Passover 37 AD

[visionary]

http://www.hebcal.com/hebcal/?year=37;v=1;month=3;yt=G;nh=on;nx=on;i=off;vis=on;c=off;geo=zip

Wednesday night seder , thursday Passover ?? saturday night??sunday morning ressurection??

 

[johnd]

"WARNING: Results for year 1752 C.E. and before may not be accurate."

 

[johnd]

The trouble was the inaccuracy of date and records keeping. There is even a (disputed) variance on 125 years in the Hebrew calendar... It is alleged that a Jewish sage altered the calendar to prevent the year 4000 from being anywhere near the time of Jesus and favor Bar Kochbar circa 122 CE. As I said it is disputed.

Regardless, it is difficult to find two shuls (let alone a consensus) two agree on ancient Hebrew dates / calendars.

Then there's the Gentile handling of the calendar which even recent history records a 10 day variance that was wiped away with the stroke of a papal pen. Look up the birth of George Washington for example and you will see a new calendar / old calendar thing going here.

IMHO this is the Lord's doing. For the same reason we do not have pieces of the cross he died on, the cloth he rose in (despite claims and mysteries of the shroud of Turin) or know where the Ark of Noah or the Ark of the Covenant is for that matter...

All that matters is:

John 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I AM, you will indeed die in your sins.”

John 8:58 “I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I AM!”

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

John 5:23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

John 15:23 He who hates me hates my Father as well.

1 John 2:23 No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

God wants Jesus uplifted... not artifacts nor days nor religious symbols. God spent the better part of seven thousand years trying to wean humanity off the religion dole which began in Eden with fig leaves.

 

[johnd]

Furthermore, Judaism today is different than it was in the first century.

• the temple was standing
• levitical priesthood functioning
• scriptures tanakh were not canonized
• God incarnate was not ruled out but anticipated
• there was no need to prove how unchristian they were
• even prominent members of the sanhedrin could not be certain Jesus of nazareth was not the promised messiah
• passover disputes continued

It was uncertain whether Seder was to be conducted on 14 or 15 Nisan. So, in the first century CE there was a Galilean Seder (on the eve of the 14th) and a Judean Seder (on the eve of the 15th as it is today). This also helped with crowding in the Holy City (Jerusalem not Rome!!!).

This is how Jesus could keep passover be arrested and crucified later that same day before passover the evening of the next day. Remember sunset to sunset is the Jewish day.

Sunset to sunset
sunset sunset
swiftly flow the days
seedlings turn overnight to sunflowers
blossoming even as we gaze

sunset to sunset

The Jewish version of Fiddler...

 

[johnd]

I could see either a Wednesday Seder Thursday crucifixion (Sabbath eve before Sunday resurrection) or a Thursday Seder Friday crucifixion (Sunday resurrection). I lean towards Wednesday:

• Wed. full three days three nights in tomb
• Thur. is a shortened night
• Fri. is a Gentile mishandling of the descriptive texts (sunset to sunset days for example)
• Sat. eve Sun. resurrection fulfills both completion and new beginning gamatria
• Wed. puts Triumphal Entry on 10 Nisan (fulfills Daniel 9 24-26) 173,880 days after Artexerxes Longimanus writing the decree to rebuild the Holy City

 

[johnd]

But as I said, I realized one day these things are not the point. Y'shua is!

 

[Eben Abram]

Shalom ALecheim

Often there is a "need" to approve or "prove" the bible that sadly many great men and women of G-d waste a good portion of their life haggling out a conclusion they eventually come to.

What God said, God said.

If Messiah said, and He did, that he was three days and three nights in the Earth as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the Whale

Then it is obvious, three days and three nights.

The reason I say this is because I am about to say something that could have been just as easily true if you were into having to approve or prove all things.

Since it was three days and three nights Messiah rose on Monday Evening......

You see, Night one is Friday Night,
Day One is Saturday
Night Two is Saturday Night
Day Two in Sunday
Night Three is Sunday Night
Day Three is Monday

Which puts a Ressurection about Monday night after two or three stars appear.

