Passive husband

[Music of the Spheres]

Hello people, this is my first post here in this forum.

Could someone please offer me some Christian advice for a problem our family is having?

We have 5 children, mostly teenagers. I try to set reasonable rules, like the kids need to stay home on school nights, and there should be a curfew on weekends, and the younger ones need to have a regular bedtime, and the kids shouldn't eat all the junk food they want. I am not overly strict, I would just like to be sure my kids are home in the evening to do their homework, that they aren't out too late at night on weekends, and that they eat some veggies along with the Dr. Pepper. I also would prefer that they not listen to really terrible music or wear really offensive clothing.

The trouble is, my husband doesn't care about any of this. If the kids get to him first, he will give them persmission to do practically anything they want. If they want to see a movie, he just gives them the money for the ticket and doesn't even ask what the movie is or when the child will be back. Not only does he have no standards of his own, he ignores the few standards I've tried to keep in place. The kids do no chores, either. If I tell one to please wash the dishes, half the time my husband will wash them instead.

My husband is a very mild, passive sort of a guy. He attends church, but doesn't seem to take it very seriously. He sits in the pew and smiles pleasantly. He is a Christian.

Any advice? We've been married for a long time now, and as he gets older it's just getting worse. It's the only thing we ever argue about, but sometimes the arguments get pretty severe. It's actually a little worse than being a single parent because at least a single parent can make rules without fear of being countermanded. Our household is in chaos at present. We did go see the pastor for counselling and the pastor privately told me my husband was the most passive man he had ever met and the situation was hopeless.

If you don't have any good advice, then please pray for us. The situation is getting worse with the youngest child.

-music

 

[Kiwi]

Maybe you might need to go to some kind of professional counselling, not to say anything bad about your pastor but sometimes seeing someone who has studied these things can be helpful. It must be hard for you, my husband and I work as a team on the discipline otherwises the kids go for 'divide and conquor'. Well ours are only preschoolers and we only have to discipline one, since the other one is a baby, but I am not looking forward to those teenage years!!

 

[Katydid]

I agree that you need to see someone BESIDES that pastor. I have never heard a counselor say that something is "hopeless". Truly, look into some other counselor.

On top of that, discuss what rules your husband would put in place. Talk to him about your concerns, don't argue, just discuss. There is a huge difference in how things are taken when you start off with, "Why do you always" instead of "honey can you help me".

I will be praying for the two of you, and for your children who must be truly confused and searching for some unity in their home.

 

[we5frogs]

You say that your husband is the most passive man your pastor has ever met. If he met mine, he would most probably grant him #2 status.

Seriously, I totally understand how frustrating this can be. I guess my first question is - does your husband give any indication of why he thinks rules are not necessary? Is it truly that he doesn't see them as important? In our case, my husband is such a 'people pleaser' that he is actually afraid that the kids might 'get mad at him' if he says no, so he either gives them whatever they want, or if its something bigger or more important, just says 'ask your mother' in order to get himself out of the 'hot seat'.

I have been praying about this for a long time myself. While he has made almost no progress in being able to place limits himself, the one area where we have been able to come to terms is with support. We talked a lot together about how important it is to back each other up, support each other and not let the children be affected by our differences. Kids are brilliant, and it doesn't take them long to lose respect for the parent setting the limits when they know how easily the limits can be ovturned by the other parent. Katydid had great advice when she said 'ask for his help', rather than focus on what he is not doing. You and your husband need to be a team, working toward a common goal. Most husband's (especially the sports minded) can understand this concept as it speaks to something they understand and are comfortable with.

You say the youngest is concerning you, how old is this child. Boy or girl?

I will pray for your family. Please let us know how things are going. Feel free to PM me if you need to talk.

 

[Music of the Spheres]

Thank you everyone for your advice.

I think that pastor said my husband's passivity was hopeless because he, the pastor, had no plans for discipling him.

You say the youngest is concerning you, how old is this child. Boy or girl?

He's a fifteen year old boy, very sweet-natured but very into the punk music scene, which I can't stand but my husband says, "It's just music." I have a rule that he may only listen to "Christian" punk, if there is such a thing, but my husband lets him get whatever he wants if I'm not there to object. My husband does not even look at the label. When I object his standard answer is "It's just music."

I guess my first question is - does your husband give any indication of why he thinks rules are not necessary?

When we talk about this, he will say, "yeah, we need rules." So we set a few. And when it comes time to enforce them he'll say "What's the big deal?" This is like living on quicksand, let me tell you.

just says 'ask your mother' in order to get himself out of the 'hot seat'.

Very common here, too.

On top of that, discuss what rules your husband would put in place. Talk to him about your concerns, don't argue, just discuss. There is a huge difference in how things are taken when you start off with, "Why do you always" instead of "honey can you help me".

