). To deal with manifested sin is to keep the Feast of Unleavened Bread (1 Cor. 5:7-8). If we tolerate sin once it is exposed, we will lose the enjoyment of the fellowship of God’s people (Exo. 12:19; 1 Cor. 5:13). The only way to eliminate sin is to daily eat Christ as the crucified, resurrected, and sinless life, signified by the unleavened bread.

In 1 Corinthians 5:7 and 8 we have two feasts: the Feast of the Passover and the Feast of Unleavened Bread. When we were saved, we enjoyed the Feast of the Passover. Now throughout our entire Christian life we should enjoy the Feast of Unleavened Bread. The Christian life is a feast of unleavened bread, a feast of the enjoyment of Christ as our life supply without any leaven. Day by day we need to keep the Feast of Unleavened Bread. We should keep this feast throughout the course of our Christian life until we see the Lord.

Unleavened bread indicates a living which is without sin, without leaven. In ourselves we cannot possibly have this kind of living. However, in Christ it is possible to live a sinless life. We have been put into Christ, and now we must learn to live in Christ and by Christ. Then He will become our unleavened life supply. He will become the source, the fountain, of a sinless life and living. Because we have such a source and supply, it is possible for us to live a sinless life.

As the unleavened bread, Christ is the spiritual and divine food that makes us unleavened. The unleavened bread signifies the sinless Christ who is to be dispensed into us, His believers, as the unleavened (sinless) element. Just as the children of Israel ate the passover lamb with the unleavened bread, we should eat Christ not only as the Lamb but also as the unleavened bread. When we take Christ as our life, this life purifies us. This life is an unleavened life, a purifying life. The more we call on the name of the Lord Jesus and take Him into us, the more we are purified from within.

From the time of our regeneration, we began to have a new constitution. Christ as the unleavened bread became our unleavened food to reconstitute us so that we may become a new lump, the church. Before regeneration we were the old lump, full of leaven. But now we have become a new lump because we are becoming unleavened. As the unleavened bread He causes us to be unleavened constitutionally, making us a new lump, a lump without leaven. This means that we become a new creation without sin (2 Cor. 5:17).

In the book of 1 Corinthians Paul compares the New Testament believers to the children of Israel. He takes the history of the children of Israel as a background for this Epistle. This gives us the ground to say that the history of the children of Israel is a full type of our Christian life in the church life. The children of Israel did not live individualistically; on the contrary, they lived, camped, traveled, and fought battles together. Their corporate life typifies our life in the church. After experiencing the passover, they kept the Feast of Unleavened Bread. This indicates that we also should keep this feast. The church life is a feast of unleavened bread. For this reason, any leaven must be purged out of the church.

In order to live a life without sin, we must daily eat Christ as unleavened bread. Since we are what we eat, if we eat unleavened bread, we will eventually become constituted with unleavened bread. Then we will live an unleavened life. Although in ourselves it is impossible ever to be sinless, in Christ we can become sinless by eating Him as the source and supply of a sinless life. Since Christ, our source, is unleavened, if we feast on Him daily, we can have an unleavened church life.
 
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talk about a misuse of the scripture.

First you have removed its context. The passage is not speaking in regards to a fulfilment of prophecy. Neither does this fit. The context is discussion of the ethics of Torah and discipleship. being as jesus spoke hebrew/aramaic, the underlying word here would be 'bati', which means 'i came to' or i'have come to' and indicates purpose and intention.

Secondly, fulfil in this instance, does not mean to complete and do away with. Contextually, it is in a larger passage involving disputes with some pharisees and jesus rebukes them for observing the lesser commandments rather than the ethical aspect of the Torah. He then chides them telling them they should be fanatical about BOTH. Rather than doing away with the Torah, Jesus solidifies it. As a by and by, Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon, p517 states regarding the meaning of 'pleroo' as 'to make full up, to fill up... Hebraistically, with the accusative of the things which one abounds... to cause God's will to be obeyed as it should be'.

Thirdly, you are interpreting it devoid of its social context. Abolish and fulfil being common expressions of the day with technical meaning within a religious context, the underlying hebrew words being 'batel' 'abolish' and 'kiyem' 'fulfil'. Where they pertain to valid and invalid interpretations of the Torah.




Steve

Never the less... it is what The Churches teach about the subject. Argue as you wish. This is what is handed down.

Forgive me...
 
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squint

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talk about a misuse of the scripture.

First you have removed its context. The passage is not speaking in regards to a fulfilment of prophecy. Neither does this fit. The context is discussion of the ethics of Torah and discipleship. being as jesus spoke hebrew/aramaic, the underlying word here would be 'bati', which means 'i came to' or i'have come to' and indicates purpose and intention.

