Padre Pio on Women's Dress and a touch on Men's

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isabella1

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Ok...go ahead and get those eyes rolling. ^_^

I know it is not our culture, but I just find reading about the saints especially Padre Pio fascinating. And ever since I prayed years ago asking for his intercessions, and requesting that he take me under his wings as one of his spiritual daughters, lets just say he has put a holy fire under my behind, and lead me on quite the path of convictions in my heart. Better watch what you pray for, you may not be excited about the answers.:doh:

Padre Pio on Women's Dress
from Prophet of the People,
by Dorothy M. Gaudiose, pp. 191-2


Women received especially rough treatment from Padre Pio because of current fashions. He had always been a merciless enemy of feminine vanity. "Vanity," he said, "is the son of pride, and is even more malignant than its mother. Have you ever seen a field of ripe corn? Some ears are tall; others are bent to the ground. Try taking the tallest, the proudest ones, and you will see that they are empty; but if you take the smallest, the humblest ones, they are laden with seeds. From this you can see that vanity is empty."

Padre Pio wouldn't tolerate low-necked dresses or short, tight skirts, and he forbade his spiritual daughters to wear transparent stockings. Each year his severity increased. He stubbornly dismissed them from his confessional, even before they set foot inside, if he judged them to be improperly dressed. On some mornings he drove away one after another, until he ended up hearing very few confessions.

His brothers observed these drastic purges with a certain uneasiness and decided to fasten a sign on the church door: "By Padre Pio's explicit wish, women must enter his confessional wearing skirts at least eight inches below the knees. It is forbidden to borrow longer dresses in church and to wear them for the confessional."

The last warning was not without effect. There was a furtive exchange of skirts, blouses, and raincoats, that took place at the last moment in the half-lit church to remedy any failings.

The women made their adjustments, but perhaps not exactly enough. Padre Pio continued to send some away before giving them a chance to confess. He would glower at them and grumble, "Go and get dressed." And sometimes he added, "Clowns!" He spared no one... Persons he saw for the first time, or his long-time spiritual daughters. Often the skirts were decidedly many inches below the knees, but not sufficiently long for his moral severity.

As the years began to weigh on Padre Pio, his daily hours in the confessional were limited to four, equally divided between men and women. In addition to being dressed properly, they had to know the Italian language, even though he could somehow understand people speaking another language. But he knew Italian, Latin, and very little French, consistently refusing to hear confessions except in Italian or Latin.

Sometimes when Padre Pio refused to absolve his penitents and closed the small confessional door in their faces, the people would reproach him asking why he acted this way. "Don't you know," he asked, "what pain it costs me to shut the door on anyone? The Lord has forced me to do so. I do not call anyone, nor do I refuse anyone either. There is someone else who calls and refuses them. I am His useless tool."

Even the men had rules to follow. They were not permitted to enter the church with three-quarter length sleeves. Boys as well as men had to wear long trousers at church, if they didn't want to be shown out of church, that is. But women in short skirts were his prime targets. Padre Pio's citadel was perhaps the only place in the world where the fashions of the 1930s still ruled in the 1960s.

(Do you recall what Our Lady of Fatima said about "certain fashions?")
 

Gwendolyn

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I am confused about the sheer stockings thing. I don't understand how that is immodest, especially if it is only the women's ankles that are visible between the skirt and the shoes. Opaque tights (especially cotton) are HORRIBLE in the summer. (I once had a job where I dressed up in Victorian costume and did tours of a pioneer village during the summer. Victorian dresses + thick cotton tights meant that I fainted on more than one occasion in the summer heat.)
 
