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pagan Roman emperors used Astronomy to appear Divine

Quid est Veritas?

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Remarkable thread. I wonder if you know more about this than my college classicist professors. Amazing information. Are you a professor or professional academic?
I hope I am not being presumptuous to think you are asking me? It is flattering, but no, I am just an enthusiastic amateur that has always deeply loved Ancient Rome his entire life.
I think you underestimate your professors. They write long tomes on even minute pieces of Roman history. I once read a long book solely on Ovid's exile to the Black Sea. I have some tertiary education here as well, and my Latin professor was awesome. He had such an in depth knowledge that he could even point you to the vague source of almost anything you asked about.
 
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JohannineScholar

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I hope I am not being presumptuous to think you are asking me? It is flattering, but no, I am just an enthusiastic amateur that has always deeply loved Ancient Rome his entire life.
I think you underestimate your professors. They write long tomes on even minute pieces of Roman history. I once read a long book solely on Ovid's exile to the Black Sea. I have some tertiary education here as well, and my Latin professor was awesome. He had such an in depth knowledge that he could even point you to the vague source of almost anything you asked about.
Yes, no doubt I have, but their knowledge tended to be specialized on particular authors or aspects of Roman history. I let my surprise at reading the thread involve me in some hyperbole, but it is all, nevertheless most informative, and, if I might say so as someone with degrees in Classics, impressive.
 
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Erik Nelson

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Mount Etna erupted catastrophically shortly before the assassination of Caesar in 44BC.

Perhaps his enemies perceived the super eruption as an "act of God", as if "Earth was condemning Caesar"? And so they were motivated thereby to strike?

And perhaps perhaps Octavian portrayed "Caesar's comet" as proof that "heaven is mightier than Earth"??

How volcanoes may have ended the dynasty of Ptolemy and Cleopatra

Massive Volcanic Eruptions Linked to Revolts in Ptolemaic Egypt | Archaeology, Paleoclimatology | Sci-News.com

In the Wake of Etna, 44 B.C. on JSTOR
 
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Quid est Veritas?

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Mount Etna erupted catastrophically shortly before the assassination of Caesar in 44BC.

Perhaps his enemies perceived the super eruption as an "act of God", as if "Earth was condemning Caesar"? And so they were motivated thereby to strike?

And perhaps perhaps Octavian portrayed "Caesar's comet" as proof that "heaven is mightier than Earth"??

How volcanoes may have ended the dynasty of Ptolemy and Cleopatra

Massive Volcanic Eruptions Linked to Revolts in Ptolemaic Egypt | Archaeology, Paleoclimatology | Sci-News.com

In the Wake of Etna, 44 B.C. on JSTOR

While I find it interesting that volcanoes may have impacted the annual Nile flood, I find the historical argument on Ptolemaic Egypt a bit specious.
Ptolemaic Egypt had been undergoing revolts for the duration of its existence. There had also been frequent civil wars. For the hundred years or so before these eruptions, it essentially existed as a Roman client. This can be clearly illustrated by Popillius Laenas saving Egypt by stopping Antiochus IV's conquest, the Senate confirming Ptolemy XII Auletes and Pompey's Eastern Settlement.
It did not seem as if Ptolemaic Egypt had lost control of its own lands, but held it at the leave of Rome. If Anthony and Cleopatra had won at Actium, or Augustus supported Caesarion or Anthony's twins or another Ptolemaic descendant as client-king, I see no reason why Ptolemaic Egypt couldn't have endured.

As to Etna influencing the Liberators, this seems plausible. Ancient people often believed in Omens, even if some did not. For every Appius Claudius drowning his chickens, we perhaps had an Aurelian taking it more seriously. Omens continued playing a role long after Rome, as mediaeval accounts of comets heralding Vikings or the fall of Jerusalem, or even Shakespeare's Macbeth attest.
The assassination was multi-factorial though, so ascribing it merely to an eruption is simplistic. Likely their chief motivation was Caesar having the Senate proclaim him dictator for life.
 
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JackRT

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If we were to put the Christian persecution of the Pagans following Constantine into a present day context we might do so as follows. It will start with crowds harassing ministers and priests in the streets. It proceeds to riots and the burning of churches with the consequent killing of pastors and prominent members of congregations. This proceeds to attacking bible colleges and seminaries. The faculty are murdered, the libraries are burned and the buildings demolished. In the meantime church after church is attacked and burned. The diehard Christians are shipped off to concentration camps for interrogation (torture) and execution. Now, imagine that not only Christian institutions are treated in this way but every institution that has Christians in the faculty. Everything tainted in the least bit with Christianity is attacked and destroyed and any objectors are tortured and killed. One after another our schools and academies and universities are destroyed, their teachers tortured and killed. Libraries great and small are put to the torch. Die hard Christians are hunted down to the few remaining churches and die en masse as martyrs to their faith. Now imagine this happening over three centuries. In the end the world devolves into a very long dark age of ignorance and superstition. Reverse the words Christian and Pagan and you might begin to imagine the persecution and the suffering and why the Roman Empire collapsed into barbarism for the next thousand years.

This Christian attack on Paganism had the inadvertent effect of destroying the intellectual infrastructure of Roman civilization. This among other events was a partial cause of the collapse of the Roman Empire in the West. The East fared a little better but ironically it was the Muslims who took this intellectual infrastructure added to it and eventually transmitted it back to the Western world.

