- Dec 10, 2003
- 23,896
- 9,877
- Country
- Australia
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
Upvote
0
-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
-
CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Parables thread
- Thread starter Radagast
- Start date
- Status
- Dec 10, 2003
- 23,896
- 9,877
- Country
- Australia
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
We seem to have exhausted that parable, so why don't we look at the famous "Wise and Foolish Virgins" next?
Matthew 25:1-13 says:
"Then the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom. 2 Five of them were foolish, and five were wise. 3 For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, 4 but the wise took flasks of oil with their lamps. 5 As the bridegroom was delayed, they all became drowsy and slept. 6 But at midnight there was a cry, ‘Here is the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.’ 7 Then all those virgins rose and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ 9 But the wise answered, saying, ‘Since there will not be enough for us and for you, go rather to the dealers and buy for yourselves.’ 10 And while they were going to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast, and the door was shut. 11 Afterwards the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, lord, open to us.’ 12 But he answered, ‘Truly, I say to you, I do not know you.’ 13 Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour." (ESV)
This parable follows immediately after the "Faithful Servant" parable which we have just looked at, and is clearly closely related to it. Before we get to the meaning, however, there are a number of debatable points about the story:
1. Who were these 10 young women? What was their relationship to the bridegroom? (Greek parthenoi, G3933)
2. What task were they waiting to perform? Where were they waiting?
3. What were the "lamps"? (Greek lampadas, G2985, ESV footnote "or torches")
4. Did the foolish virgins succeed in buying oil? (Greek mesos nuktos, G3319, G3571 -- ESV: "at midnight", HCSB: "in the middle of the night")
5. Was it wrong for the virgins to sleep?
6. Was it wrong for the wise virgins not to share? (the Greek has an emphatic negative in verse 9 -- ESV: "Since there will not be enough for us and for you", HCSB: "No, there won’t be enough for us and for you")
7. Why were the foolish virgins rejected?
Matthew 25:1-13 says:
"Then the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom. 2 Five of them were foolish, and five were wise. 3 For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, 4 but the wise took flasks of oil with their lamps. 5 As the bridegroom was delayed, they all became drowsy and slept. 6 But at midnight there was a cry, ‘Here is the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.’ 7 Then all those virgins rose and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ 9 But the wise answered, saying, ‘Since there will not be enough for us and for you, go rather to the dealers and buy for yourselves.’ 10 And while they were going to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast, and the door was shut. 11 Afterwards the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, lord, open to us.’ 12 But he answered, ‘Truly, I say to you, I do not know you.’ 13 Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour." (ESV)
This parable follows immediately after the "Faithful Servant" parable which we have just looked at, and is clearly closely related to it. Before we get to the meaning, however, there are a number of debatable points about the story:
1. Who were these 10 young women? What was their relationship to the bridegroom? (Greek parthenoi, G3933)
2. What task were they waiting to perform? Where were they waiting?
3. What were the "lamps"? (Greek lampadas, G2985, ESV footnote "or torches")
4. Did the foolish virgins succeed in buying oil? (Greek mesos nuktos, G3319, G3571 -- ESV: "at midnight", HCSB: "in the middle of the night")
5. Was it wrong for the virgins to sleep?
6. Was it wrong for the wise virgins not to share? (the Greek has an emphatic negative in verse 9 -- ESV: "Since there will not be enough for us and for you", HCSB: "No, there won’t be enough for us and for you")
7. Why were the foolish virgins rejected?
Upvote
0
We seem to have exhausted that parable, so why don't we look at the famous "Wise and Foolish Virgins" next?
Matthew 25:1-13 says:
"Then the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom. 2 Five of them were foolish, and five were wise. 3 For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, 4 but the wise took flasks of oil with their lamps. 5 As the bridegroom was delayed, they all became drowsy and slept. 6 But at midnight there was a cry, Here is the bridegroom! Come out to meet him. 7 Then all those virgins rose and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said to the wise, Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out. 9 But the wise answered, saying, Since there will not be enough for us and for you, go rather to the dealers and buy for yourselves. 10 And while they were going to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast, and the door was shut. 11 Afterwards the other virgins came also, saying, Lord, lord, open to us. 12 But he answered, Truly, I say to you, I do not know you. 13 Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour." (ESV)
This parable follows immediately after the "Faithful Servant" parable which we have just looked at, and is clearly closely related to it. Before we get to the meaning, however, there are a number of debatable points about the story:
1. Who were these 10 young women? What was their relationship to the bridegroom? (Greek parthenoi, G3933)
2. What task were they waiting to perform? Where were they waiting?
3. What were the "lamps"? (Greek lampadas, G2985, ESV footnote "or torches")
4. Did the foolish virgins succeed in buying oil? (Greek mesos nuktos, G3319, G3571 -- ESV: "at midnight", HCSB: "in the middle of the night")
5. Was it wrong for the virgins to sleep?
6. Was it wrong for the wise virgins not to share? (the Greek has an emphatic negative in verse 9 -- ESV: "Since there will not be enough for us and for you", HCSB: "No, there wont be enough for us and for you")
7. Why were the foolish virgins rejected?
Jesus is telling us to plan ahead in case He does not return when you expect it.