----------

I know I just started a cult and there are some going HUH? and a few really clever people going, Well I'll be, I never thought of that.

--------

You see, in Proving and Disproving, most never treat the subject a Open minded Jew would or a programmer in logics.

The reason People Beleived in Good Friday is because they were told.
The reason most think Sunday is the Resrurrection is because they were told.

The problem with people is they were never told to think.
They have been told to Accpet or Beleive as though your Faith was really meant to be the blind leading the blind rather than a precise, concise thinking, pondering and READING the Bible.

You don't need to know Hebraic Roots, I am sorry, that is a rather protracted excuse to get you to rethink your biases in this society because too many people were already given a MInd Set that no matter how you looked at Jesus, you saw blond hair blue eyed hippie.

Now we get the opposite wacko idea the people are telling you that He was a Pharasee and layed t'fillin and prayed siddur and made all kinds of rediculous Jewish Americanisms to break the mold of your ideas.

Both are wrong and are out there to TELL YOU what to beleive.

I have an easier one that Scott Brown of Chosen People told me how He went to Alaska and a Bible School there that changed every stereotype.

He read the Bible.
Yeah, just read the bible.

In english of all things.

Oh I forgot, It had no chapter, no verse numbers, no cute little study aids just the Bible as one long book.

One Book, One long read and a lot of alone time journalizing and preparing to discuss together with others verbally what they had read, with NO ONE adjusting the free flow of how each person alone came to the conclusions they did.

That Man of G-d, is the Most powerful Jew I ever met so far.

His knowledge is so vast in thought, I never forgot his premise.

Just read, and then think about it.

I took years to think about all I hold as true.


Think about this, if you just read the bible, what would you come up with, when no one is interpreting but G-d and you.?

(Ps. I am not saying the Rez day is on Tuesday LOL)

Eben Abram

 

[The Time Traveller]

Matthew 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the
first [day] of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary
to see the sepulchre.

John 20:1 The first [day] of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early,
when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone
taken away from the sepulchre.

Acts 20:7 And upon the first [day] of the week, when the disciples
came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to
depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

 

[visionary]

Shalom ALecheim

Often there is a "need" to approve or "prove" the bible that sadly many great men and women of G-d waste a good portion of their life haggling out a conclusion they eventually come to.

What God said, God said.

If Messiah said, and He did, that he was three days and three nights in the Earth as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the Whale

Then it is obvious, three days and three nights.

The reason I say this is because I am about to say something that could have been just as easily true if you were into having to approve or prove all things.

Since it was three days and three nights Messiah rose on Monday Evening......

You see, Night one is Friday Night,
Day One is Saturday
Night Two is Saturday Night
Day Two in Sunday
Night Three is Sunday Night
Day Three is Monday

Which puts a Ressurection about Monday night after two or three stars appear.

----------

I know I just started a cult and there are some going HUH? and a few really clever people going, Well I'll be, I never thought of that.

--------

You see, in Proving and Disproving, most never treat the subject a Open minded Jew would or a programmer in logics.

The reason People Beleived in Good Friday is because they were told.
The reason most think Sunday is the Resrurrection is because they were told.

The problem with people is they were never told to think.
They have been told to Accpet or Beleive as though your Faith was really meant to be the blind leading the blind rather than a precise, concise thinking, pondering and READING the Bible.

You don't need to know Hebraic Roots, I am sorry, that is a rather protracted excuse to get you to rethink your biases in this society because too many people were already given a MInd Set that no matter how you looked at Jesus, you saw blond hair blue eyed hippie.

Now we get the opposite wacko idea the people are telling you that He was a Pharasee and layed t'fillin and prayed siddur and made all kinds of rediculous Jewish Americanisms to break the mold of your ideas.

Both are wrong and are out there to TELL YOU what to beleive.

I have an easier one that Scott Brown of Chosen People told me how He went to Alaska and a Bible School there that changed every stereotype.

