Paganisms and Christianity

RedBalfour · Jun 4, 2007

My second thread made to try and understand if christians have something against pagans

So, do christiant have a problem with us, and do any of us have a problem with them? this isn't meant to be offensive, so keep any slating/flaming a purely good natured level.
(I know there are 100s of different kinds of pagan, but i'm grouping us together for now)

tapero · Jun 4, 2007

RedBalfour said:
My second thread made to try and understand if christians have something against pagans

So, do christiant have a problem with us, and do any of us have a problem with them? this isn't meant to be offensive, so keep any slating/flaming a purely good natured level.
(I know there are 100s of different kinds of pagan, but i'm grouping us together for now)

Hi, in this forum only the op of the thread can post in here and alll replies are by Christians, so you wont' get the other pov you requested.

Before Christ we were all non Christians and so if anyone holds something against those who are not Christian, then perhaps they have forgotten they once too were without Christ.

God loves all very much and so are we to do so.

blessings,
tapero

Rafael · Jun 4, 2007

The only war and fight should be a spiritual one between good and evil, and it is not to be considered one of flesh and blood to the Christian (Ephesians 6:12)
The debt owed all men according to the Bible is love - even to one's enemies that persecute them.

Ro 13:8 Owe nothing to anyone––except for your obligation to love one another. If you love your neighbor, you will fulfill the requirements of God’s law.

Mt 5:44 "But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,

vespasia · Jun 4, 2007

My own experience is this.

Those who 'have a problem' with pagans (et al) are the ones who have not got a good grounding in who Christ IS let alone the faith and values they claim to believe in.

calidog · Jun 4, 2007

RedBalfour said:
My second thread made to try and understand if christians have something against pagans

So, do christiant have a problem with us, and do any of us have a problem with them? this isn't meant to be offensive, so keep any slating/flaming a purely good natured level.
(I know there are 100s of different kinds of pagan, but i'm grouping us together for now)

If Christ loves the pagan, we should too.

RedBalfour · Jun 4, 2007

lol!
Hehehe, this is much more...friendly than the last time i posted this kind of thread.

Thanks for the info tapero , I didn't know, obviously

I'm not exactly sure what Rafael's point is...can someone explain the bible quotes to me please?

TheyShallExpel · Jun 4, 2007

Yes, we love pagans and we pray and trust that they receive revelation, for revelation is a gift that many are offered and even fewer are given.
"When thou art come into the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. There shall not be found among you [any one] that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, [or] that useth divination, [or] an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things [are] an abomination unto the Lord: and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee."
Deuteronomy 18:9-12
Although we love pagans, they will join the rest of the anti-Christ in hades.
"Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers."
Ephesians 4:29

Although I have said it as it is; I certainly pray that you do have the opportunity to receive grace.
You say you would prefer a "good natured level". There is no such thing as "good natured" when it comes to your immortal soul.

swill8295 · Jun 4, 2007

RedBalfour said:
lol!
Hehehe, this is much more...friendly than the last time i posted this kind of thread.

Thanks for the info tapero , I didn't know, obviously

I'm not exactly sure what Rafael's point is...can someone explain the bible quotes to me please?

Basically he's saying if a Christian antagonizes people of other religions, including pagans, then he/she is a hypocrite and defeating the purpose of Christianity stated in the new testament. That purpose being, love your neighbor. Anyone who doesn't love everyone but claims to love Jesus is a liar.

Galatians 5:14
The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

James 2:8
If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing right.

Mark 12:28-34
28One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?"

29"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.[a] 30Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'[b] 31The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[c]There is no commandment greater than these."
32"Well said, teacher," the man replied. "You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. 33To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices." 34When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God." And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions.

1 John 2:4
The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 4:20
20If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.

TheyShallExpel · Jun 4, 2007

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.

Thats is absolutely right swill8295; however, there is absolutely no point in dressing it up as anything "airy fairy". (Please excuse the deliberate pun.)

Rafael · Jun 4, 2007

RedBalfour said:
lol!
Hehehe, this is much more...friendly than the last time i posted this kind of thread.

Thanks for the info tapero , I didn't know, obviously

I'm not exactly sure what Rafael's point is...can someone explain the bible quotes to me please?

The quotes from the Bible tell us that we have an obligation to love others no matter if they like or love us back, even our enemies that would persecute or hurt us. We are not to retaliate to hatred with anything other than love.
From your post, it looked as though you expected conflict, but the Bible tells the Christian to not fight against people, but to love them as though it is our debt to them. The real war or conflict is a spiritual one for those that would accept what the Bible says. Good versus evil, love versus hate, and what we add to or take away from that spiritual battle....
I hope that explains better.

swill8295 · Jun 4, 2007

TheyShallExpel said:
A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.

