Over simplistic threads on salvation.

[Mountainmike]

Too many threads follow a logic “ its salvation by faith” as if nothing else matters, or as though “ faith” renders works “ unnecessary” using “ either/ or “ logic. One or other.

The problem with all threads like this is disagreement on the meaning of words, so no surprise a different conclusion is reached.
At a simple level even the devil believes Jesus is Lord , so faith is certainly more than intellectual assent.
It is clearly not enough to “ confess” you believe Jesus is Lord, , since the devil also does that. There is clearly more to it than that.

I recommend all read the “ salvation controversy” by Jimmy akin that highlights how many of the words of soteriology are used differently by factions differently, and are part of the reason they do not agree. Words like “ faith” “ justification” and so on are used differently . Suffice to say one section of Lutheranism achieved an accord with the Holy See on salvation , once They had agreed a meaning of the word “faith” which is not just intellectual assent and includes charity.

Another aspect of the false soteriology of many post reformation factions is an error in simple logic.
Any student of logic can attest “ necessary“ is not the same as “ sufficient”.

“ Salvation by works” is a false misrepresentation , which implies works can be “ sufficient “ for salvation which is simply not so, but Works can still be “necessary” !!! even though never sufficient.

The failure to recognise the difference between “ necessary” and “ sufficient” is why many post reformation groups wrongly take an “ either or “ view of salvation, not a correct “ both and “ view.
It is also why false doctrines like OSAS proliferate.

Faith , as intellectual assent is not enough. We are commanded to do many things As ordinances.

Such as Sheep and goats ( charitable works)
or John 6 ( the Eucharist ) tells you what happens if you do not do them.
but none of what we do is sufficient to merit salvation , so this is not salvation by works.
But we are clearly told what happens if we don’t ! So works are still necessary,
( there are many more ordnances , but the above will do as example)

In the end nothing we do is good enough, and we are saved by grace , which is also why until the race is run you cannot know for sure.
that is why salvation in the bible has components of past , present and future, using the text “ were saved” “are saved” “ will be saved”
Jesus on the cross made our salvation possible, we still have free will, and we must cooperate to be saved. We can also have faith that is a seed that grows quickly , then dies in the parable of the sowers, or is consumed by weeds.

If salvation were just the result of a one off statement of intellectual assent, the bible would only need to be 30 words long! It isn’t. we are asked to do many things. We have free will everyday to do them.

So all of you readers, today were you a sheep or a goat?
What did you do in charitable works? Did you take a valid Eucharist To be “ raised up at the last day” or do you “ have no life in you”.

It could be likened to a job interview.
The experience and qualifications get you an interview (so these are necessary)
They do not get you the job because none of them are sufficient
.
Its down to the discretion of the interviewer who gets the job.
The just judge will decide. But he will decide from among those who did what was necessary!

How will you answer when our Lord says to you” but I asked you to feed me, clothe me and visit me” but you didn’t!!
I made it clear what would happen if you did not”
How Will you argue with Jesus , that He got it wrong, because works were not needed?
it doesn’t matter how you argue with us, on this forum, it’s how you justify yourself to Him that matters.
It is not a good look if you ignored most of what you were told to do , with easy believism OSAS, or faith alone without charitable Works.

 

[Clare73]

Too many threads follow a logic “ its salvation by faith” as if nothing else matters, or as though “ faith” renders works “ unnecessary” using “ either/ or “ logic. One or other.

The problem with all threads like this is disagreement on the meaning of words, so no surprise a different conclusion is reached.
At a simple level even the devil believes Jesus is Lord , so faith is certainly more than intellectual assent.
It is clearly not enough to “ confess” you believe Jesus is Lord, , since the devil also does that. There is clearly more to it than that.

I recommend all read the “ salvation controversy” by Jimmy akin that highlights how many of the words of soteriology are used differently by factions differently, and are part of the reason they do not agree. Words like “ faith” “ justification” and so on are used differently . Suffice to say one section of Lutheranism achieved an accord with the Holy See on salvation , once They had agreed a meaning of the word “faith” which is not just intellectual assent and includes charity.

Another aspect of the false soteriology of many post reformation factions is an error in simple logic.
Any student of logic can attest “ necessary“ is not the same as “ sufficient”.