We talk and talk and talk, always at my instigation. Most of these talks are not arguments because my husband is not argumentative. I have gone to him in tears with "Honey can you help me." And he will say "I've really let the family down, I'm sorry" and say he will try harder and the very next time he will forget all about our conversation.

As to professional counseling- he won't go. He doesn't think there's a problem. He refused to go see the pastor that time but the pastor called him and exhorted him to come, for all the good it did us.

Again, thanks for your advice and prayers.

Love,
MotS

 

[Svt4Him]

Hello people, this is my first post here in this forum.

Could someone please offer me some Christian advice for a problem our family is having?

We have 5 children, mostly teenagers. I try to set reasonable rules, like the kids need to stay home on school nights, and there should be a curfew on weekends, and the younger ones need to have a regular bedtime, and the kids shouldn't eat all the junk food they want. I am not overly strict, I would just like to be sure my kids are home in the evening to do their homework, that they aren't out too late at night on weekends, and that they eat some veggies along with the Dr. Pepper. I also would prefer that they not listen to really terrible music or wear really offensive clothing.

The trouble is, my husband doesn't care about any of this. If the kids get to him first, he will give them persmission to do practically anything they want. If they want to see a movie, he just gives them the money for the ticket and doesn't even ask what the movie is or when the child will be back. Not only does he have no standards of his own, he ignores the few standards I've tried to keep in place. The kids do no chores, either. If I tell one to please wash the dishes, half the time my husband will wash them instead.

My husband is a very mild, passive sort of a guy. He attends church, but doesn't seem to take it very seriously. He sits in the pew and smiles pleasantly. He is a Christian.

Any advice? We've been married for a long time now, and as he gets older it's just getting worse. It's the only thing we ever argue about, but sometimes the arguments get pretty severe. It's actually a little worse than being a single parent because at least a single parent can make rules without fear of being countermanded. Our household is in chaos at present. We did go see the pastor for counselling and the pastor privately told me my husband was the most passive man he had ever met and the situation was hopeless.

If you don't have any good advice, then please pray for us. The situation is getting worse with the youngest child.

-music

Well first off I have to say get divorce out of your mind. It seems by bringing in a pastor who obviously doesn't believe with God all things can be possible, so I would throw his advice out the window, as well as using it as an excuse to justify any feelings against your husband. Men are to love their spouses, women are to respect their husbands. If you find you can't do this, take it up with God, as it's His plan.

 

[Music of the Spheres]

Well first off I have to say get divorce out of your mind.

Divorce never entered my mind. Why did it enter yours?

It seems by bringing in a pastor who obviously doesn't believe with God all things can be possible, so I would throw his advice out the window,

Yes, we did throw his advice out the window as it was no advice at all.

... as well as using it as an excuse to justify any feelings against your husband.

I love my husband. I am frustrated because there is no order in our famility life, only chaos.

Men are to love their spouses, women are to respect their husbands. If you find you can't do this, take it up with God, as it's His plan.

I hope you will be praying for us.

 

[Jenna]

There are many times when a steady man will chose to give in and let people have their way, simply to have peace in a home. The best way to handle it would probably be to honor your husband, and find a peaceful way to handle the conflict with your children.

One thing that you may want to consider is to take your husband out of the middle of your power struggle with the teenagers. If you give them the room to play the two of you off each other, it seems obvious that they will do it (going to dad, because they know that you will say 'no'). Go ahead and discipline your children away from what your husband is. Impress upon your children how important it is to do handle responsibilities with a good attitude. If your husband gives his blessing to a child, refrain from disrespecting him, and especially in front of your kids.

My husband is a very mild, passive sort of a guy. He attends church, but doesn't seem to take it very seriously. He sits in the pew and smiles pleasantly. He is a Christian.

Oh, if only more people would smile pleasantly. I think that you are stepping way out of bounds, in judging his faith. Men and women are different, and a man will not always exercise his faith (or even share it) in ways that you will identify with. Let me tell ya though, if he is getting this "holier than thou" vibe from you, he's apt not to share his spiritual leadings with you at all. Respect and honor your husband, building him up in his relationship with the Lord. If you do not respect his decisions, feelings, relationship with God, he is certainly not going to bring you into the most vulnerable areas of his heart.

For all of the dietary rules, censorship on movies and musict, and the like, it's all useless if you don't teach your children the fundamental lessons that they need. An action movie may be full of explosions and cuss words, but what will really influence a child is to watch mom disrespect dad and talk down about him. All the nasty lyrics in the world will not convince a child that women are disposible sexual objects, if they treasure their mother as a joyful, industrious, caring, and honorable woman. You've got separate issues here. #1 is how you and your husband work within your marriage. #2 is how you interact with and teach your children. I wouldn't be so quick to blame your husband for the movies that the kids watch. The big question is - why do your children have such little reguard for your teaching? Why do your children not want to do what is healthy for them? What are more effective ways to capture their hearts, so they will want to do what is good on their own?

