Parental notification defeated

[Ginny]

The true irony lies within being able to use the word inconvenient much easier that con-venient.

Is it convenient to abort a child so that you can establish your career/ education...or is it inconvenient that you got pregnant while in the middle of a career/ education?

Is it convenient to abort a child so that you don't add any more to the ones you already have....or is it inconvenient that you became pregnant while already having 4 kids?

Is it convenient to abort a child b/c your body is old enough to conceive as God allowed you to after a certain age.....or is it inconvenient that you are a mere sophomore in high school?

The word "convenient" seems to be rubbing some the wrong way b/c it makes it seem as if abortion was done out of necessity when other priorites are being put first before that of the life of a child...

The poster that stated that people view the word "convenient" differently has to be correct...because surely you would not call abortion a "necessity" if it were just for the sake of career, education, desire for no more kids, or b/c the partner does not want them...especially when there is always a choice.

So, uh....what do you call it when someone gets an abortion when they do not truly have to when there are other options if it is not simply b/c they are putting a future child at the bottom of the list of priorities? Perhaps just "choice"?

 

[CCGirl]

So, uh....what do you call it when someone gets an abortion when they do not truly have to when there are other options if it is not simply b/c they are putting a future child at the bottom of the list of priorities? Perhaps just "choice"?

Yes....choice, THEIR choice. No one else's CHOICE. It does not matter why, since this is a choice for the woman to make, and therefore to live with.

 

[Ginny]

Yes....choice, THEIR choice. No one else's CHOICE. It does not matter why, since this is a choice for the woman to make, and therefore to live with.

I figured I was right...so in that case it probably is easier to just imagine that clump of cells is just merely that.....

 

[Dislike]

I figured I was right...so in that case it probably is easier to just imagine that clump of cells is just merely that.....

'Cause, ya know, that's what it is.

 

[flicka]

So, uh....what do you call it when someone gets an abortion when they do not truly have to when there are other options if it is not simply b/c they are putting a future child at the bottom of the list of priorities? Perhaps just "choice"?

I call it "none of my business".

But if you can't do that and need to ease your own mind just consider it a difficult choice somone else had to make because they are not mentally/emotionally/physically able to do what their body is preparing to do. Assume they must be feeling things your can't possible imagine. Feel saddend that they are unable to see a future for themselves that includes a 9 month pregnancy, the physical process of child birth, and possibly the responsibility for another human being for the rest of their life. And realize that your own personal choices in life are the only ones you need concern yourself with.

 

[Ginny]

Feel saddend that they are unable to see a future for themselves that includes a 9 month pregnancy, the physical process of child birth, and possibly the responsibility for another human being for the rest of their life. And realize that your own personal choices in life are the only ones you need concern yourself with.

Flicka, thank you (honestly) for a sincere post.

Many Christians take joy in the fact that they (the babies) are now with their maker in Heaven...and you can't get a better Daddy than Jesus.

I'll tell you what is hard..... seeing pictures of aborted babies and wondering how it was ever passed. The pics make it unreal.

 

[loriersea]

Again, I DON"T know what the punishment should be. If it were up to me, I would want the church to handle the situation (that does not mean punish them) for such a sensitive issue.

But would you say the same thing for child-murderers? My guess is no; you would not feel that child murder is a situation for churches to deal with.

I just think that when people say "abortion is murder," they really need to think about what they are saying. What that means is that women who have abortions are morally equivalent to someone who paid a person money to murder their 3-year-old child. We certainly wouldn't say that a person who did that should not be punished. If abortion was murder, it would be equivalent to that.

 

[Yusuf Evans]

But, I'm not sure parents could be trusted to make a decision in the best interest of their child (as opposed to in the interest of their own ideology) on this issue.

I just wanted to stop you right there with that statement.

1) You don't know all parents, ok. I have three kids now, 2 boys and 1 girl. I'm going to be a great mentor to them as they grow up, and I will make sure that they can come to me for anything.