He tells us to be watchful and be prepared for His coming at any time.
Staying spiritually alert and ready will be the key to entering the Kingdom of God.
jw
Upvote
0
- Dec 10, 2003
- 23,896
- 9,877
- Country
- Australia
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
Upvote
0
The 10 virgins were the followers of Christ-the church-the bride of Christ.
Christ was the bridegroom.
God's word is a lamp to light the way.
The oil is the symbol of God's spirit.
Don't wait until it's too late.
The time for oil was before the bridegroom was on His way.
don't be left out in the dark.
Upvote
0
- Dec 10, 2003
- 23,896
- 9,877
- Country
- Australia
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
I was hoping we could discuss those 7 questions about the story, before we get to the interpretation. One can't interpret the parable before one is clear on the story.
And it's easy to say things like "the oil is the symbol of God's spirit," but we must not do that without a good justification.
Upvote
0
- Dec 10, 2003
- 23,896
- 9,877
- Country
- Australia
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
Some people think these 10 young women were bridesmaids (see the NLT and the HCSB footnote), but they do not seem to have any association with the bride (indeed the bride never gets mentioned at all).
The context (following the Faithful Servant parable) suggests that the 10 young women were employed by the bridegroom as household servants. This would make the message of this parable similar to that of the Faithful Servant parable: be prepared and do not disappoint the Master. The 10 young women would therefore represent the Church (since the bridegroom is clearly Christ).
Upvote
0
- Dec 10, 2003
- 23,896
- 9,877
- Country
- Australia
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
Looking at questions 2, 3, and 4:
The bridegroom was clearly making some kind of journey to the feasting-hall where the marriage-feast was to take place ("the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast, and the door was shut"). The ten virgins were clearly waiting somewhere near the start of that journey.
Why did they have lamps? There are a number of theories:
a) They were bringing lamps to light up the feast -- but if so, why wait for the bridegroom? Why not bring them straight to the feasting-hall?
b) They needed lamps while they were waiting (many illustrations, such as the one above, show this) -- but if so, five lamps would have been more than enough.
c) The lamps were actually torches (which is how the same Greek word is translated in John 18:3, and how the ESV footnote reads), and the young women were supposed to light the torches and carry them along with the bridegroom's procession. This seems to make the most sense -- it explains why 10 were needed (to light up the whole procession) and it explains why the young women had to wait for the bridegroom.
John MacArthur's commentary notes:
"Although the English 'lamps' is derived from lampas {G2985}, in New Testament times that Greek term was used primarily of torches, as it is translated in John 18:3, where it denotes the torches carried by the soldiers who arrested Jesus. Another word, luchnos {G3088}, was generally used for a lamp. The torches used by wedding attendants consisted of tightly wrapped cloths attached to long poles. In addition to lighting the way for the procession, the lamps, or torches, served to identify members of the wedding party, marking them off as special participants. It was therefore important that each of the bridesmaids have a torch."
Thus the young women (most likely young servant girls) had a job to do for their Master -- to light up the procession.
Five young women had prepared for this job: they had torches and oil.
Five young women had not prepared: they had torches but no oil (the parable is sometimes misquoted as "no extra oil," but it clearly says "when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them"). Therefore when the time came, they were unable to do what the Master required.
The parable doesn't say. It seems unlikely that any shops would have been open at midnight. But in any case it doesn't matter; the oil was needed for the procession, and the procession had come and gone. It was too late for the foolish virgins to carry out their task.
What does the oil symbolise? Presumably something needed for the work we need to do for our Master. Luther said it symbolised faith. John MacArthur says "A torch without fuel is obviously worthless, and a profession of faith in Jesus Christ without a saving relationship to Him is infinitely more worthless, because one is left in spiritual darkness."
The bridegroom was clearly making some kind of journey to the feasting-hall where the marriage-feast was to take place ("the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast, and the door was shut"). The ten virgins were clearly waiting somewhere near the start of that journey.
Why did they have lamps? There are a number of theories:
a) They were bringing lamps to light up the feast -- but if so, why wait for the bridegroom? Why not bring them straight to the feasting-hall?
b) They needed lamps while they were waiting (many illustrations, such as the one above, show this) -- but if so, five lamps would have been more than enough.
c) The lamps were actually torches (which is how the same Greek word is translated in John 18:3, and how the ESV footnote reads), and the young women were supposed to light the torches and carry them along with the bridegroom's procession. This seems to make the most sense -- it explains why 10 were needed (to light up the whole procession) and it explains why the young women had to wait for the bridegroom.
John MacArthur's commentary notes:
"Although the English 'lamps' is derived from lampas {G2985}, in New Testament times that Greek term was used primarily of torches, as it is translated in John 18:3, where it denotes the torches carried by the soldiers who arrested Jesus. Another word, luchnos {G3088}, was generally used for a lamp. The torches used by wedding attendants consisted of tightly wrapped cloths attached to long poles. In addition to lighting the way for the procession, the lamps, or torches, served to identify members of the wedding party, marking them off as special participants. It was therefore important that each of the bridesmaids have a torch."
