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Outreach Forum Rules?

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talitha

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According to the "New CF" the members of each forum are to come up with forum-specific rules enforceable by the mods.

I want to be quick to point out that the Outreach forums need to maintain the definition of being "Outreach" oriented, and thus consist of only Christians answering the questions/struggles/prayer requests of nonChristians.

If I have posted in an inappropriate place, please move this!

blessings
tal
 

Skaloop

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I want to be quick to point out that the Outreach forums need to maintain the definition of being "Outreach" oriented, and thus consist of only Christians answering the questions/struggles/prayer requests of nonChristians.

I disagree. Far too often, information is presented that is, at best misleading or mistaken, and at worst outright lying. Usually the former, but in any case, those seeking outreach are being given false information. And because of the strict "Christians-only" answer policy, this false information cannot be corrected (at least, not without violating the rules and receiving warnings/penalties). I myself have many times had to hold my tongue as false information was presented., with no real recourse to rectify those errors.

I do agree that, for those seeking answers about Christianity, constant debate between believers and non-believers would be less than ideal. On the other hand, though, I think anyone, Christian or not, should be able to step in when necessary.

It certainly is a fine line, though. Yes, only Christians should be answering the Christian-related questions. But there are many sorts of questions that can be readily answered by non-Christians as well, and they should be free to do so.
 
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But the purpose of the forum is for Christians to answer questions about Christianity from non-Christians. Any other questions should probably be somewhere else - true?

My only rule request is that there be NO DEBATE. There are 1000 other areas for debate on CF. Those with honest questions get buried beneath the regurgitated tripe from skeptical websites. :sigh:
 
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Skaloop

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But the purpose of the forum is for Christians to answer questions about Christianity from non-Christians. Any other questions should probably be somewhere else - true?

My only rule request is that there be NO DEBATE. There are 1000 other areas for debate on CF. Those with honest questions get buried beneath the regurgitated tripe from skeptical websites. :sigh:

But usually, the nature of the question is fine for this forum. I'll agree that it shouldn't be a debate forum, but on the other hand, we should be able to rectify misinformation.

For instance, say a seeker has a question regarding the Christian view of evolution. I'm quite content to let Christians answer how evolution can or cannot fit in with their faith. But if they say something that is patently wrong (such as "Darwin recanted his theory on his death bed" or "it violates the second law of thermodynamics" or "evolution is random chance"), I think anyone, Christian or non, should be able to set the record straight. Without, of course, letting things slide into a debate.

I'm not saying to let non-Christians answer any and all questions. Rather, a little leeway depending on the context of what they are speaking on.
 
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Key

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I disagree. Far too often, information is presented that is, at best misleading or mistaken, and at worst outright lying. Usually the former, but in any case, those seeking outreach are being given false information. And because of the strict "Christians-only" answer policy, this false information cannot be corrected (at least, not without violating the rules and receiving warnings/penalties). I myself have many times had to hold my tongue as false information was presented., with no real recourse to rectify those errors.

This of course is, is wrong information based on what you have chosen to believe, which is not the Christian faith, as such, ideally, you will disagree with any answer you do not like.

Now. in the off chance, the slim and ever so minute possibility that you might be an unbiased observer, then your input might not be such a bad thing, however, to open the door in the direction you seek, is to just make this another debate forum. This is something you can not deny, and even given the restraint of some non-Christians this restraint does not apply to all, nor does maturity, or even logical rational thinking.

These attributes have been validated on GA and Creation Evolution, that not everyone that claims to know what they are talking about, does. And Atheism does not make one correct on subjects of science or things of scientific development.

As such, this is a door better left not opened, as it stands we get enough trolls here in QBNC because of the sheer amount of trolls that used to go to GA are not coming here, because of the 100 post limit. The last thing that is needed in this situation is to add hecklers, and debaters to the list of things that people have to deal with here.

I do agree that, for those seeking answers about Christianity, constant debate between believers and non-believers would be less than ideal. On the other hand, though, I think anyone, Christian or not, should be able to step in when necessary.

I would have to respectfully disagree, because that generates debate, and that is GA realm, if they feel the need then they can move on to GA, or one of the other debate forums, this is not the place for such things.

This is an outreach, and truth be told, the people like yourself are not involved in learning about the Christian faith in a positive matter where they want to know more, but only seek to challenge it, as such, you have not viable place in an outreach environment.

And yes, it would just stir up debate, and there is enough problems with that as it is, with the vast amount of trolls that do already come here. We don't need to add more "message board atheist" to the mix.