2) If my daughter was going to have an abortion, or was still undecided to have one, I would hope she would come to me first. Look, while I do not like the idea of an abortion, I would like to discuss with her other options. If she still wants to go through with it, I will make sure she recieves the best care possible. What I will not support, is the government dictating what my kids can and cannot tell me.

 

[Helo]

1) You don't know all parents, ok. I have three kids now, 2 boys and 1 girl. I'm going to be a great mentor to them as they grow up, and I will make sure that they can come to me for anything.

I dont think theres ANYONE disagreeing with that, its just that there are parents out there that...arent as dedicated as you.

2) If my daughter was going to have an abortion, or was still undecided to have one, I would hope she would come to me first. Look, while I do not like the idea of an abortion, I would like to discuss with her other options. If she still wants to go through with it, I will make sure she recieves the best care possible. What I will not support, is the government dictating what my kids can and cannot tell me.

The law says that medical personell are not required to notify the person's parent if they are under-age and having an abortion, not that the staff CANT, its that they are not REQUIRED to

 

[Texas Lynn]

abortion is what it is.... you can't sugarcoat it in an attempt to make someone feel better about it when priorites over rule keeping a child in situations as the higher statistics reported...how denigrating is that for a child of God?

There should not be stigma against a woman having an abortion. Other people need to mind their own business.

 

[Texas Lynn]

The "convenience" charge appears to be a callous one because every woman I've known who had an abortion lives with either so much confusion and guilt, or some have made peace with their decision...they would NOT say it was done out of "convenience."

This is a very good post and I thank you for it.

It appears to touch on what is actually going on politically regarding this issue. The religious right makes noises suggesting they are compassionate for fetii but their real passion is to control women. Otherwise they would not have aligned themselves with politicians devoted it making it harder for people lacking resources. Otherwise they would support birth control, morning after pills, something, to benefit women who carry pregnancies to term under adverse circumstances. But NOOOOOOOOOO!! They seek to impose their judgementalism by government fiat.

 

[Texas Lynn]

I'll tell you what is hard..... seeing pictures of aborted babies and wondering how it was ever passed. The pics make it unreal.

But one never hears any compassion about things like this from the religious right:

Illegal abortions are a major cause of death among mothers in many countries in Latin America, an international conference on the subject has been told.

Every year four million women in Latin America have an illegal abortion, according to the World Health Organisation.

Complete story at http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3194680.stm

Instead we find the victims catigated by the judgementalists for acting out of "convenience".

 

[ClaireZ]

I just wanted to stop you right there with that statement.

1) You don't know all parents, ok. I have three kids now, 2 boys and 1 girl. I'm going to be a great mentor to them as they grow up, and I will make sure that they can come to me for anything.

2) If my daughter was going to have an abortion, or was still undecided to have one, I would hope she would come to me first. Look, while I do not like the idea of an abortion, I would like to discuss with her other options. If she still wants to go through with it, I will make sure she recieves the best care possible. What I will not support, is the government dictating what my kids can and cannot tell me.

Good Post. I am glad you would support your daughter or even your sons when it came to thier decision. Many boys suffer torment of the soul also when thier partner has to decide on what to do about an unplanned pregnancy.

The law does not require that your child not tell you. One would hope that this law wouldn't be necessary and that every child would be able to go to thier parents and recieve counsel in this difficult situation, and indeed with all situations in thier lives. The problem is that they can't. Many parents are abusive either physically or mentally, and many would not allow thier child the freedom to make thier own choice.

This law protects these children from far worse scenerios than a legal, safe abortion. They keep a child from being forced to bear a child they don't feel physically, mentally or emotionally able to care for. Lots of people just don't understand the desperation of some of the children and young women in this situation, and what they would do to get out of it.

 

[Electric Sceptic]

1) You don't know all parents, ok. I have three kids now, 2 boys and 1 girl. I'm going to be a great mentor to them as they grow up, and I will make sure that they can come to me for anything.

