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Paradigm Shift: Holistic Darwinism VS the Selfish Gene

Larniavc

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It all comes down to the battle between theistic and atheistic evolution.
This is where you go wrong. You assume this is a battle.

It’s not. It was a battle; but it’s been over for over 100. It’s only a few specific religious sects who think otherwise.
 
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joshua 1 9

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This is where you go wrong. You assume this is a battle.

It’s not. It was a battle; but it’s been over for over 100. It’s only a few specific religious sects who think otherwise.
Actually I already answered this in post number 19. You have theists and you have anti theists evolutionists. BOTH prove there is a God. As Cahn points out in his book the Nemesis is a part of the paradigm. I think the problem is people do not understand what is real and what is a counterfeit forgery copy. Sometimes in the world the nemesis becomes the hero and people cheer them on.
 
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Larniavc

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Actually I already answered this in post number 19. You have theists and you have anti theists evolutionists. BOTH prove there is a God. As Cahn points out in his book the Nemesis is a part of the paradigm. I think the problem is people do not understand what is real and what is a counterfeit forgery copy. Sometimes in the world the nemesis becomes the hero and people cheer them on.
Um, okay?
 
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joshua 1 9

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This is where you go wrong. You assume this is a battle.

It’s not. It was a battle; but it’s been over for over 100. It’s only a few specific religious sects who think otherwise.
I do not even know of any religious sects that do not believe in evolution. The question is what theory of evolution they believe in. It is pretty much the soup of the day or the flavor of the week. If you do not like the theory today come back tomorrow because it will be a new theory.

To stick to the theme of the thread the discussion has to do with a new Paradigm regarding evolutionary theory and symphy or symbiomes (symbiosis). Here is an article that talks about this new paradigm.

SYMPHY: Researchers Propose New ‘Tree of Life’ Framework that Incorporates Symbiomes | Biology | Sci-News.com

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/06/170607123823.htm

http://www.cell.com/trends/ecology-...m/retrieve/pii/S0169534717301258?showall=true
 
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joshua 1 9

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I could find little evidence that his ideas have any traction within biology.
"We call on the National Science Foundation of the USA and the National Natural Science Foundation of China, as well as other funding agencies, to support a working group composed of diverse researchers tasked with proposing a structure and plan for the implementations of this new system."

Reshaping Darwin’s Tree: Impact of the Symbiome (PDF Download Available). Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/317495996_Reshaping_Darwin's_Tree_Impact_of_the_Symbiome [accessed Nov 13 2017].

SYMPHY: Researchers Propose New ‘Tree of Life’ Framework that Incorporates Symbiomes | Biology | Sci-News.com

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/06/170607123823.htm

http://www.cell.com/trends/ecology-...m/retrieve/pii/S0169534717301258?showall=true

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/317495996_Reshaping_Darwin's_Tree_Impact_of_the_Symbiome
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Actually I already answered this in post number 19. You have theists and you have anti theists evolutionists. BOTH prove there is a God. As Cahn points out in his book the Nemesis is a part of the paradigm. I think the problem is people do not understand what is real and what is a counterfeit forgery copy. Sometimes in the world the nemesis becomes the hero and people cheer them on.

... how can anti-theists prove there is a God?
 
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joshua 1 9

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... how can anti-theists prove there is a God?
The anti-theists establish the control group. By their own admission they live a life that God is NOT a part of. Then we can look and see the difference in the lives of the people that are theists. In my case my father was a doctor and he used a lot of the power of suggestion and the power of positive thinking. It is difficult to go beyond that but it is possible. For example I had a situation in my life where my chance of resuscitation was only one in 1200. That is the sort of odds you expect from a miracle, not the power of suggestion or the power of positive thinking.

"One survey suggested that 73 percent of U.S. physicians believe in miracles, and 55 percent claim to have personally witnessed treatment results they consider miraculous. Even more striking than the number of people who believe in miracles is the number who claim to have witnessed or experienced them." Are Miracles Real? | HuffPost
 
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tas8831

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Yet Moses gave us the Bible over 3500 years ago and has remained unchanged in all that time. (1571 bce)

Well, except for the hundred or more versions. And despite evidence that shows many bible tales have no merit, but sure, think what you want.

Like how anti-abiogenesis calculations must be accurate because you were told that they are easy to set up.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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The anti-theists establish the control group. By their own admission they live a life that God is NOT a part of. Then we can look and see the difference in the lives of the people that are theists. In my case my father was a doctor and he used a lot of the power of suggestion and the power of positive thinking. It is difficult to go beyond that but it is possible. For example I had a situation in my life where my chance of resuscitation was only one in 1200. That is the sort of odds you expect from a miracle, not the power of suggestion or the power of positive thinking.

"One survey suggested that 73 percent of U.S. physicians believe in miracles, and 55 percent claim to have personally witnessed treatment results they consider miraculous. Even more striking than the number of people who believe in miracles is the number who claim to have witnessed or experienced them." Are Miracles Real? | HuffPost

That's still not proving that anti-theists prove that God exists. How can claiming to live a life without God be prove for God?
 