He read the Bible.
Yeah, just read the bible.

In english of all things.

Oh I forgot, It had no chapter, no verse numbers, no cute little study aids just the Bible as one long book.

One Book, One long read and a lot of alone time journalizing and preparing to discuss together with others verbally what they had read, with NO ONE adjusting the free flow of how each person alone came to the conclusions they did.

That Man of G-d, is the Most powerful Jew I ever met so far.

His knowledge is so vast in thought, I never forgot his premise.

Just read, and then think about it.

I took years to think about all I hold as true.


Think about this, if you just read the bible, what would you come up with, when no one is interpreting but G-d and you.?

(Ps. I am not saying the Rez day is on Tuesday LOL)

Eben Abram

Now time traveler pointed out the substance to the Sunday/Saturday night ressurection. Let's work from facts rather than philosophy.

 

[dvd_holc]

Has anyone considered that Israel celebrated the meal and that night the 15th God visited the land and killed the first born sons...then Jesus captured on the night after the meal to be killed...

 

[GuardianShua]

2 Kings 20:9
Isaiah answered, "This is the LORD's sign to you that the LORD will do what he has promised: Shall the shadow go forward ten steps, or shall it go back ten steps?"

2 Kings 20:10
"It is a simple matter for the shadow to go forward ten steps," said Hezekiah. "Rather, have it go back ten steps."

2 Kings 20:11
Then the prophet Isaiah called upon the LORD, and the LORD made the shadow go back the ten steps it had gone down on the stairway of Ahaz.

Isaiah 38:8
I will make the shadow cast by the sun go back the ten steps it has gone down on the stairway of Ahaz.' " So the sunlight went back the ten steps it had gone down.

 

[GuardianShua]

I am taking a vacation from the forum everyone, and I do not know when I will be back. I just wanted to say Good bye for now.

 

[johnd]

Well... you know me... can't leave well enough alone.

Though I still stand by the point that Jesus and his death burial and resurrection are all that really matters.

The text indicates the "dawn" of the "first day of the week." BUT we have to bear in mind that the Greek text still has a Jewish mindset. Specifically, when is the dawn of a day in Jewish thinking? Sunrise as most would glean from the text? Or sunset?

With little exception most NT scholars agree the difference between the Greek in the epistles of Peter and those of Paul are scholarship (making Paul's epistles flow better). Peter's Greek is rougher and at times frustrating to the Greek grammarian... UNTIL you remember it is a Hebrew mind expressing truth with Greek grammar.

More than likely Dr. Luke took Paul's dictation as did John Mark Peter's dictation. Luke was a doctor and educated. Mark was half Greek and half Jew. And just fyi the Gospel of Luke and book of Acts are believed by many to be Paul's trial briefs for his appeal to Cesar.

Don't misunderstand me. God can and does speak to people through the English as well as the Greek or the Hebrew. Often times a yahoo like me will see something in the English that two thousand years of scholarship missed.

I am just saying we cannot discount the fact that answers to the puzzles like what day of the week the crucifixion took place would have to take into consideration the more in depth study. Like the different times of day the crucifixion were reported to take place... to show there is no contradiction one HAS to seek the Hebrew mindset and the Greek mindset for telling time. Then both concur perfectly.

 

[johnd]

I am uncertain about the point you are making here.

Contrary to the recently re-released movie, the Day the Earth Stood Still was in Joshua chapter 10.

The day it went backwards for ten hours is what you brought up, MTA, but I'm not sure why... ???

2 Kings 20:9
Isaiah answered, "This is the LORD's sign to you that the LORD will do what he has promised: Shall the shadow go forward ten steps, or shall it go back ten steps?"

2 Kings 20:10
"It is a simple matter for the shadow to go forward ten steps," said Hezekiah. "Rather, have it go back ten steps."

2 Kings 20:11
Then the prophet Isaiah called upon the LORD, and the LORD made the shadow go back the ten steps it had gone down on the stairway of Ahaz.