Thus the young women (most likely young servant girls) had a job to do for their Master -- to light up the procession.
Five young women had prepared for this job: they had torches and oil.
Five young women had not prepared: they had torches but no oil (the parable is sometimes misquoted as "no extra oil," but it clearly says "when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them"). Therefore when the time came, they were unable to do what the Master required.
The parable doesn't say. It seems unlikely that any shops would have been open at midnight. But in any case it doesn't matter; the oil was needed for the procession, and the procession had come and gone. It was too late for the foolish virgins to carry out their task.
What does the oil symbolise? Presumably something needed for the work we need to do for our Master. Luther said it symbolised faith. John MacArthur says "A torch without fuel is obviously worthless, and a profession of faith in Jesus Christ without a saving relationship to Him is infinitely more worthless, because one is left in spiritual darkness."
Last edited:
Upvote
0
- Dec 10, 2003
- 23,896
- 9,877
- Country
- Australia
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
The remaining questions:
There is no criticism of sleeping here -- both the wise and foolish virgins do it. It seems (verse 6) that the bridegroom had arranged to wake them up when necessary. The issue here is one of preparation.
The language makes clear that sharing oil was not an option: 10 torches that flicker and go out halfway through the procession are worse than 5 torches that last the whole trip.
Symbolically, the oil is something that we each need for ourselves (if Luther is right, faith).
The foolish virgins were rejected because they did not carry out their assigned task -- they were not part of the bridegroom's procession. They though they could still be rewarded with entry to the wedding feast. They were wrong.
The rejection recalls part of an earlier parable (Matthew 22:11-13):
"But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment. And he said to him, 'Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?' And he was speechless. Then the king said to the attendants, 'Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'"
Having cleared up those questions about the story, what does the parable mean?
There is no criticism of sleeping here -- both the wise and foolish virgins do it. It seems (verse 6) that the bridegroom had arranged to wake them up when necessary. The issue here is one of preparation.
The language makes clear that sharing oil was not an option: 10 torches that flicker and go out halfway through the procession are worse than 5 torches that last the whole trip.
Symbolically, the oil is something that we each need for ourselves (if Luther is right, faith).
The foolish virgins were rejected because they did not carry out their assigned task -- they were not part of the bridegroom's procession. They though they could still be rewarded with entry to the wedding feast. They were wrong.
The rejection recalls part of an earlier parable (Matthew 22:11-13):
"But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment. And he said to him, 'Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?' And he was speechless. Then the king said to the attendants, 'Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'"
Having cleared up those questions about the story, what does the parable mean?
Last edited:
Upvote
0
The remaining questions:
There is no criticism of sleeping here -- both the wise and foolish virgins do it. It seems (verse 6) that the bridegroom had arranged to wake them up when necessary. The issue here is one of preparation.
The language makes clear that sharing oil was not an option: 10 torches that flicker and go out halfway through the procession are worse than 5 torches that last the whole trip.
Symbolically, the oil is something that we each need for ourselves (if Luther is right, faith).
The foolish virgins were rejected because they did not carry out their assigned task -- they were not part of the bridegroom's procession. They though they could still be rewarded with entry to the wedding feast. They were wrong.
The rejection recalls part of an earlier parable (Matthew 22:11-13):
"But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment. And he said to him, 'Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?' And he was speechless. Then the king said to the attendants, 'Bind him hand and foot and cast him into the outer darkness. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'"
Having cleared up those questions about the story, what does the parable mean?
Most parables are a warning about conditions that will exist at the end time-the time of Christ's return. A prophecy in sorts of what will happen to those that are not prepared.
There is no mention of a procession, the lamps were used to see their way in the darkness since they didn't have street lights like we do.
Luther was close but not close enough. Oil has always been symbolized by the Holy Spirit not just faith or belief.
1Sam 10:1-6, 16-13 - when David was chosen as King of Israel the anointing was done with oil and " God's Holy Spirit came upon them" afterwards.
So when Christ delayed His return the church slept.
The five foolish had lamps-the Bible-but no oil-God's HS to give them Spiritual understanding.
the 5 wise were prepared and went in with Him to the marriage-the Kingdom of God.
2 points really - be ready and you cannot share your preparedness which is a personal quality -you cannot get into God's Kingdom on somebody's else's oil.
Upvote
0
- Dec 10, 2003
- 23,896
- 9,877
- Country
- Australia
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
Have you got a better explanation?
There must have been several people travelling together for 10 torches to be needed. That makes a procession, in my book.
That is not true. The fact that anointing was done with oil does not mean that oil symbolises the Holy Spirit.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
- Dec 10, 2003
- 23,896
- 9,877
- Country
- Australia
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Single
Upvote
0
- Feb 9, 2014
- 24,622
- 10,635
- Country
- United Kingdom
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Private
Upvote
0
- Status