Part hominid?

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

If Evolution is true, what sort of being would a deity born of a virgin be?

Though I decided recently to stop all Bible-speak, after getting into to trouble on Answers In Genesis (now closed) -- which I explained on my most recent post: HUMAN EVOLUTION ONLY, the following response on Lines of Evidence fired me up for a very different reason:

So, you claim to be a follower of Christ who was God who came as a distant cousin of a chimp? I don't think that is biblical or biological with regards to chromosomes and DNA.

Now before I get the usual challenges to prove Jesus existed, you will notice I have not used the Lord's name in my title or question.

What I am focussing on is this:

Such a being would have divine origin, but that's only half of it.
As a young evolutionist, I am more interested in how evolution might have impact on such a beings humanity.
He/she would be part (I did not say 100% or 50%) hominid and part deity -- I am okay with that, but it seems to mean that would mean the complete rewriting of both myths. ( Creation & Evolution)

 

[ViaCrucis]

Roman Catholic, Protestant, and Eastern Orthodox Christians all subscribe to the Definition of Chalcedon, which reads thus:

"Following, then, the holy Fathers, we all unanimously teach that our Lord Jesus Christ is to us One and the same Son, the Self-same Perfect in Godhead, the Self-same Perfect in Manhood; truly God and truly Man; the Self-same of a rational soul and body; co-essential with the Father according to the Godhead, the Self-same co-essential with us according to the Manhood; like us in all things, sin apart; before the ages begotten of the Father as to the Godhead, but in the last days, the Self-same, for us and for our salvation (born) of Mary the Virgin Theotokos as to the Manhood; One and the Same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten; acknowledged in Two Natures unconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; the difference of the Natures being in no way removed because of the Union, but rather the properties of each Nature being preserved, and (both) concurring into One Person and One Hypostasis; not as though He were parted or divided into Two Persons, but One and the Self-same Son and Only-begotten God, Word, Lord, Jesus Christ; even as from the beginning the prophets have taught concerning Him, and as the Lord Jesus Christ Himself hath taught us, and as the Symbol of the Fathers hath handed down to us."

So when orthodox Christians say "Jesus is human" we mean that everything that involves being human is true of Jesus. This confession here is explicit, "like us in all things, sin apart"; the only thing that makes Jesus different than the rest of us is that Jesus never sinned, never failed to abide perfectly and righteously in accordance with God's commandments. But in every other way He is exactly like you, me, and every other person who has ever lived.

Which means that Jesus, being human, is the evolutionary descendent of the same common ancestor that all humans have, and the shared common ancestor we have with chimpanzees, the rest of the great apes, and so on. Jesus, being human, was a primate like the rest of us; an erect bipedal ape like you and me.

That He is, according to Christian teaching, also God doesn't change this. His divinity and His humanity are not "mingled" or "confused", they are distinct (but inseparable) realities of who Jesus is. A better understanding of the Chalcedonian formula here, for any who might be interested, is to look at the history of the Nestorian and Monophysite controversies of the 5th century, these are the historical backdrop for Definition of Chalcedon.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[SLP]

If Evolution is true, what sort of being would a deity born of a virgin be?

A deity.

Was that a trick question?

 

[selfinflikted]

This is a nonsensical question, at least to me. Evolution wouldn't have any impact on a person born of a virgin, because people aren't born of virgins. If it happened, it would be a miracle, and evolution need not apply at all.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

This is a nonsensical question, at least to me. Evolution wouldn't have any impact on a person born of a virgin, because people aren't born of virgins. If it happened, it would be a miracle, and evolution need not apply at all.

I think it would. Unless the child was fathered by another deity, as in some sort of funky Nephilim way (or LDS or JW way) -- the birth was all natural but for the fact that pregnancy was caused rather than as a result of being impregnated -- so the child was a bona fide hominid, but an entirely new Species.
The life then had all the experience we had, but no superman. Any miracles did not just happen, like the myths of blowing on dead birds -- it would be given the same way it is given to anyone who obeys every jot and title of the perfect Law of the Lord.
Put it in another way, if he had deity DNA he would have been a freak!