Isaiah 38:8
I will make the shadow cast by the sun go back the ten steps it has gone down on the stairway of Ahaz.' " So the sunlight went back the ten steps it had gone down.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Pontius Pilate was Procurator from 26 to 36 AD.

If the last supper took place in 37...well, you see the problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontius_pilate

 

[Eben Abram]

I am taking a vacation from the forum everyone, and I do not know when I will be back. I just wanted to say Good bye for now.

Shalom ALecheim

With the times and seasons, it is hard for many to have internet which taken for granted now, once was considered a luxury. May it be that if finances are you need, the Lord Provide.

G-d is with you. No one doubts that. We may disagree as to what amount of interaction you are with Him or whether to religion you hold to as opposed to relationship, but the Commandment has been to" let every man be fully persuaded in thier own mind".

That I can deal with.

You are fully persuaded as to your POV and I know, SO was Paul, till there was Intervention.

I man running as fast as he can will find the wall sooner than the one who walk in circles fearing the wall he never finds.

May the hand of the lord be upon you as you seek the time away and be as G-d leads you, how he leads you, the way he leads you. What that is of no importance to me, only that I know, he is leading you.

One day it would be nice if we agree, even though we don't, it doesn't mean you are not welcome or loved.

Be well, Be led, and be learned in the Ways of the Lord.

Eben Abram

 

[ContraMundum]

Pontius Pilate was Procurator from 26 to 36 AD.

If the last supper took place in 37...well, you see the problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontius_pilate

Yep...good point.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

We know that after the crucifixion the women bought spices to anoint Jesus' body. A Friday crucifixion leaves Saturday as the only full day that passed until the resurrection. On the Sabbath the markets were closed. In fact there were two Sabbaths that passed between the crucifixion and the Resurrection, a weekly Sabbath and an annual Sabbath (first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread). The only time frame that has a regular working day between the crucifixion and the resurrection is Tuesday night Seder, Wednesday crucifixion and Saturday afternoon resurrection.

 

[GuardianShua]

http://www.hebcal.com/hebcal/?year=37;v=1;month=3;yt=G;nh=on;nx=on;i=off;vis=on;c=off;geo=zip

Wednesday night seder , thursday Passover ?? saturday night??sunday morning ressurection??

The women did not attened Yahshua's grave Sunday because it also was a Sabbath day were no work was to be done.

According to this article the weekly cycle was not changed. Gregory dropped 10 days to bring the calendar back into synchronization with the seasons. Lilius originally proposed that the 10-day correction should be implemented by deleting the Julian leap day on each of its ten occurrences during a period of 40 years, thereby providing for a gradual return of the equinox to 21 March. However, Clavius's opinion was that the correction should take place in one move and it was this advice which prevailed with Gregory. Accordingly, when the new calendar was put in use, the error accumulated in the 13 centuries since the Council of Nicaea was corrected by a deletion of ten days. The last day of the Julian calendar was Thursday, 4 October 1582 and this was followed by the first day of the Gregorian calendar, Friday, 15 October 1582 (the cycle of weekdays was not affected).

 

[johnd]

The tomb was discovered empty after the sabbath. And as I said according to the Jewish reckoning the sabbath was over at sunset saturday evening... the beginning of the first day of the week... sunday. What gentiles take to mean dawning (sunrise) to the Jewish mind dawn (beginning) is sunset. I believe the term translated to "between the evenings." So the women could have prepared saturday evening to anoint the body.

Also the 10 day variance in gentile calendars (to say nothing of BC / AD discrepancies of about 5 - 7 years) is not the only thing that causes difficulty in back dating which year was what. Even if there was no rabbinical tampering... the fact that the variances of lining up lunar years (Hebrew) with solar years (gentile) have such a wide variation from year to year makes it near impossible to dtermine precisely what year was what (at least to everyone's satisfaction).

Generally speaking the scholarship agrees (since it cannot be nailed down) that Yeshua was born in the Autumn of 5 BCE and was glorified 30 CE... which would make him about 33 in age (remember there is no year 0).