 

[elizabethevangeline]

Oh, if only more people would smile pleasantly. I think that you are stepping way out of bounds, in judging his faith. Men and women are different, and a man will not always exercise his faith (or even share it) in ways that you will identify with. Let me tell ya though, if he is getting this "holier than thou" vibe from you, he's apt not to share his spiritual leadings with you at all. Respect and honor your husband, building him up in his relationship with the Lord. If you do not respect his decisions, feelings, relationship with God, he is certainly not going to bring you into the most vulnerable areas of his heart.

An action movie may be full of explosions and cuss words, but what will really influence a child is to watch mom disrespect dad and talk down about him.

I'm getting more of a "holier than thou" vibe from you Jenna, than I did anything Music of the Spheres wrote about her husband. You assume much that it not warranted.

For all of the dietary rules, censorship on movies and musict, and the like, it's all useless if you don't teach your children the fundamental lessons that they need

Yes, this is true. But I'm reading a description of a parent who is not able to set any boundaries, which is part of teaching fundamental lessons to a child about what they need.

The big question is - why do your children have such little reguard for your teaching?

Much of what parents teach is by example...could it be these kids are following Dad's example? Maybe here is evidence that it's Mom who is disrespected, unloved even, by Dad and not the other way around?



Parenting is so precarious and individual, and so important to do to the best of our ability that we should be careful whom we take advice from. And we should be careful to give advice only from our own experience, only as a "what worked for me" NOT as a "you should do this..." or "you must be doing this wrong...".

 

[Jenna]

I won't make apologies for saying it is wrong to judge a man's communion with the Lord because he doesn't express himself the same way that his wife, or any woman, does. That DOES seem to say that her (whichever woman) spirituality is superior to his because she does not know what is going on in his heart. Call me "holier than thou" if you will, but I am not questioning the O.P.'s relationship with God, only her wisdom in thinking/speaking such things about her husband.

Yes, this is true. But I'm reading a description of a parent who is not able to set any boundaries, which is part of teaching fundamental lessons to a child about what they need.

If a person wants someone to change, then they had better be looking in the mirror. lol I don't know if I have ever met a woman who has successfully chided her husband into submission, to cause him to do things the way that she wanted. Instead, I've seen many miserable husbands and wives. If the children are going to learn about boundaries, it is a good thing that their mother can set them. However, the good that she does will also be countered by the negative view they may gain of both mom and dad, should they see her "correct" him and tell him that his judgements aren't good enough. In today's society, it is a difficult thing to shrug off cultural norms of the day, and honor a husband's God-given position.

Much of what parents teach is by example...could it be these kids are following Dad's example? Maybe here is evidence that it's Mom who is disrespected, unloved even, by Dad and not the other way around?

A husband is called to love his wife, not handle situations in whatever fashion she deems is appropriate. This man has chosen to make his decisions about what the children do. If it isn't the same choice that the mother would make, it doesn't mean that it is wrong. For example, if a mother is diligent in her home and teaches her children the ways of the Lord from the time they wake until they go to sleep, wouldn't it seem quite acceptable for a father to trust that his children are making wise decisions while he cannot directly watch over them?

Lastly, the only thing that I DID say that she should do is respect her husband. That does not hinge on how much he loves or respects her. All wives are called to respect their own husband. It is written very plainly in the Bible. That is her calling in this. If the husband were here to gather advise, many would advise him that he should love his wife and care for her in his decisions regarding their children. However, he is not. In the meantime though, it certainly doesn't serve anyone to insult a man who is not here to defend himself, or to make judgements about his relationship with God. He may very well be doing less than he could, in reguards to his children. Still, his decisions are his own to make. At some point, ladies are going to have to learn to accept things not going 'just the right way', and make the best of it, with a smile.

 

[elizabethevangeline]

Jenna, you make many good points in theory, but to your application to this situation is based on assumptions. I see no where in Music's posts that she is disrespecting her husband, insulting him, or correcting him in front of their children.

I do hear her asking for help in looking for another approach, not reproach.

I'm not suggesting you apologize, but pray like Music requested.

 

[Jenna]

Apparently, we see things from two very different angles. I don't believe that Music means to disrespect her husband. I do believe that is what is happening though, even if she isn't really aware of what she is saying and doing, and how it can affect the relationship. I understand that she is looking for another approach, and I believe that I have offered that. You (and possibly Music, herself) may not agree with me, but this is what I have to offer as far as the tangible. There are times when we believe that we are doing what honestly is right, and end up shooting ourselves in the foot. Music seems to be well-meaning. Maybe things are far different in their home than what we see here, but from what she has written, it does indeed sound as though she is holding herself over her husband as a type of judge and conscience.