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JimR-OCDS

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Ok...go ahead and get those eyes rolling. ^_^

I know it is not our culture, but I just find reading about the saints especially Padre Pio fascinating. And ever since I prayed years ago asking for his intercessions, and requesting that he take me under his wings as one of his spiritual daughters, lets just say he has put a holy fire under my behind, and lead me on quite the path of convictions in my heart. Better watch what you pray for, you may not be excited about the answers.:doh:

Padre Pio on Women's Dress
from Prophet of the People,
by Dorothy M. Gaudiose, pp. 191-2


Women received especially rough treatment from Padre Pio because of current fashions. He had always been a merciless enemy of feminine vanity. "Vanity," he said, "is the son of pride, and is even more malignant than its mother. Have you ever seen a field of ripe corn? Some ears are tall; others are bent to the ground. Try taking the tallest, the proudest ones, and you will see that they are empty; but if you take the smallest, the humblest ones, they are laden with seeds. From this you can see that vanity is empty."

Padre Pio wouldn't tolerate low-necked dresses or short, tight skirts, and he forbade his spiritual daughters to wear transparent stockings. Each year his severity increased. He stubbornly dismissed them from his confessional, even before they set foot inside, if he judged them to be improperly dressed. On some mornings he drove away one after another, until he ended up hearing very few confessions.

His brothers observed these drastic purges with a certain uneasiness and decided to fasten a sign on the church door: "By Padre Pio's explicit wish, women must enter his confessional wearing skirts at least eight inches below the knees. It is forbidden to borrow longer dresses in church and to wear them for the confessional."

The last warning was not without effect. There was a furtive exchange of skirts, blouses, and raincoats, that took place at the last moment in the half-lit church to remedy any failings.

The women made their adjustments, but perhaps not exactly enough. Padre Pio continued to send some away before giving them a chance to confess. He would glower at them and grumble, "Go and get dressed." And sometimes he added, "Clowns!" He spared no one... Persons he saw for the first time, or his long-time spiritual daughters. Often the skirts were decidedly many inches below the knees, but not sufficiently long for his moral severity.

As the years began to weigh on Padre Pio, his daily hours in the confessional were limited to four, equally divided between men and women. In addition to being dressed properly, they had to know the Italian language, even though he could somehow understand people speaking another language. But he knew Italian, Latin, and very little French, consistently refusing to hear confessions except in Italian or Latin.

Sometimes when Padre Pio refused to absolve his penitents and closed the small confessional door in their faces, the people would reproach him asking why he acted this way. "Don't you know," he asked, "what pain it costs me to shut the door on anyone? The Lord has forced me to do so. I do not call anyone, nor do I refuse anyone either. There is someone else who calls and refuses them. I am His useless tool."

Even the men had rules to follow. They were not permitted to enter the church with three-quarter length sleeves. Boys as well as men had to wear long trousers at church, if they didn't want to be shown out of church, that is. But women in short skirts were his prime targets. Padre Pio's citadel was perhaps the only place in the world where the fashions of the 1930s still ruled in the 1960s.

(Do you recall what Our Lady of Fatima said about "certain fashions?")


I always had a problem with Padre Pio in this respect.

Did Jesus send anyone away when they came to him with repentant hearts?

Jim
 
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AMDG

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they came to him with repentant hearts?

But that's the point. Their hearts were not repentant. They were looking to be part of this world (and not the leven Jesus said we should be), were willing to tempt others into sin by inappropriate dress, and to be disobedient (and get away with it). It's not just face value--remember that Padre Pio had the gift (given to him by God) of reading hearts!
 
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isabella1

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I am confused about the sheer stockings thing. I don't understand how that is immodest, especially if it is only the women's ankles that are visible between the skirt and the shoes. Opaque tights (especially cotton) are HORRIBLE in the summer. (I once had a job where I dressed up in Victorian costume and did tours of a pioneer village during the summer. Victorian dresses + thick cotton tights meant that I fainted on more than one occasion in the summer heat.)
I know what you mean. I am quite certain he would of thrown me out of the confessional too (until I came back with a truly pure heart and mind) and maybe even Mass as well. *Shrug* I rarely wear hose or tights, it is either knee highs or thigh highs, some times they are in color, but I didn't understand it either. Oh well I am not a saint though.

I always had a problem with Padre Pio in this respect.

Did Jesus send anyone away when they came to him with repentant hearts?