Thats is absolutely right swill8295; however, there is absolutely no point in dressing it up as anything "airy fairy". (Please excuse the deliberate pun.)

Matthew 5:37
Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

Merlin · Jun 4, 2007

No problems with Peganists, Just with Peganism.

RedBalfour · Jun 4, 2007

"When thou art come into the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. There shall not be found among you [any one] that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, [or] that useth divination, [or] an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things [are] an abomination unto the Lord: and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee."

I'm not a wizard or witch. I dont have that kind of skill, few, maybe none, have it. Herbalism is likely what christians meeting pagans saw. An expert knowledge of plant properties. It may have looked like magic, but if it was, what'd be wrong about it?

And why so Merlin? This is what i'm here to find out. the more data the better.

So, so far, only one of you thinks i'm going to hell no matter how i live...thats more than usual, i admit.

Merlin · Jun 4, 2007

RedBalfour said:
I'm not a wizard or witch. I dont have that kind of skill, few, maybe none, have it. Herbalism is likely what christians meeting pagans saw. An expert knowledge of plant properties. It may have looked like magic, but if it was, what'd be wrong about it?

And why so Merlin? This is what i'm here to find out. the more data the better.

So, so far, only one of you thinks i'm going to hell no matter how i live...thats more than usual, i admit.

The dictionary defines Pagan as:

noun: a person who does not acknowledge your God
adjective: not acknowledging the God of Christianity and Judaism and Islam

Maybe you can define your understanding of Pagan so that we can communicate better.

As to going to hell, that's dependant only on accepting Jesus or not. Not whatever religion you practice.

RedBalfour · Jun 4, 2007

I accept he was real, i accep he was divine, i accept he may or may not have been the son of a God. Which would make him a Demi-God with Mary's blood. Believing isn't worshiping. I'm a believer, but i'm not a worshiper.

Different dictionaries aknowlege the word differently. Pollythiest is a much longer and more formal term. Someone who believes in more than one god is a pagan.

Merlin · Jun 4, 2007

RedBalfour said:
I accept he was real, i accep he was divine,

So does Satan.

i accept he may or may not have been the son of a God. Which would make him a Demi-God with Mary's blood. Believing isn't worshiping. I'm a believer, but i'm not a worshiper.

Different dictionaries aknowlege the word differently. Pollythiest is a much longer and more formal term. Someone who believes in more than one god is a pagan.[/quote]

OK.
I reject 'polyTheism'
But not the person practicing polytheism.

Going to hell or not does not depend on belief, or religion, but rather on whether one has accepted Jesus as their Lord and saviour.

RedBalfour · Jun 4, 2007

I'll get my sun screen ready. Because he's not the one who saved my soul. He showed the way to a good life, a moral and good existence, but i think the bible flawed his words. i dont think he dies on the cross to save our sins, i think that was political spin, to make it seem that the end of his mission ended better than it did.
I like him, i think he was good, and godly. But he didn't save my sins, another God sacrificed himself so I could live.

talitha · Jun 5, 2007

Merlin said:
No problems with Peganists, Just with Peganism.

Exactly what I was going to say, except for the spelling. I suspect, though, that there is a point to the way you spelled it?

RedBalfour said:
I'm not a wizard or witch. I dont have that kind of skill, few, maybe none, have it. Herbalism is likely what christians meeting pagans saw. An expert knowledge of plant properties. It may have looked like magic, but if it was, what'd be wrong about it?

Christians have nothing against herbalism - many Christians today use medicinal herbs, although we do need to be careful about taking concoctions that were ceremoniously produced - there can be repricussions; a friend of mine started to go into early labor because of the spirit associated with the herbal cough remedy she took. We dealt with the spirit, and the contractions stopped.

a side note here - Chrisitans do not need to fear the spirits associated with paganism - we have authority over them in the name of Jesus.

So, so far, only one of you thinks i'm going to hell no matter how i live...thats more than usual, i admit.

How you live has nothing to do with whether you go to heaven or hell. It's strictly determined by whether you belong to Jesus or to some other spirit. Those who belong to Jesus will go to Heaven. A side effect of belonging to Jesus is that "how we live" tends to improve in terms of both morality and joy.

RedBalfour said:
I accept he was real, i accep he was divine, i accept he may or may not have been the son of a God. Which would make him a Demi-God with Mary's blood. Believing isn't worshiping. I'm a believer, but i'm not a worshiper.

Then you are not saved.

Jesus is not a demi-god. He is GOD-in-the-flesh. He does not have Mary's blood. Did you know that when a baby is born, that baby's blood comes from the father? I find that fact fascinating. I don't know the specifics of how that works, but I know that is true. That's why it's possible for the baby and the mom to have two different blood types.