----
Many times, when a woman changes the way that she treats her man, she can see dramatic changes in him. If a woman treats her husband as though his decisions are acceptable and good, and trusts his decisions, many men will step up to the plate and seek to match a wife's confident view of him. I've known many men who shrink away from women whom they feel overpowered by, or whom they feel that they can never truly please. My personal advice is to step out on a limb and treat him like he is already the greatest guy there is. After all, there is no time like the present. He's already part of your One Flesh. Put it in God's hands and work diligently to cultivate in your children, a real love for the Lord, so they don't stray. Gotta trust the guy sometime, dear.

 

[Music of the Spheres]

Well, let me see what I can say about all this.

I love my husband very much.

He makes no rules and sabotages the simple rules I do make.

The kids play the two of us against each other all the time.

Even so, we do not argue about discipline in front of the children. We hardly ever argue at all, about this or about anything else.

Our conversations are like this:

Me: Honey, Jr. is getting a little pudgy. Maybe he shouldn't eat so many Bacon Cheeseburgers. What do you think?

Husband: Yeah, you're right. No more Bacon Cheeseburgers for Junior!

Me: Thank you, honey.

Two hours later:

Junior: chomp chomp chomp

Me: What are you eating there, son?

Junior: A Bacon Cheeseburger!

Me: Where'd you get that?

Junior: Dad bought it for me!

(In private)

Me: Uh, honey, didn't we decided not to feed Junior Bacon Cheeseburgers?

Husband: He wanted a Bacon Cheeseburger! It's just food! What's the big deal?

Me: ?

----------

Extrapolate this little scenario to more serious matters, such as curfews and the like, and you can see that we have some real problems over here.

Now, the reason I posted my problem anonymously on a message board is because I do respect him. I thought I would ask a group of strangers for advice rather than badgering him endlessly because 1) it's not what a Christian wife should do and 2) it doesn't work anyway. Better I talk to a board full of strangers than whine to my neighbors, don't you agree? And some of you have given good advice. Thank you.

You can see I'm a little beat down here, yet some of you feel the need to beat me up a even more. Thanks a lot. I have been married to my husband for 30 years but you know his spiritual condition better than I do based on a few internet posts. I am in my fifties, by the way. How long have you been married, Jenna?

Wearily,
Music of the Spheres

 

[Jenna]

I am not beating on you, Music. Yes, I feel strongly against judging another person's relationship with God. In that, I admit to being very vehement. Also, I will venture to say that being wise enough to not chatter with the neighbors about your personal matters does not mean that a person is respectful in most or all other matters. We must just be cut of very different cloth. I see a husband as being created and put in his God-ordained position as the leader of a family. Regardless of whether he seems to be a strong leader or not, I believe that it is a biblically sound position to take that a wife should seek to please her husband, serve him, and obey him.

If you husband gives your son a burger, I'm not of the mind that it should be a big deal. Does dad buy the guy burgers for every meal? Can you prepare healtheir meals and snacks at other times so that the burgers become the treats that he receives? In this way, the burgers become something special that dad has done for him. The only way that I can possibly understand this causing a real weight issue was if dad was the only one responsible for what your son eats. Is that the situation??

I know that everything is not about burgers. My point is that we women can be mightily creative in working things out to get what we want, while not stepping on anyone's toes. Your husband may never change in the way that you want him to. Then what are you going to do? Are you resolved to remaining miserable because things aren't working out as you want them to? That would stink. The best you can do is to do your own job, fill your own role, and let God handle the rest. Your husband doesn't seem to be doing a whole lot to help you, but you do sound like a strong enough woman to keep your home suitably inspite of that. You don't have to be super-mom.

As far as how many years I have been married, I will leave you to guess about that. I have been very blessed to have many wonderful "Titus 2" women in my life to help me through both good and difficult times.

 

[Jenna]

Here, Music. I think that I've found something that states my case far better than I have been able to while here. Of course, the first portion of the letter (and it's specifics) don't fully apply, however, the remaining portion of the letter seems very beneficial.

Lest you think that I've just come in here to rain on your parade, I have been thinking and praying over your situation a great deal since you posted. I think the conversation would be easier to have if we were sitting down to a hot cup of tea, rather than simply typing at computers. If I don't inundate my posts with a gazillion smilies, my posts sound rather dry. It isn't my intention though. Anywho, here is that link that I wanted to share....

http://www.nogreaterjoy.org/index.php?id=25&backPID=23&begin_at=40&tt_news=8

 

[Music of the Spheres]

Hello, Jenna, thank you for the article.

I think I will withdraw from this discussion now.

Thanks for everyone who offered advice, even if I didn't sound like I accepted it very well.

-Music

 

[Princessperky]

sorry started typing before the withdrawal