I sincerely hope that you are correct, and with an attitude like that, you're well on the way to being exactly that. Good for you.

2) If my daughter was going to have an abortion, or was still undecided to have one, I would hope she would come to me first. Look, while I do not like the idea of an abortion, I would like to discuss with her other options. If she still wants to go through with it, I will make sure she recieves the best care possible. What I will not support, is the government dictating what my kids can and cannot tell me.

Good, since the government has not at any stage tried to dictate what they can and cannot tell you. It has dictated things that they can do without you knowing. That says nothing at all about what they can and cannot tell you.

 

[k]

This is a very good post and I thank you for it.

It appears to touch on what is actually going on politically regarding this issue. The religious right makes noises suggesting they are compassionate for fetii but their real passion is to control women. Otherwise they would not have aligned themselves with politicians devoted it making it harder for people lacking resources. Otherwise they would support birth control, morning after pills, something, to benefit women who carry pregnancies to term under adverse circumstances. But NOOOOOOOOOO!! They seek to impose their judgementalism by government fiat.

Thank you.

I agree w/ much of this and while I will not say ALL Republicans share the same traits it is extremely difficult to ignore ostensible policy patterns...the most obvious is the same party that wants to outlaw abortions is also the same party that most opposes social programs...

 

[ChristianCenturion]

A busy election day in California. Voters also defeated a proposed amendment to the state constitution requiring parental notification before a minor could undergo an abortion. (Registration needed.)

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/11/09/california_abortion_notification_measure_fails_along_with_schwarzeneggers_four_ballot_initiatives_fail/


I admit to mixed feelings about this. I strongly believe parents should be involved their children's health care, and that communication within families is a good thing. But there are an awful lot of bad, abusive parents out there. And you have to be dreaming if you think you can achieve good family dynamics by passing a law.

I actually think a more common scenario is that families pressure their pregnant daughters to have abortions against their will. I wonder if any reliable data on this exists.

I'm sure that this proposal in some fashion will be made again; albeit, with a slight modification in the wording. The premise that the State knows better than any given parent(s) and supersedes some of the parental rights is too vulgar and too wide of a brush not to be challenged. Additionally, making a condition where evidence of a felony can be destroyed without parental notification and/or government facilitating such is also not in the State's best interest:

Statutory Rape Prosecution Unit

What is Statutory Rape?
Statutory Rape is unlawful sexual intercourse with someone under the age of 18.
What is Vertical Prosecution?
Studies show that when it comes to crimes of a personal and sexual nature one attorney handling all aspects of the case, from charging through sentencing, increases effectiveness in understanding the dynamics of each particular case and the needs of each victim.

ARE WE PROSECUTING EVERY CASE?

No. We are evaluating each case independently to determine if criminal charges are appropriate.

WHY SO MUCH ATTENTION TO STATUTORY RAPE?

California has the highest teen birth rate in the U.S.

3 of 4 births to high school girls are fathered by adults.

Men over 25 account for twice as many teen births as boys under 18 years old.

Men over 20 are responsible for 5 times as many births among junior high school girls than males under 20.

On an average California day 76 teenage girls, 17 & younger, will give birth.

In 1993 1,572 births in California were to mothers 14 years or younger.

The rate of sexually transmitted disease among teenage girls is twice that of teenage boys.

This all translates into a tremendous drain in our welfare and medical resources statewide.

AFDC and Medi-Cal costs for 1 teen pregnancy, birth and first year support is $10,000.

Total costs for teen births to those 17 and younger in 1993 for California were $140 million.

 

[ClaireZ]

1993??

Isn't this data pretty old?

 

[ChristianCenturion]

1993??

Isn't this data pretty old?

Yes, that particular statistic would seem to be a bit outdated to me, but I wouldn't know where to dig up an accurate and newer statistic to supplement that site's reference; however and personally, the cost to the public reference would be insignificant to the issue IMO.