Jim
I don't have a problem with Fr. Pio at all. He was a very Holy Priest. The Holy Spirit worked powerfully through him. He was both humble and obedient. I am sure if any one of us were in his presence we would see our own impure minds and hearts. It just happens that way when you are in the presence of holiness. Of course Jesus did not turn anyone away, but he did make sure they amended their ways. Mary Magdalen comes to mind. And he certainly got angry when they were not behaving in his Fathers house as they should. I know how you feel though Jim, the path to holiness in todays world is so very difficult to follow. We compromise so many things because of "it not being our culture", (myself included). What I have to keep reminding myself is though, God never changes, nor do his ways, since the beginning of creation. It is us who have changed, and compromised. Know what I mean?

But that's the point. Their hearts were not repentant. They were looking to be part of this world (and not the leven Jesus said we should be), were willing to tempt others into sin by inappropriate dress, and to be disobedient (and get away with it). It's not just face value--remember that Padre Pio had the gift (given to him by God) of reading hearts!
:thumbsup:
 
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isabella1

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By the way, this thread was not started to get anyone going about the way we dress now or should.

I certainly know that unless you are a traditional practicing Muslim, or in a Christian or Catholic order that has a dress code, chances are that you will go along with cultural trends. It is just the way it is.

I was just fascinated with Padre Pios strict dress code rules. He even made a statement when asked about it that it is not him who is imposing these rules, it is the holy spirit working through him, that he is nothing. I will try and find the statement and post it. I am sure I am grossly misquoting him.

I was actually running through my mind how I could dress more traditional (for lack of better words) without making a skeptical of myself. Then I came to realize that it would not be possible. Just wearing a mantilla during Mass is more than enough for me, that draws enough attention (now I am wondering if I should even do that), I cant imagine going against the cultural norm and being gawked at 24/7. People tend to avoid sitting by my daughter and I in Mass as it is, that can't be good. I wouldn't want them running from us. :(
 
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Davidnic

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Thing is there is a difference between immodest and things that are different that become fashion in a time and culture. Clothed with a respectful heart and in general modest terms is fine. It does not have to be archaic fashion or we would all put on first century robes.

There needs to be a balance between a norm of modesty and allowing cultural and temporal variance.
 
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Davidnic

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I was actually running through my mind how I could dress more traditional (for lack of better words) without making a skeptical of myself. Then I came to realize that it would not be possible.

For most a nice shirt and a long skirt or full dress in good taste would be a good choice. I see that often and it works for many.
 
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JimR-OCDS

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But that's the point. Their hearts were not repentant. They were looking to be part of this world (and not the leven Jesus said we should be), were willing to tempt others into sin by inappropriate dress, and to be disobedient (and get away with it). It's not just face value--remember that Padre Pio had the gift (given to him by God) of reading hearts!


How do you know they were not repentant?

BTW, defenders of Padre Pio say he could read hearts, but Scripture says, only God can read the heart of a man.


It could've been a mere tourist who during her visit, had a conversion experience and was being called to go to confession. She went, was turned away because of a problem the good Padre had with her dress.

It just doesn't seem right.

I know that at one time the National Shrine of Divine Mercy, in Stockbridge, use to have a sign outside the Church, "No Shorts or Tanktops allowed."

Well, Stockbridge is a tourist area with lots of people staying at campgrounds. The Shrine is on the tourist brochures and a visitor showing up suddenly sees the opportunity to go to confession and Mass, but is turned away by the sign, because he's wearing shorts.

Anyway, the authorities at the shrine saw the flaw in the restriction and no longer have the sign up.


Jim
 
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Anygma

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wish we could have more priest like Padre Pio or St Jean-Marie Vianney. always be challenged to do better instead of being complacent in mediocrity *sigh*

my main struggle with Padre Pio's dress code is weight fluctuation... i had gotten more dresses last summer and now they don't fit, most of my jeans don't fit either. i struggle enough just to ware something that fit :(

one question i have, is, it's not ok to ware sheer but what about none at all in sandals?
 