“ Salvation by works” is a false misrepresentation , which implies works can be “ sufficient “ for salvation which is simply not so, but Works can still be “necessary” !!! even though never sufficient.

The failure to recognise the difference between “ necessary” and “ sufficient” is why many post reformation groups wrongly take an “ either or “ view of salvation, not a correct “ both and “ view.

It is also why false doctrines like OSAS proliferate.

Salvation, correctly understood as the result of the new birth and saving faith in Christ by the Holy Spirit, means there is no loss of salvation.
Saving faith by the Holy Spirit, correctly understood, is trust and obedience.
One is born again by the sovereign decision of the Holy Spirit, who is as unaccountable as the wind in doing as he pleases (Jn 3:7-8), into eternal life eternally. . .not born again. . .dies. . .is reborn. . .dies. . .is reborn. . .etc.
The Holy Spirit of the new birth is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance (2 Co 1:22, 2 Co 5:5, Eph 1:14).
Failure to persevere means one simply was not born again (as in Mt 7:21-23).

Faith , as intellectual assent is not enough. We are commanded to do many things As ordinances.
Such as Sheep and goats ( charitable works)
or John 6 ( the Eucharist ) tells you what happens if you do not do them.
but none of what we do is sufficient to merit salvation , so this is not salvation by works.
But we are clearly told what happens if we don’t ! So works are still necessary,
( there are many more ordnances , but the above will do as example)

In the end nothing we do is good enough, and we are saved by grace , which is also why until the race is run you cannot know for sure.
that is why salvation in the bible has components of past , present and future, using the text “ were saved” “are saved” “ will be saved”
Jesus on the cross made our salvation possible, we still have free will, and we must cooperate to be saved. We can also have faith that is a seed that grows quickly , then dies in the parable of the sowers, or is consumed by weeds.

If salvation were just the result of a one off statement of intellectual assent, the bible would only need to be 30 words long! It isn’t. we are asked to do many things. We have free will everyday to do them.

So all of you readers, today were you a sheep or a goat?
What did you do in charitable works? Did you take a valid Eucharist To be “ raised up at the last day” or do you “ have no life in you”.

It could be likened to a job interview.
The experience and qualifications get you an interview (so these are necessary)
They do not get you the job because none of them are sufficient
.
Its down to the discretion of the interviewer who gets the job.
The just judge will decide. But he will decide from among those who did what was necessary!

How will you answer when our Lord says to you” but I asked you to feed me, clothe me and visit me” but you didn’t!!
I made it clear what would happen if you did not”
How Will you argue with Jesus , that He got it wrong, because works were not needed?
it doesn’t matter how you argue with us, on this forum, it’s how you justify yourself to Him that matters.
It is not a good look if you ignored most of what you were told to do , with easy believism OSAS, or faith alone without charitable Works.

 

[d taylor]

-​

Eternal Life salvation, the life of God was never meant for satan or demons or fallen angels. The idea that works are part of a person believing in Jesus and in-turn becoming a permanent born again child of God. Is a lie from satan, appealing to mans sinful nature, that they can bring about the life of God by works.

 

[Soyeong]

Too many threads follow a logic “ its salvation by faith” as if nothing else matters, or as though “ faith” renders works “ unnecessary” using “ either/ or “ logic. One or other.

The problem with all threads like this is disagreement on the meaning of words, so no surprise a different conclusion is reached.
At a simple level even the devil believes Jesus is Lord , so faith is certainly more than intellectual assent.
It is clearly not enough to “ confess” you believe Jesus is Lord, , since the devil also does that. There is clearly more to it than that.

I recommend all read the “ salvation controversy” by Jimmy akin that highlights how many of the words of soteriology are used differently by factions differently, and are part of the reason they do not agree. Words like “ faith” “ justification” and so on are used differently . Suffice to say one section of Lutheranism achieved an accord with the Holy See on salvation , once They had agreed a meaning of the word “faith” which is not just intellectual assent and includes charity.

Another aspect of the false soteriology of many post reformation factions is an error in simple logic.
Any student of logic can attest “ necessary“ is not the same as “ sufficient”.