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joshua 1 9

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That's still not proving that anti-theists prove that God exists.
True showing miracles does not prove God. There could be other explanations. For example people use the spontaneous remission theory. Or they will just say the body healed itself and deny that a miracle was needed. The main thing is that we are getting results that non believers do not receive. Theists have answers and solutions that anti theists do not have available to them. Still that does not prove there is a God. The miracles, cures, healing, answers and solutions could have perhaps come from an unknown, unexplained natural source.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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True showing miracles does not prove God. There could be other explanations. For example people use the spontaneous remission theory. Or they will just say the body healed itself and deny that a miracle was needed. The main thing is that we are getting results that non believers do not receive. Theists have answers and solutions that anti theists do not have available to them. Still that does not prove there is a God. The miracles, cures, healing, answers and solutions could have perhaps come from an unknown, unexplained natural source.

Again, that's still not proving that anti-theists prove that God exists. You have not given any evidence that anti-theists are able to prove that God exists yet you keep making that claim.
 
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joshua 1 9

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Again, that's still not proving that anti-theists prove that God exists.
I am not trying to prove that God exists to you. I am explaining what an anti-theist is. Which really is not my job. It is up to you do to a google search if you do not understand the definition or meaning of a word. Perhaps it would help if you knew that: "Atheism is the absence of belief in gods; anti-theism is a conscious and deliberate opposition to theism". The problem is people are always accused of a straw man argument. True anti-theism has to define something that they are against. This is why people like Francis Collins was so influenced by people like Sinclair Lewis. There are two approaches to religion. There is the wedding and the funeral. You can seek to prove the Bible is true. Or you can seek to prove the Bible is not true. Either way people will prove the Bible because the Bible can not be falsified. So theism and anti theism arrive at the same conclusion and the same results.
 
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VirOptimus

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I am not trying to prove that God exists to you. I am explaining what an anti-theist is. Which really is not my job. It is up to you do to a google search if you do not understand the definition or meaning of a word. Perhaps it would help if you knew that: "Atheism is the absence of belief in gods; anti-theism is a conscious and deliberate opposition to theism". The problem is people are always accused of a straw man argument. True anti-theism has to define something that they are against. This is why people like Francis Collins was so influenced by people like Sinclair Lewis. There are two approaches to religion. There is the wedding and the funeral. You can seek to prove the Bible is true. Or you can seek to prove the Bible is not true. Either way people will prove the Bible because the Bible can not be falsified. So theism and anti theism arrive at the same conclusion and the same results.

Wordsalad.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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I am not trying to prove that God exists to you. I am explaining what an anti-theist is. Which really is not my job. It is up to you do to a google search if you do not understand the definition or meaning of a word. Perhaps it would help if you knew that: "Atheism is the absence of belief in gods; anti-theism is a conscious and deliberate opposition to theism". The problem is people are always accused of a straw man argument. True anti-theism has to define something that they are against. This is why people like Francis Collins was so influenced by people like Sinclair Lewis. There are two approaches to religion. There is the wedding and the funeral. You can seek to prove the Bible is true. Or you can seek to prove the Bible is not true. Either way people will prove the Bible because the Bible can not be falsified. So theism and anti theism arrive at the same conclusion and the same results.

That says nothing about how anti-theists prove that God exists. In fact, all it does is reinforce the mentality you have: "Heads I win, tails you lose."
 
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joshua 1 9

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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Sorry I was not able to explain that for you in a way you were able to understand.

No, you just didn't explain anything. You wrote a lot of words, but in the end, all you did was go back to your old canard of your "Heads I win, tails you lose" belief in the authenticity of the Bible.
 
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joshua 1 9

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No, you just didn't explain anything.
I took four teacher training classes at the Bible college. I am doing the best I can to teach, now it is your responsibility to learn. Truth can not be taught, people have to discover truth for themselves. This is not like secular school where you just memorize a lot of worthless information. People are so inundated with fake news, fake science and fake history that they are not able to identify the truth when they see it.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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I took four teacher training classes at the Bible college. I am doing the best I can to teach, now it is your responsibility to learn. Truth can not be taught, people have to discover truth for themselves. This is not like secular school where you just memorize a lot of worthless information. People are so inundated with fake news, fake science and fake history that they are not able to identify the truth when they see it.

But you are not saying how anti-theists prove that God exists! You are not doing any of that. All you are doing is saying that they do... and then just leave it!
 
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joshua 1 9

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But you are not saying how anti-theists prove that God exists!
Then we must have a mexican standoff because you fail to prove that antitheism shows that God does not exist. Like I said this is the whole premise of authors like Sinclair Lewis. Anti theists end up as theists because in their attempt to prove that God does not exist they end up coming to a saving knowledge of the truth and they realize that God does exist. Read the testimony of people like Francis Collins and how he became a christian. Often intellectuals become saved through their anti theistic efforts to try to prove that there is no God and that He does not exist. This is why Malachi 3:10b says: "prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts". People have the burden to prove or disprove. If you want me to prove something then you have the burden to disprove it.
 
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