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It does.
I understand and am in agreement with what you've shared.
Thank you for your response.
God bless, brother.
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Sister, thank you for your question, It is a fair one. Let me explain. There is a huge difference between being sinless, a state WE achieve, and being kept from falling, which is the birthright of all of us who are His.
Have I sinned since I first received over five years ago. Yes. And it crushes me if I do. Why did I fall? One reason only. Doubt. How do we overcome? Faith. Why do we fall? Doubt. But the key here is this. IF I fall, I get up, repent in turning away from it to the giver of life, and hoist my shield of faith again as to who I am in Him. I am new for He has made me new.
Now satan immediately will swoop in like he always does in us after a fall, and begin accusing me, telling me how bad I am, etc. What does he get instead now? It is not I that lives, but Christ now lives in me, and He will keep me for He has made me a new creature. And praise God, the shield works.
As we continue in His word, and not let go of it, amazingly, the grip that sin had lessens, weakens and dies. Can we walk through all the arrows of the enemy and not fall? Absolutely. All of us can. it is our birthright and it is high time we believed it and took it back from the enemy of our souls.
I pray this helps.
Gideon
Many of us have probably heard it ...
The Parable of The Boiled Frog
If you place a frog in a pot of boiling water, it will immediately try to scramble out. But if you place the frog in room temperature water, and dont scare him, hell stay put.
Now, if the pot sits on a heat source, and if you gradually turn up the temperature, something very interesting happens. As the temperature rises, the frog will do nothing. In fact, he may show every sign of enjoying himself.
As the temperature gradually increases, the frog will become groggier and groggier, until he is unable to climb out of the pot. Though there is nothing restraining him, the frog will sit there and boil.
Why? Because the frogs internal apparatus for sensing threats to survival is geared to sudden changes in the environment, not to slow, gradual changes.
I think we can look at this parable and apply it to how we as Christians can become deceived.
I don't think many, if any, of us wake up one morning and make the decision to become deceived.
I don't think many of us as Christians decide one day to start fellowshipping in Hindu temples, or Muslim Mosques, or the like ... as they are not Christian in belief.
Nor do I think many of us Christians, after salvation, decide to join a street gang so as to live the wild life.
Lots of us choose after salvation to not even go into sinful places ... like brothels, porn shops, x-rated movies, drug houses, bars ... well, you get my drift!
Generally, as followers of Jesus we will want to go places, do things, fellowship, in ways that are conducive to growing in our faith. It's just a natural kind of supernatural thing that happens after conversion!
So no, I doubt many of us seek to be deceived.
But deception does happen.
Much like how this frog became deceived ... and someone's dinner!
Deception happens gradually, slowly.
We may begin watching and listening to tv preachers that don't quite preach the whole gospel truth.
Or we may begin reading Christian books that are full of more of the world's philosophies than the principles of God.
Or we may begin hanging with persons that aren't so stable in the faith.
Or we may begin reading too much worldly stuff and not enough Bible.
Or we may begin listening to too many loud voices in the world rather than choosing to listen to the gentle nudgings of the Holy Spirit.
Or we may begin hanging out too much online in forums with Christians that are not 'like-minded'.
Or ...
In this day of tremendous technology and opportunity, there are so many ways that we can become confused in our thinking ... and deceived.
And generally, the process happens very slowly.
When we arrive 'there', we don't know it.
That's the nature of deception!
We do have a Saving Christ Who can deliver us from deception.
But why allow deception to happen at all?
( ... I know I surely don't want to suddenly find myself one day being someone's dinner!!!)
We are told in the Word ...
"Above all else, guard your heart, for everything you do flows from it."
Proverbs 4:23
Good advice, sound advice, biblical advice ... from the Word of God ... because God does not want His people deceived and lead astray ...
It is devastating the point that people will go to to twist words. It makes me sad.
According to you, people who live in the grace of God
1. Love sin
2. Resist the Holy Spirit
3. Resist attempts to grow in Christ
4. Resist any need or desire to repent
5. Deceive others and lead them to eternal damnation in hell
Now that is how you insult another Christian so it hurts.You covered our entire faith in those few sentences. How do you stay here and conversate with us if you feel this way?