“ Salvation by works” is a false misrepresentation , which implies works can be “ sufficient “ for salvation which is simply not so, but Works can still be “necessary” !!! even though never sufficient.

The failure to recognise the difference between “ necessary” and “ sufficient” is why many post reformation groups wrongly take an “ either or “ view of salvation, not a correct “ both and “ view.
It is also why false doctrines like OSAS proliferate.

Faith , as intellectual assent is not enough. We are commanded to do many things As ordinances.

Such as Sheep and goats ( charitable works)
or John 6 ( the Eucharist ) tells you what happens if you do not do them.
but none of what we do is sufficient to merit salvation , so this is not salvation by works.
But we are clearly told what happens if we don’t ! So works are still necessary,
( there are many more ordnances , but the above will do as example)

In the end nothing we do is good enough, and we are saved by grace , which is also why until the race is run you cannot know for sure.
that is why salvation in the bible has components of past , present and future, using the text “ were saved” “are saved” “ will be saved”
Jesus on the cross made our salvation possible, we still have free will, and we must cooperate to be saved. We can also have faith that is a seed that grows quickly , then dies in the parable of the sowers, or is consumed by weeds.

If salvation were just the result of a one off statement of intellectual assent, the bible would only need to be 30 words long! It isn’t. we are asked to do many things. We have free will everyday to do them.

So all of you readers, today were you a sheep or a goat?
What did you do in charitable works? Did you take a valid Eucharist To be “ raised up at the last day” or do you “ have no life in you”.

It could be likened to a job interview.
The experience and qualifications get you an interview (so these are necessary)
They do not get you the job because none of them are sufficient
.
Its down to the discretion of the interviewer who gets the job.
The just judge will decide. But he will decide from among those who did what was necessary!

How will you answer when our Lord says to you” but I asked you to feed me, clothe me and visit me” but you didn’t!!
I made it clear what would happen if you did not”
How Will you argue with Jesus , that He got it wrong, because works were not needed?
it doesn’t matter how you argue with us, on this forum, it’s how you justify yourself to Him that matters.
It is not a good look if you ignored most of what you were told to do , with easy believism OSAS, or faith alone without charitable Works.

In Romans 2:13, Paul said that only doers of the law will be justified, so the issue is correctly understanding what exactly it is about choosing to be a doer of the law that means that only those who choose to do that will also be justified. It is clear that the reason is not in order to earn as a wage (Romans 4:1-5), however, there can be many other reasons for being a doer of the law, such as by following God's instructions we are indicating that we trust Him to correctly guide us, and it is by that faith that we are justified. Our desire clouds our judgement so that by ourselves we can't be sure if something is truly good or if we just think that it is good because we desire it, so we. have the choice of leaning on our own understanding of right and wrong that is influenced by our desire or we can trust God with all of our heart to correct divide through right and wrong through His law, and it is by that same faith that we are justified (Proverbs 3:1-6).

 

[Clare73]

In Romans 2:13, Paul said that only doers of the law will be justified,

Which in context is demonstrating the sinfulness of all Jews because no one kept the law to God's standards (Ro 3:20), therefore, all who relied on the law were under its curse (Gal 3:10).

 

[timothyu]

Both Jesus and before that the Father gave us basically only two rules. Put the will of God ahead of our own will, and His will is we love all as self. Pretty simple. The rest plays out accordingly. Simplifies the whole process and allows the movement to easily spread rather than tie it down to individual institutions who want to gather a resourceful following restricted to ritual rather than spread like seeds on the wind.

 

[Soyeong]

Which in context is demonstrating the sinfulness of all Jews because no one kept the law to God's standards (Ro 3:20), therefore, all who relied on the law were under its curse (Gal 3:10).

In context, Paul said in Romans 2:6-7 that those who persist in doing good will be given eternal life and said nothing about no one persisting in doing good or being doers of the law to God's standard. Many people in the Bible are described as being righteous and doers of the law, such as Zechariah and Elizabeth (Luke 1:5-6).