 

[selfinflikted]

I think it would. Unless the child was fathered by another deity, as in some sort of funky Nephilim way (or LDS or JW way) -- the birth was all natural but for the fact that pregnancy was caused rather than as a result of being impregnated -- so the child was a bona fide hominid, but an entirely new Species.

If the child was poofed into Mary's womb, then I don't see how evolution could apply. You do understand that evolution requires, at least from a species that reproduces sexually, two sets of gametes that contain half of the genetic information from each parent, right?

The life then had all the experience we had, but no superman.

This has nothing to do with evolution at all.

Any miracles did not just happen, like the myths of blowing on dead birds -- it would be given the same way it is given to anyone who obeys every jot and title of the perfect Law of the Lord.
Put it in another way, if he had deity DNA he would have been a freak!

If the story were true (and, it's not), Jesus would only have half the genetic information needed. Where did the other half of the genetic information come from, if Mary only contributes half?

 

[AirPo]

If Evolution is true, what sort of being would a deity born of a virgin be?

Imaginary. Regardless of whether evolution is true or not might add.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

Imaginary. Regardless of whether evolution is true or not might add.

Duh, this is a hypothetical question. Imagination is important, Einstein used it all the time.

 

[AirPo]

Duh, this is a hypothetical question. Imagination is important, Einstein used it all the time.

Well then I imagine it would be a deity, as no biological reproduction would be involved. The virgin would be nothing more than a holding chamber. Regardless of whether evolution is true or not I might add.

 

[Strathos]

This is straying into Gottservant territory I think...

 

[selfinflikted]

This is straying into Gottservant territory I think...

/thread

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

Well then I imagine it would be a deity, as no biological reproduction would be involved. The virgin would be nothing more than a holding chamber. Regardless of whether evolution is true or not I might add.

Not at all, that implies incubation and there were no golden copulation from a father-deity, for the person is human : flesh, blood and bone and had to grow and mature and only experience the change after dying. Deities as a rule do not die, but this one lived and died.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

/thread

Easy now with the negative stick in the mud stuff mate!

 

[selfinflikted]

Easy now with the negative stick in the mud stuff mate!

Joking! Just joking

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

Joking! Just joking

I shall not close this thread because though there are those who would want to shut it, it addresses a matter both cynic, skeptic and robust atheist -- even the heretic and apostate want to have an opinion about this man who is apparently now the highest good of all.
It is too infectious to dismiss and sleep well at night, for without our lives end in ashes with nothing beyond that.
I summon Pascal.

 

[selfinflikted]

Summon a response to some of the On-Topic posts in here

 

[AirPo]

Not at all, that implies incubation and there were no golden copulation from a father-deity, for the person is human : flesh, blood and bone and had to grow and mature and only experience the change after dying. Deities as a rule do not die, but this one lived and died.

Who says deities don't incubate? Like I said, no biological reproduction. Which person is human? The deity violated it's own rule? I guess that's not unreasonable.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

Summon a response to some of the On-Topic posts in here

I think Pascal without a wave err mate, is a perfect harmony and fitting end to this thread:

What man ever had more renown? The whole Jewish people foretell Him before His coming. The Gentile people worship Him after His coming. The two peoples, Gentile and Jewish, regard Him as their centre.

And yet what man enjoys this renown less? Of thirty-three years, He lives thirty without appearing. For three years He passes as an impostor; the priests and the chief people reject Him; His friends and His nearest relatives despise Him. Finally, He dies, betrayed by one of His own disciples, denied by another, and abandoned by all.

What part, then, has He in this renown? Never had man so much renown; never had man more ignominy. All that renown has served only for us, to render us capable of recognising Him; and He had none of it for Himself.

[Pascal Thoughts, 791-2

 

[bhsmte]

Well then I imagine it would be a deity, as no biological reproduction would be involved. The virgin would be nothing more than a holding chamber. Regardless of whether evolution is true or not I might add.

Why even use the virgin, why not just "poof" the baby into existence?

Kinda sounds like a made up story to me.

 

[lewiscalledhimmaster]

Who says deities don't incubate? Like I said, no biological reproduction. Which person is human? The deity violated it's own rule? I guess that's not unreasonable.

It is quite possible that such a being might have been the last Adam, who became the progenitor of the final stage in human evolution.