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isabella1

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For most a nice shirt and a long skirt or full dress in good taste would be a good choice. I see that often and it works for many.
Yep, got ya. In my neck of the woods, if I were to dress like that all the time, I would be constantly questioned, maybe even viewed as snobbish or trying to be "holier than thou". I am trying to convert my wardrobe over to the longer dress and skirt thing, but it is more difficult than I thought. Oh well, I will just keep trying. :)

How do you know they were not repentant?

BTW, defenders of Padre Pio say he could read hearts, but Scripture says, only God can read the heart of a man.


It could've been a mere tourist who during her visit, had a conversion experience and was being called to go to confession. She went, was turned away because of a problem the good Padre had with her dress.

It just doesn't seem right.

I know that at one time the National Shrine of Divine Mercy, in Stockbridge, use to have a sign outside the Church, "No Shorts or Tanktops allowed."

Well, Stockbridge is a tourist area with lots of people staying at campgrounds. The Shrine is on the tourist brochures and a visitor showing up suddenly sees the opportunity to go to confession and Mass, but is turned away by the sign, because he's wearing shorts.

Anyway, the authorities at the shrine saw the flaw in the restriction and no longer have the sign up.


Jim
Fr. Pio probably would never say he could read hearts. But who am I to say, i never met the man. I have heard that he could see the state of ones soul though though the Holy Spirit. Shrug, again, I have no clue. Guess I will find out when I finally reach heaven. :pray:
wish we could have more priest like Padre Pio or St Jean-Marie Vianney. always be challenged to do better instead of being complacent in mediocrity *sigh*

my main struggle with Padre Pio's dress code is weight fluctuation... i had gotten more dresses last summer and now they don't fit, most of my jeans don't fit either. i struggle enough just to ware something that fit :(

one question i have, is, it's not ok to ware sheer but what about none at all in sandals?
I have struggles with things fitting right also. That is why I have no problem getting my clothes at thrift stores. I go through them to often (meaning in weight flex). Oh, and I wear sandals also without any hose all summer. I cant stand hose in the summer, and now that i have the darn hot flashes :swoon:. ;)
 
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AMDG

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Scripture says, only God can read the heart of a man.

You forget that God could choose to delegate something that He could do to a person (Padre Pio's gift was, afterall, from God.) Are you now saying that God can *not* do everything? I thought He could.
 
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Anygma

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I have struggles with things fitting right also. That is why I have no problem getting my clothes at thrift stores. I go through them to often (meaning in weight flex). Oh, and I wear sandals also without any hose all summer. I cant stand hose in the summer, and now that i have the darn hot flashes :swoon:. ;)

yep, thrift stores are the way to go for me too :thumbsup: but only when i have the time for it... once or twice a year and usually mainly for the kids. so maybe once every 2-3 years for myself :swoon:

i'd never ware pantyhose because i can't stand anything synthetic on my skin, it drives me nuts. i prefer 100% cotton or as close to it as possible. i'm ok with very long dress, the around knee high is probably what turned me off dress in the first place. oh and synthetic slips, i can't stand those either.
 
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Tigg

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Thing is there is a difference between immodest and things that are different that become fashion in a time and culture. Clothed with a respectful heart and in general modest terms is fine. It does not have to be archaic fashion or we would all put on first century robes.

There needs to be a balance between a norm of modesty and allowing cultural and temporal variance.

Agree with you. I did not know that Father was so unreasonable. I can see immodesty being banned but merciful. Go back to the 1st century robes? I think I might like that for awhile but why stop there - go back to Adam and Eve. With the leaves at least! ^_^

However Father Pio was wrong. No one said a saint has to be perfect. :)
 
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cheap-medieval-wedding-dresses.jpg






 
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isabella1

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yep, thrift stores are the way to go for me too :thumbsup: but only when i have the time for it... once or twice a year and usually mainly for the kids. so maybe once every 2-3 years for myself :swoon:

i'd never ware pantyhose because i can't stand anything synthetic on my skin, it drives me nuts. i prefer 100% cotton or as close to it as possible. i'm ok with very long dress, the around knee high is probably what turned me off dress in the first place. oh and synthetic slips, i can't stand those either.
Looks like we both have issues. ^_^
 
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