Secondly, fulfil in this instance, does not mean to complete and do away with. Contextually, it is in a larger passage involving disputes with some pharisees and jesus rebukes them for observing the lesser commandments rather than the ethical aspect of the Torah. He then chides them telling them they should be fanatical about BOTH.
Steve

The bolded part is simply NOT true as to 'how' Jesus saw the 'food laws' in Mark 7:15 & 18 where Jesus outright DENIES that anything entering into the mouth can DEFILE a person.

I agree with much of what Messianic believers see in these matters, but from a strict Judaism perspective MOST of them are HARDLINE literalists to this day and do not see 'as deeply' some of these spiritual matters.

The feast of unleavened bread contains MUCH spiritual significance. Far more than I care to write about here, as does the Passover, which PRIMARY PURPOSE was to remind ISRAEL that the AVENGING ANGEL will assuredly DESTROY not only the Egyptians BUT THEM as well.

Hebrews 11:28
Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.

The celebration of Easter has largely VOIDED the knowledge of the OTHER PART of the PASSOVER which is JUST AS CRUCIAL to understand, as the LATTER is YET TO COME.

John the Baptist, when SPEAKING HERE, spoke of the WRATH of the AVENGING ANGEL, the PASSOVER that is yet to come as it DID IN and upon EGYPT. The 'firstborn' nomenclature is also extremely significant and interesting.

Matthew 3:7
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?

Luke 3:7
John said to the crowds coming out to be baptized by him, "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?

IT was THE VIPERS who have inserted LEAVEN into the BREAD of GODS WORD.

Those same VIPERS remain upon the earth to this day, and have MULTIPLIED their sins nearly beyond the measure.

enjoy!

squint
 
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The bolded part is simply NOT true as to 'how' Jesus saw the 'food laws' in Mark 7:15 & 18 where Jesus outright DENIES that anything entering into the mouth can DEFILE a person.

I agree with much of what Messianic believers see in these matters, but from a strict Judaism perspective MOST of them are HARDLINE literalists to this day and do not see 'as deeply' some of these spiritual matters.

The feast of unleavened bread contains MUCH spiritual significance. Far more than I care to write about here, as does the Passover, which PRIMARY PURPOSE was to remind ISRAEL that the AVENGING ANGEL will assuredly DESTROY not only the Egyptians BUT THEM as well.

Hebrews 11:28
Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.

The celebration of Easter has largely VOIDED the knowledge of the OTHER PART of the PASSOVER which is JUST AS CRUCIAL to understand, as the LATTER is YET TO COME.

John the Baptist, when SPEAKING HERE, spoke of the WRATH of the AVENGING ANGEL, the PASSOVER that is yet to come as it DID IN and upon EGYPT. The 'firstborn' nomenclature is also extremely significant and interesting.

Matthew 3:7
But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?

Luke 3:7
John said to the crowds coming out to be baptized by him, "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath?

IT was THE VIPERS who have inserted LEAVEN into the BREAD of GODS WORD.

Those same VIPERS remain upon the earth to this day, and have MULTIPLIED their sins nearly beyond the measure.

enjoy!

squint

Are bold red fonts your favorite color?:)
 
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squint

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Are bold red fonts your favorite color?:)

Therein are contained some interesting and 'personal' facts IF you can see them. IF you can, feel free to remark on them as THAT is why I emphasized them.

Israel was NOT void of either Vipers or 'firstborns' within every one of them. The PASSOVER PLEA was for GODS MERCY unto them, them being HIS CHILDREN also in their 'lump.' This is what ALL of Israel shows us ALL.
 
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when it comes to passover, everyone focuses on the passover and very few people talk about the feast of unleavened bread. With this in mind, I thought I would include this link which discusses the final day of unleavened bread which is a high sabbath.... traditionally (from a hasidic jewish POV) it is celebrated as 'the feast of messiah'...

either way, here's a link to the page (well three parts)...



Steve

I have read several books recently investigating the events surrounding the Last Supper. The consensus among modern scholars is that the Last Supper was NOT a seder meal. Of course there are arguments for and against, but when you line up all the data to what makes the most sense, this is what they come up with. And I'm not talking about Orthodox scholars here;) Orthodox have always known this:):):)
 
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The bolded part is simply NOT true as to 'how' Jesus saw the 'food laws' in Mark 7:15 & 18 where Jesus outright DENIES that anything entering into the mouth can DEFILE a person.



squint


context context context....

the discussion is around netilat yadamim... the washing of hands. eating clean foods with unwashed hands does not defile as the washing of hands is a tradition (name given back there) not a commandment. If Jesus was telling Jews they could eat meat he would be attempting to do the very thing he told the pharisees not to do. Jesus comments are all the commandments are valid. If Jesus is saying some are not you're understanding is faulty. You can't have Jesus telling the Pharisees to be dillgent in observance if he is encouraging flouting of the commands.



Steve
 
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