According to Deuteronomy 27-28, those who rely on the Law of God will be blessed while those who do not rely on it will be cursed, so do you agree or disagree? Jesus quoted three times from Deuteronomy in order to defeat the temptations of Satan, so he affirmed its authority. Paul also considered the OT to be Scripture and quoted many times from it in order to support what he said, so he should not be interpret as arguing against Deuteronomy. Furthermore, in Acts 17:11, the Bereans were praised because they diligently tested everything that Paul said against OT Scripture to see if what he said is true, so according to that precedent, saying something contrary to OT Scripture is the standard by which we should reject it, which again means that you should either reject what Paul said or you should uphold the NT by rejecting your interpretation of what he said.

 

[Clare73]

In context, Paul said in Romans 2:6-7 that those who persist in doing good

In context of Ro 2:1-16, where Paul is discussing the second of three principles that govern God's judgment at the final judgment (v.16):
1) according to truth (v. 2),
2) according to deeds (vv. 6-11),
3) according to the light a person has (vv. 12-15),
he is laying the groundwork for his demonstration of the guilt of all Jews (vv. 17-29), as he had demonstrated the guilt of all Gentiles (Ro 1:18-32), thus locking up all men in unrighteousness and sin (Ro 3:9-10, Ro 11:30).

"Persist in doing good" means live a perfect life, never coming short of the law in any way (an offer only to Adam, not to sinners, for whom righteousness is not by deeds, but by faith).

will be given eternal life and said nothing about no one persisting in doing good or being doers of the law to God's standard. Many people in the Bible are described as being righteous and doers of the law, such as Zechariah and Elizabeth (Luke 1:5-6).

Incomplete and contrary to historical orthodox Christian doctrine.

The OT is God's incomplete revelation which God completes in the NT.
The use of "righteousness" regarding the OT saints/doers of the law is not the equivalent of Abraham's "imputed righteousness" by faith (Ge 15:6, Ro 4:3),
The completion of the OT revelation in the NT regarding the law is that it was not given for righteousness, it was given to reveal sin (Ro 3:20), that righteousness is from God only, by faith (Ro 1:17, Ro 3:21, Ro 9:30).

NT 101:

Eternal life is not by law keeping, it is only by faith (Ro 4:2-3, Ge 15:6).

 

[timothyu]

Eternal life is not by law keeping, it is only by faith

The laws merely show how God's will runs contrary to our own, aiding us in making a choice who to follow, Him or ourselves.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I am not sure this would be counted as simplistic, I hope not.
But I do believe that salvation/the new birth is 100% the work of God of which we are the object of His will and work. I do not see where I contributed anything to my actual salvation. I wrote a book years ago entitled "Suddenly Saved" where I lay out how getting saved is akin to falling off a log, or more accurately, a fish getting caught in a net. The gospel is preached into us without our permission. The light enters our eyes before we know it is coming, and the words enter our hearts and we are suddenly aware. I do not see any difference between "revelation" and awareness. I think of Romans 10:17 as meaning:
Faith comes by revelation, and revelation comes by a word spoken into you by Christ.
I draw much of this concept from my own conversion.
Many years ago I would hear my Christian friends recount their salvation experiences. They went to an alter, they made a commitment, they "asked Jesus into their heart," they prayed a prayer. But I could not share any such story because I do not recall ever having such an experience. Because of my interest in the predictive aspect of the occult, I had been reading after Hal Lindsey and some other Christian prophecy teachers. Of course they were heavy with the message of the gospel. I was not looking for that. I did not care about sin, salvation, or the gospel. But suddenly, after being "exposed" that light, without thought or choice... I just knew it was all true. I did not sit around and ponder and debate with myself about whether I was going to make a "decision" for Christ. I cannot tell you when the transition happened or how. It was not the result of a choice or a decision. I did not think about it or weigh the options. I did not pray anything or even try to believe something by force of will. I was just suddenly aware that Jesus died for my sins, and that it was all true. IOWs, it appeared that I was "suddenly saved."
thanks

 

[Soyeong]

In context of Ro 2:1-16, where Paul is discussing the second of three principles that govern God's judgment at the final judgment (v.16):
1) according to truth (v. 2),
2) according to deeds (vv. 6-11),
3) according to the light a person has (vv. 12-15),
he is laying the groundwork for his demonstration of the guilt of all Jews (vv. 17-29), as he had demonstrated the guilt of all Gentiles (Ro 1:18-32), thus locking up all men in unrighteousness and sin (Ro 3:9-10, Ro 11:30).