I see this "grace to continue in sin" argument a perfect illustration of the very deception you describe. Look at what is happening. You try to shine light on the importance of truth, which immediately fires up the deceived and deceiving who do what they do best and take offence to someone shining a light. They proceed to reveal how much they are walking in deception by misreading every post about truth and attacking the poster. The problem is that those most likely to be warned of deception are the ones least caught up in it. The deceived are unable to see themselves as deceived, which creates in interesting dilemma to me, and I need to go examine my own heart for deception now.
I love the verse that shows us that we know how to love because Jesus loved us first.
It is hard for us to understand or take in the overwhelming, unconditional love of Christ. I see many trying to put that love in human terms, defining it and figuring out who will be saved by the Lord and who will not.
I am a computer programmer/analyst by trade and to write any computer program that works you must be able to find any logic hole and fix it so the computer program you write does exactly what you want it to do 100% of the time, otherwise your logic is flawed.
Jesus loved us first. His love is the perfect love that we try to understand, but will never fully until the day when all truth becomes known to us. I see some, trying to define, making their case, writing their program of what is and what will be.
Those are the most deceived, those thinking they know what only the Lord will decide.
I am starting to see that because they don't really understand how much Jesus loved them first, they will never be able to understand the full extent of grace, because they don't think Jesus could ever love them quite that much.
They limit the love of Jesus to what ever the level of love is that they currently can comprehend and logically deal with. Jesus love level cannot be understood and dealt with with logic. It is spiritual.
Just like the pharisee's did in Jesus time, modern pharisee's make themselves known. They give themselves the glory in judgment and righteousness that was never theirs to give. Humble thyself before the Lord.
So, can we deceive ourselves?
The Bible says we can!
Let's look at it, as we continue our discussion on deception.
Here are some of the ways:
- Hearing God's Word but not doing what it says.
"But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves."
(James 1:22)
- Saying I have no sin.
"If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
(1 John 1:8)
- Thinking I am something that I'm really not.
"For if anyone thinks himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceives himself."
(Galatians 6:3)
- Thinking I am wise in this worldly age.
"Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He catches the wise in their own craftiness;"
(1 Cor. 3:18-19)
- Thinking I can be truly religious but not control what I say.
"If anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this ones religion is useless."
(James 1:26)
-Thinking that God is the source of my problems.
(Lamentations 3)
- Thinking I can live my life without the help of others.
"For in fact the body is not one member but many. If the foot should say, Because I am not a hand, I am not of the body, is it therefore not of the body? And if the ear should say, Because I am not an eye, I am not of the body, is it therefore not of the body? If the whole body were an eye, where would be the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where would be the smelling? But now God has set the members, each one of them, in the body just as He pleased. And if they were all one member, where would the body be? But now indeed there are many members, yet one body."
(1 Cor. 12:14-20)
I don't see anyone limiting the Lord's love or His mercy or His willingness to forgive He tells us to repent and believe and be cleansed from all unrighteousness . we still need to ask. We need to believe that He is a rewarder of those that seek Him.
In seeking Him, we are looking to Him for forgiveness. He is faithful to forgive us "IF" we are faithful to ask.
There is no measurement for the love of God it is boundless, no height or breath can old it or contain it. Only those that refuse Him and choose to go their own way are outside the gate of forgiveness.
Gideon often talks about how much grace the Lord has given and is willing to give yet people argue that there is no need to rely on God to overcome sin, just rely on grace that isn't what the Lord said.
It is a subtle deception but it is deception. Lean on Christ. Believe Him. He is faithful to forgive us when we ask.
So then ...
"Why are we talking about deception, anyway?"
Well ... I don't think those of us that have experienced spiritual deception will be asking ourselves that question,
but for those that haven't, two of the reasons we are focusing on deception is because:
- Spiritual deception can be painful, hurtful ... very costly to one's life, one's soul.
- When we are spiritually deceived, we can also become a spiritual danger to others.
(Now, who amongst us wants any of that?)
No you were the one who twisted words and refined what the previous poster said to fit your own paradigm. Classic diversionary tactics used to insult others by appearing to be offended it is at the very least insincere
You didn't understand the post
I don't see anyone limiting the Lord's love or His mercy or His willingness to forgive He tells us to repent and believe and be cleansed from all unrighteousness . we still need to ask. We need to believe that He is a rewarder of those that seek Him.
In seeking Him, we are looking to Him for forgiveness. He is faithful to forgive us "IF" we are faithful to ask.