RedBalfour said:
Because he's not the one who saved my soul. He showed the way to a good life, a moral and good existence, but i think the bible flawed his words. i dont think he dies on the cross to save our sins, i think that was political spin, to make it seem that the end of his mission ended better than it did.
I like him, i think he was good, and godly. But he didn't save my sins, another God sacrificed himself so I could live.

There is no entity that is able to save your soul other than Jesus.

tal

talitha · Jun 5, 2007

RedBalfour said:
You have authority? Thats a bit confident. Does that give you authority over me, i wonder.

No, I don't have authority over you. God does not (and angelic and demonic spirits cannot) override human will.

By th sounds of it, Jesus wouldn't enforce any authority. He's all for equal rites/rights.

No, Jesus is not for equal rights. Jesus is lord of the heavens (spiritual realms) and the earth, and He has given His disciples rights to exercise His authority.

You know that priests disagree with you there?

Not all priests - not the ones who understand the Word of God.

But lets say you're right, and I'm going to hell.

I will not say you're going to Hell. I do not know whether or not you will accept the truth before you die.

Fine by me. Hell's described as a place without God, and I dont like the christian portrayal of God. He's pompus, arrogant, and damnes all to hell for not believing.

You would not like Hell. The truth is that everything good and right and true comes from God - without Him there is only destruction.

Did you ancestors of 2000 years ago go to hell for worshiping in other Gods? Do people who haven't heard the name of God go to hell?

I believe that we are responsible for the truth that has reached us. As a missionary in Siberia I met people who were raised atheists, buddhists, shamanists, but who "always knew" that there was one God who loved them. When they heard the Gospel, they readily accepted it, because it rang more true to them than the things they were always taught.

Hehehe you lack research, padawan. The blood doesn't come from the father, unless something goes horribly wrong when he [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]. Blood type is made of dominant and non-dominant alleals in the blood. dominant alleals are always present, and if the father has more dominant ones, it becomes his blood type. if the mother's blood is more dominant, its her blood type. but its not his blood. that'd need a transfusion.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure what padawan means - probably some kind of pompus insult - but I'll be sure and check it out.

And many christians thing that Jesus is NOT God - they dont believe in the trinity being one thing. So are all these christian groups going to hell too? By the sounds of it you and Jesus are going to have a wonderful time alone.

Click to expand...

Christians believe Jesus is GOD. I know MANY Christians. I do not believe that people who don't accept the divinity of Christ are Christians.

Theres the thing. All you have is the bible telling you he did it. all you've got is words.

Click to expand...

Nope. I have a personal relationship with Jesus - he spoke with me this morning and yesterday and the day before that.

And thats the same as me. Thor's sacrifice predates christ. He was hung upside down from a tree for nine days, starving. Finaly, he sacrificed himself and fell from Ydgrasil to return to Valhalla - to continue Godhood.

Click to expand...

Thor is a demonic principality that must bow to Jesus. According to the Bible, every knee will bow - in earth and under the earth - and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Two speculations, both with scripture to back it up. What makes yours more credible than mine? At least my Gods dont say you're going to burn if you dont think just like youre told.

Click to expand...

True, other spirits do not warn of such spiritual realities - but they know these realities exist.

blessings in Christ
tal

Click to expand...

RedBalfour · Jun 5, 2007

I'm not sure what padawan means - probably some kind of pompus insult - but I'll be sure and check it out.

We're you born in 1800? I thought every human being within 100 miles of a DVD player would have seen Star Wars...Padawan is a student of the Jedi religion, someone who's inexpreienced in the ways of The Force. Not so much an insult as...you were just inexperienced.

Christians believe Jesus is GOD. I know MANY Christians. I do not believe that people who don't accept the divinity of Christ are Christians

Not all Christians. I'm assuming Low Anglicans dont seeing as my friend Maddy believes the trinity is three separate parts. My mother doesn't believe in transubstantiation, like half of the christian tree. is she going to hell by your rules?

Nope. I have a personal relationship with Jesus - he spoke with me this morning and yesterday and the day before that.

And you think I hear Satan when I pray? 'I find your lack of faith disturbing...'...Star Wars quote, nevermind. Most christians say they can hear God all day. Anytime i think about them, i can hear my Gods. But it must be Satan...hey, you think he's why I like Metal?

Thor is a demonic principality that must bow to Jesus. According to the Bible, every knee will bow - in earth and under the earth - and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

I find your lack of research disturbing, Padawan. Most people who dare call Gods evil tend to make sure they know what they're talking about. It was Odin who did that. Thor is just a Thunder God, Odin is master of...well... everything. His image of bearded and wise is the precedent for Gods image.
My tounge will lay silent. I suppose when i enter Hell then Blackbeard shall hand over his crown to me, the only one who dare defy God? (The legend goes that when Blackbeard went to hell, Satan bowed down, and gave rulership of hell to him)

Define spirits please. Usualy i refer to spirits as strong alcohol. do you just mean anything that claims to be a God?

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