"Persist in doing good" means live a perfect life, never coming short of the law in any way (an offer only to Adam, not to sinners, for whom righteousness is not by deeds, but by faith).

When Paul referred to those who persist in doing good being given 6ternal life or those who are doers of the law being justified, there is nothing in that indicates that he is speaking about a group of people of which no one is a member. On the contrary, in Romans 2:13-15, Paul spoke about Gentiles by nature being doers of the law, and in Romans 2:25-26, the way to recognize that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to God's law, which is the same way to tell for a Jew (Deuteronomy 30:6). In Romans 2:17-29, Paul did not speak against following what they were teaching, but rather he was speaking against those who were showing hypocrisy.

Furthermore, Paul did not say anything not did he say about needing to have perfect obedience. God's law came with instructions for what to do when His people sinned, so perfect obedience has never been His standard for us. In Deuteronomy 30:11-20, it says that God's law is not too difficult to obey and obedience bring life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and curse so choose life! So it was presented as a possibility and as a choice, not as the need to have perfect obedience, and in Romans 10:5-8, it references this passage as the word of faith that we proclaim, but you want to deny the word of faith that we proclaim by arguing that God's law is too difficult to obey.

Incomplete and contrary to historical orthodox Christian doctrine.

The OT is God's incomplete revelation which God completes in the NT.
The use of "righteousness" regarding the OT saints/doers of the law is not the equivalent of Abraham's "imputed righteousness" by faith (Ge 15:6, Ro 4:3),
The completion of the OT revelation in the NT regarding the law is that it was not given for righteousness, it was given to reveal sin (Ro 3:20), that righteousness is from God only, by faith (Ro 1:17, Ro 3:21, Ro 9:30).

The way that we choose to live testifies about whether or not we have faith in God to correctly divide between right and wrong through His law, so again in regard to Romans 2:13, the reason why those who choose to be doers of the law are the same group as those who will be justified is not because being justified Is earned as the result of being doers of the law, but choosing to be a doer of the law expresses our faith and it is only by that same faith that we are justified.

In Romans 3:21-22, it does not say that the Law and the Prophets testify that the righteousness of God comes through perfect obedience, but rather the only way to become righteous that is testified about in the Law and the Prophets is through faith in Christ, so the use of "righteousness" regarding OT doers of the law is the equivalent of Abraham's "imputed righteousness" by faith, especially because he was also a doer of the law by the same faith (Genesis 26:4-5). To describe someone as having a character trait is to describe them as being someone who chooses to take actions that are in accordance with that trait, such as to say that God is righteous is to say that He does what is righteous, so becoming imputed with righteousness by faith is becoming someone who does what is righteous in obedience to God's law through the same faith. Righteousness was never the result of our deeds as if it were earned as a wage, but rather the same faith by which we are declared righteous is also expressed through being a doers of the law (Romans 3:31).

NT 101:

Eternal life is not by law keeping, it is only by faith (Ro 4:2-3, Ge 15:6).

In Matthew 19:17, Jesus said that the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's commandments, and in Luke 10:25-28, he said that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments, which is in accordance with verses like Romans 2:6-7, there those who persist in doing good will be given eternal life, Romans 6:19-23, where obeying God's law is the content of His gift of eternal life, Exodus 33:13, where God's law is the way to know Him, which is eternal life, Hebrews 5:9, where Jesus is a source of eternal salvation for those who obey Him, and in Revelation 22:14, where those who obeyed God's commandments are given the right to eat from the Tree of Life. None of these verses indicate that they are speaking about a group of people of which no one is a member or indicate anything about earning eternal life as a wage as the result of perfect obedience, but rather they are speaking about the way to have faith. Again it boils down to whether we are going to choose to do what is right in our own eyes or have faith in God to correctly guide us through His law.