There is no measurement for the love of God it is boundless, no height or breath can old it or contain it. Only those that refuse Him and choose to go their own way are outside the gate of forgiveness.
Gideon often talks about how much grace the Lord has given and is willing to give yet people argue that there is no need to rely on God to overcome sin, just rely on grace that isn't what the Lord said.
It is a subtle deception but it is deception. Lean on Christ. Believe Him. He is faithful to forgive us when we ask.
and here I thought we were so close to being on the same page. You grasp the great love Christ has for us both… His faithfulness to forgive us. Why would that make you then bring up the Pharisees? Who neither believed Jesus or understood the love of the Father?
We who talk about repentance have been there and may be again. We understand He is faithful and He is able to help us overcome. It was only in my brokenness that I found I had no strength of my own, I had to rely on Christ's faithfulness to forgive me where I was. Defeated, I became an overcomer. Simply bc I came to the realization I had nothing to offer Christ but my own gratitude for His faithfulness, nothing I could do would ever MAKE me good enough. The only goodness in me is Christ and that is enough bc He is enough. Because His great love is enough and that make me love Him all the more… and then something happened and the old me started to not be so important and the new me began to overcome the old carnal desires…. sin was no longer as attractive as forgiveness and the love of Christ. The old me died, the new me lives in Christ. That is the message of grace. It is for all of us who believe. Some may never get to the point that they overcome, but Christ is faithful to forgive as we ask… as long as we ask in truth, believing.
God bless, andrea
The conversation that you are 'adding'/responding to was not about repentance, your whole response was about repentance which is another topic and an entirely different discussion.
Hence I said you didn't understand the conversation. That seems to be true since you switched the subject entirely.
Topic switching and word twisting is what the pharisee's did and tried to do with Jesus. What they said was [B]98% true, the deception was they added the false in there[/B] waiting for Jesus, who was without sin and only truth would correct them. Sneaky little deception going on there!
It's nice to see you back @Andrea411!
ToBeBlessed:
In this thread, I have seen you to strongly disagree with jiminpa, SpiritPsalmist, Gideon, Andrea, and myself (the OP).
Now I honestly am not sure which of us you may be calling a 'Pharisee', but I can tell you that I do not believe that jiminpa, SpiritPsalmist, Gideon, or Andrea are 'Pharisees'. Their time and testimony on CF alone gives witness to the fact that they are not.
And I am not a 'Pharisee' either.
This thread is about deception.
And we can become deceived a multitude of ways.
One of the ways we can become deceived is by 'the company' we keep. Bad company corrupts morals.
"Do not be misled: Bad company corrupts good character."
(1 Cor. 15:33)
Like it or not, we can be influenced by the persons with which we choose to associate.
Another way I believe we can become deceived is by the internet itself.
Internet communication can be swell, but it also can be deceptive as there are limits to 'what' the internet can be expected to accurately communicate. So much is lost in internet communication, like the facial expressions and vocal tones of others. And then there may be language barriers. And there may be some persons that just can’t communicate well in writing. And, and, and. Point being, there is plenty of room for much misunderstanding when persons only know each other on the internet.
So the influence of bad company, the limits of the internet, and a host of others things can affect our perception of others on the net.
Now, there is no misunderstanding it, when someone calls another a 'Pharisee' ...
... but when persons post and say something that could upset me, I've found it really helps for me to stop and pray and really think about what I’ve read before responding inappropriately or harshly because of a wrong influence or bias or belief that may be affecting my perception at the time.
"Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things."
(1 Cor. 13)
If you are seeing me (the OP) as a 'Pharisee', or any of those I have mentioned, you are mistaken. We are not.
Admittedly I fail at times, but I do try to walk in love. I ask that you might consider doing the same and try to 'think no evil of us'. But if you cannot, and if you continue to be distressed by this thread, perhaps you might want to consider unsubscribing from the discussion.
God bless.
Jesus called out liars, the father of liars is not the Father of truth! It seems your father is NOT my Father.
I will comment on any thread I please. If people cannot read and comprehend that's not my issue.
Of course you can.
In my discussion with you (above), I was only hoping to clarify for you that neither jiminpa, or SpiritPsalmist, or Gideon, or Andrea, or myself are 'Pharisees' and to point out that sometimes we can be deceived into seeing others as 'our enemy', based on other factors that may be influencing our perception of things.
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