History does have some interesting twists and turns.
 
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Quid est Veritas?

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If we were to put the Christian persecution of the Pagans following Constantine into a present day context we might do so as follows. It will start with crowds harassing ministers and priests in the streets. It proceeds to riots and the burning of churches with the consequent killing of pastors and prominent members of congregations. This proceeds to attacking bible colleges and seminaries. The faculty are murdered, the libraries are burned and the buildings demolished. In the meantime church after church is attacked and burned. The diehard Christians are shipped off to concentration camps for interrogation (torture) and execution. Now, imagine that not only Christian institutions are treated in this way but every institution that has Christians in the faculty. Everything tainted in the least bit with Christianity is attacked and destroyed and any objectors are tortured and killed. One after another our schools and academies and universities are destroyed, their teachers tortured and killed. Libraries great and small are put to the torch. Die hard Christians are hunted down to the few remaining churches and die en masse as martyrs to their faith. Now imagine this happening over three centuries. In the end the world devolves into a very long dark age of ignorance and superstition. Reverse the words Christian and Pagan and you might begin to imagine the persecution and the suffering and why the Roman Empire collapsed into barbarism for the next thousand years.

This Christian attack on Paganism had the inadvertent effect of destroying the intellectual infrastructure of Roman civilization. This among other events was a partial cause of the collapse of the Roman Empire in the West. The East fared a little better but ironically it was the Muslims who took this intellectual added to it and eventually transmitted it back to the Western world.

History does have some interesting twists and turns.
I have told you this a number of times before, but your whole description of the persecution of Pagans is basically nonsense. It is also thoroughly off-topic to this thread.

Anyway, Rome converted to Christianity in the fourth century. Islam arose in the 7th. For 300 years Rome 'preserved' the teachings of the ancients for it to be there for the Islamic scholars to peruse later. Aristotle and much Greek Science survived intact in tbe Eastern Empire until tbe Renaissance, when people like George Plethon translated it for thr West.
What happened was that the late Empire favoured Epitomes, short abbreviations of ideas instead of the books themselves - like wikipedia. This was on account of the expense of books and the vast knowledge out there - if you have a limited budget, buying an encyclopedia seems a good idea to get broad knowledge.
The Barbarians could not apply this properly after the fall of the West as they did not have the required background knowledge, and the Church acted as the saviour of much learning in the early mediaeval period. Of course the Church would stress Church texts, as scriptoria physically couldn't copy everything.

Book burning did occur, but this was the writings of heretic Christians - we know of no burning of Pagan historians or literature, as Ovid, Virgil, Horace, Cicero, Plautus, etc. still attest and are extent. The likes of Arius and his ilk are missing though.

Theodosius closed the Academy, but by that stage it was largely a temple to Neoplatonic conceptions of the One , a religion more than a philosophy, and philosophical instruction was never curtailed otherwise. Libanius or Hypatia continued apace, with no official censure. The latter is often used as an example, but this situation was little different from Pagans killing Socrates or Pythagoras - hardly a Christian thing. This supposed Christian attack on ancient learning is simply myth.

Likewise, there were no 'concentration camps' nor burning of Temples. Most Temples were state institutions, that stood empty after Constantine's successors discontinued the state cults. They were subsequently repurposed into lawcourts, converted to Churches as Christianity became the state religion, or cannibalised for materials. They weren't burnt by mobs as such, as the many and varied extent examples of ancient temples clearly indicate. Theodosius' anti-pagan laws were largely the coup-de-grace to a dying creature, which has greatly been exagerated itself. We see pagans continue to practice in rural areas into the early middle ages - which is where tbe term 'pagan' comes from, for rural country bumpkins. This strange idea of a bloody persecution and inquisition-style torturing is highly anachronistic.

Please don't repost that long list of unsubstantiated and unreferenced points you usually do regarding this - As I told you before, it is not correct in the least.
 
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Erik Nelson

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While I find it interesting that volcanoes may have impacted the annual Nile flood, I find the historical argument on Ptolemaic Egypt a bit specious.
Ptolemaic Egypt had been undergoing revolts for the duration of its existence. There had also been frequent civil wars. For the hundred years or so before these eruptions, it essentially existed as a Roman client. This can be clearly illustrated by Popillius Laenas saving Egypt by stopping Antiochus IV's conquest, the Senate confirming Ptolemy XII Auletes and Pompey's Eastern Settlement.
It did not seem as if Ptolemaic Egypt had lost control of its own lands, but held it at the leave of Rome. If Anthony and Cleopatra had won at Actium, or Augustus supported Caesarion or Anthony's twins or another Ptolemaic descendant as client-king, I see no reason why Ptolemaic Egypt couldn't have endured.

As to Etna influencing the Liberators, this seems plausible. Ancient people often believed in Omens, even if some did not. For every Appius Claudius drowning his chickens, we perhaps had an Aurelian taking it more seriously. Omens continued playing a role long after Rome, as mediaeval accounts of comets heralding Vikings or the fall of Jerusalem, or even Shakespeare's Macbeth attest.
The assassination was multi-factorial though, so ascribing it merely to an eruption is simplistic. Likely their chief motivation was Caesar having the Senate proclaim him dictator for life.

Yes, I'm simply suggesting a possible "battle of the omens", with Octavian combatting superstitions condemning Caesar on account of the eruption with a "greater, heavenly" superstition of a comet acclaiming Caesar.
 
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