 

[Clare73]

I am not sure this would be counted as simplistic, I hope not.
But I do believe that salvation/the new birth is 100% the work of God of which we are the object of His will and work. I do not see where I contributed anything to my actual salvation. I wrote a book years ago entitled "Suddenly Saved" where I lay out how getting saved is akin to falling off a log, or more accurately, a fish getting caught in a net. The gospel is preached into us without our permission. The light enters our eyes before we know it is coming, and the words enter our hearts and we are suddenly aware. I do not see any difference between "revelation" and awareness. I think of Romans 10:17 as meaning:
Faith comes by revelation, and revelation comes by a word spoken into you by Christ.
I draw much of this concept from my own conversion.
Many years ago I would hear my Christian friends recount their salvation experiences. They went to an alter, they made a commitment, they "asked Jesus into their heart," they prayed a prayer. But I could not share any such story because I do not recall ever having such an experience. Because of my interest in the predictive aspect of the occult, I had been reading after Hal Lindsey and some other Christian prophecy teachers. Of course

they were heavy with the message of the gospel. I was not looking for that. I did not care about sin, salvation, or the gospel. But suddenly, after being "exposed" that light, without thought or choice... I just knew it was all true. I did not sit around and ponder and debate with myself about whether I was going to make a "decision" for Christ. I cannot tell you when the transition happened or how. It was not the result of a choice or a decision. I did not think about it or weigh the options. I did not pray anything or even try to believe something by force of will. I was just suddenly aware that Jesus died for my sins, and that it was all true. IOWs, it appeared that I was "suddenly saved."
thanks

It was very similar for me. . .however, the issue of their truth was on the table, and it was settled by the power of them giving me to know beyond any doubt they were indeed the word of God, from which everything salvific then followed for me.

 

[Mountainmike]

Eternal life is not by law keeping, it is only by faith (Ro 4:2-3, Ge 15:6).

It is disappointing you do not address the core topic of the thread.

The meaning of "faith" is one of the questions begged because intellectual assent is not enough.
The devil too confesses Jesus is Lord!

So what do YOU mean by faith? Define it.

Many ordinances are given which are to do works, none of which are sufficient, but many are stated as necessary.
So unless your view of faith includes such works, it is not faith alone.

Indeed it is by grace we are saved. Nothing we do is good enough, including our faith.

Or are you the one who can move mountains by faith greater than a mustard seed?

The narrow "law keeping" view of works was what Jesus attacked the pharisees for:
but Jesus clearly expected works of charity as Sheep and Goats proved.
Nor are we automatons. Faith does not make us robots.
We have free will every day to do or not do. Obey commandments or ignore them.
So until the race is run, nobody can say, indeed it is the just judge who decides..

That is why the bible says variously "were saved " "are saved " "will be saved". Components of past, present and future.

That is what the thread was about.
Over simplistic views of "faith" alone. Which you echo again with "only faith"
Just As your last statement

 

[Clare73]

It is disappointing you do not address the core topic of the thread.
The meaning of "faith" is one of the questions begged because intellectual assent is not enough.
The devil too confesses Jesus is Lord!
So what do YOU mean by faith? Define it.
Many ordinances are given which are to do works, none of which are sufficient, but many are stated as necessary.
So unless your view of faith includes such works, it is not faith alone.

Saving faith is believing in and trusting on the person and atoning work (blood, Ro 3:25) of Jesus Christ for remission of sin, which saves from God's condemnation (Ro 5:18) and wrath (Ro 5:9) on the descendants of Adam.

That salvation, and justification (sentence of acquittal of guilt; forensic righteousness), are by rebirth and faith alone, not by works (merit) of man (Ro 3:28, Eph 2:8-9, Ro 1:17, Ro 3:22, Ro 4:5, Ro 4:13, Ro 10:6, Gal 2:16, Php 3:9, Heb 11:7).

Indeed it is by grace we are saved. Nothing we do is good enough, including our faith.

We are saved (made righteous) through faith alone, not by works.(Eph 2:8, Ro 8:30).

Rebirth (Jn 3:3-8) and faith are a work of God (Php 1:29, Ac 13:48, Ac 18:27, 2 Pe 1:1, Ro 12:3). . .and they do save (Eph 2:8-9).

Or are you the one who can move mountains by faith greater than a mustard seed?
The narrow "law keeping" view of works was what Jesus attacked the pharisees for:
but Jesus clearly expected works of charity as Sheep and Goats proved.
Nor are we automatons. Faith does not make us robots.
We have free will every day to do or not do. Obey commandments or ignore them.
So until the race is run, nobody can say, indeed it is the just judge who decides..
That is why the bible says variously "were saved " "are saved " "will be saved". Components of past, present and future.

Yes, salvation is past (new birth through faith, not by works, Eph 2:8-9),
present (Christian life; i.e, obedience in the Holy Spirit which leads to righteousness leading to holiness, Ro 6:16, 19)
and future (resurrection, Ro 8:23, Php 3:21).

That is what the thread was about.
Over simplistic views of "faith" alone. Which you echo again with "only faith"
Just As your last statement

 

[SavedByGrace3]

We often look at salvation from the recipient side. What do we need to do?
If we look at faith from the other side of the "equation.
"God made Jesus Lord and Christ. In doing so He gave Jesus all the authority and power required to save those who call on His name.
Not to be flippant, but, as with the "Ghostbusters" lingo, if you need to be saved "who you gonna call?"
Jesus!
Because Jesus died for us, we belong to Him. He purchased us with His own blood.
There is no checklist of things (in addition to His blood) that need to be done. There is the call to Him. It is not like "You need to call on His name, but, oh ya, His name and blood are not enough... you have to do these things to."
The name and blood are enough. We diminish the blood and name when we add things.

 

[Mountainmike]

Saving faith is believing in and trusting on the person and atoning work (blood, Ro 3:25) of Jesus Christ for remission of sin, which saves from God's condemnation (Ro 5:18) and wrath (Ro 5:9) on the descendants of Adam.

That salvation, and justification (sentence of acquittal of guilt; forensic righteousness), are by rebirth and faith alone, not by works (merit) of man (Eph 2:8-9, Ro 3:28).

Rebirth (Jn 3:3-8) and faith are a work of God (Php 1:29, Ac 13:48, Ac 18:27, 2 Pe 1:1, Ro 12:3). . .and they do save (Eph 2:8-9).

Yes, salvation is past (new birth through faith, not by works, Eph 2:8-9),
present (Christian life; i.e, obedience in the Holy Spirit which leads to righteousness leading to holiness (Ro 6:16, 19)
and future (resurrection, Ro 8:23, Php 3:21).

But your post is false. You repeated again “ only by faith”

OurLord clearly and unequivocally demands works, on which He conditions eternal life.
I gave you examples.
You have freewill to do them Or not.
Christ on the cross made salvation possible not inevitable, you must cooperate Too.
Doing what He asks is necessary, so he says,

I gave you examples.
you are doing EXACTLY what the thread protests.
Over simplistic Selective proof texting , ignoring all that does not agree with you. Will you quote verses at him?
my suggestion is you do ALL you are asked. Not ignore the bits you don’t like.


So when the just judge says to you “ why did you not feed me, clothe me or visit me as I asked?”
You are away with the goats.
Will you argue with Him that He does not know what the bible means?

 

[Clare73]

But your post is false. You repeated again “ only by faith”

You must show the error of God's word in Eph 2:8-9.

OurLord clearly and unequivocally demands works, on which He conditions eternal life.

Read the post again. . .hint: look for "obedience."

 

[Soyeong]

We often look at salvation from the recipient side. What do we need to do?
If we look at faith from the other side of the "equation.
"God made Jesus Lord and Christ. In doing so He gave Jesus all the authority and power required to save those who call on His name.
Not to be flippant, but, as with the "Ghostbusters" lingo, if you need to be saved "who you gonna call?"
Jesus!
Because Jesus died for us, we belong to Him. He purchased us with His own blood.
There is no checklist of things (in addition to His blood) that need to be done. There is the call to Him. It is not like "You need to call on His name, but, oh ya, His name and blood are not enough... you have to do these things to."
The name and blood are enough. We diminish the blood and name when we add things.

You seem to be missing that the way to call on the name of the Lord is through what we do. It is declaring that YHVH is our God and that our goal is to become like in through partaking in His nature. God is holy, righteous, good, loving, just, merciful, faithful, and so forth and all of the names of God reveal aspects of His nature that we are seeking by faith to emulate. In Hebrews 1:3, the Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact image of His nature, so we can't call on his name instead of acting in accordance with his name through faith. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to unify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law in accordance with his example of how he expressed His nature is the way to believe in what he accomplished through the cross (Acts 21:20), which is not adding anything to his blood.