It certainly is a fine line, though. Yes, only Christians should be answering the Christian-related questions. But there are many sorts of questions that can be readily answered by non-Christians as well, and they should be free to do so.

And it is commentary like this, that makes me more then sure you have no idea what you are talking about, and why your desire to try and "correct" people is a ruse.

Let me explain, You do not believe in Christ, or follow him, as such, anyone seeking answers about following Christ, should not be going to you for guidance, because th truth is, it's not something you can explain, or give guidance to in an experienced manner.

It is like people who do not have children trying to teach people how to raise them. This might sound all great and full of book knowledge, but they really have no idea what they are talking about, because they just do not have the first hand experience.

Somethings, sure, book knowledge might work, but Faith, and Christ is not one of them, neither is children.

Would you come to me to give you answers about Atheism?

But usually, the nature of the question is fine for this forum. I'll agree that it shouldn't be a debate forum, but on the other hand, we should be able to rectify misinformation.

Man.. you just really love that "On the other hand"...

Sure, but who validates what is correct and what is incorrect?

You?

You just know that this is absolute truth?

Given the amount of people on this forum that are Christians, and embrace Technology, as well as possess many degrees in scientific fields, the need for some atheist to offer "correction" is just no there.

Unless you of course you are under the impression that because you are an Atheist that you just know this science stuff better then any Christian, and if that is the case, we don't need that level of Ego in Outreach.

For instance, say a seeker has a question regarding the Christian view of evolution. I'm quite content to let Christians answer how evolution can or cannot fit in with their faith. But if they say something that is patently wrong (such as "Darwin recanted his theory on his death bed" or "it violates the second law of thermodynamics" or "evolution is random chance"), I think anyone, Christian or non, should be able to set the record straight. Without, of course, letting things slide into a debate.

Your right... Christians can correct this issue,, as such.. the need for the "or not" is not there, as Christians can fully take care of that little issue for you, outside help is not needed.

I'm not saying to let non-Christians answer any and all questions. Rather, a little leeway depending on the context of what they are speaking on.

I believe, if they offer addition to the existing question in a positive manner, I have no problem with it, the issue is, opening the door is the biggest issue. As has been proven in the past, people can not refrain themselves from hostile responses or irking on debates.

If non-Christians had acted with honor and respect in the past and continued to do so, I am sure such rules would not be needed, they have not, as such, the rules and restraints are needed.

Sadly.. After all is said and done, The actions of the many have ruined it for the few.

Maybe someday, when the Non-Christians that come here, have proved themselves respectful, and that in fact they can act with honor and decency in these situations, then the rules can change.

But, until then, the rules have to remain as they are.

God Bless

Key.
 
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Digit

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I disagree. Far too often, information is presented that is, at best misleading or mistaken, and at worst outright lying. Usually the former, but in any case, those seeking outreach are being given false information. And because of the strict "Christians-only" answer policy, this false information cannot be corrected (at least, not without violating the rules and receiving warnings/penalties). I myself have many times had to hold my tongue as false information was presented., with no real recourse to rectify those errors.

I do agree that, for those seeking answers about Christianity, constant debate between believers and non-believers would be less than ideal. On the other hand, though, I think anyone, Christian or not, should be able to step in when necessary.

It certainly is a fine line, though. Yes, only Christians should be answering the Christian-related questions. But there are many sorts of questions that can be readily answered by non-Christians as well, and they should be free to do so.
If they wish to hear both sides, they can post in the GA section. Outreach if for Christians only, to answer questions unhindered by debate or nitpicking.

If we allowed both, then Outreach wouldn't be Outreach. It would be GA.

Digit
 
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Digit

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But usually, the nature of the question is fine for this forum. I'll agree that it shouldn't be a debate forum, but on the other hand, we should be able to rectify misinformation.

For instance, say a seeker has a question regarding the Christian view of evolution. I'm quite content to let Christians answer how evolution can or cannot fit in with their faith. But if they say something that is patently wrong (such as "Darwin recanted his theory on his death bed" or "it violates the second law of thermodynamics" or "evolution is random chance"), I think anyone, Christian or non, should be able to set the record straight. Without, of course, letting things slide into a debate.

I'm not saying to let non-Christians answer any and all questions. Rather, a little leeway depending on the context of what they are speaking on.
Rectifying perceived misinformation will turn into a debate. As you see in GA. Sorry but there is no two ways about it. Either it's Christians answer a single non-belivers post, or it's deleted on the whole as a forum and we stick to GA.

Digit
 
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talitha

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Outreach needs to be different than GA.

Another rule suggestion from me:

No questions about Origins - put those in the "Origins" folder. Outreach is not about Origins; it's about the faith called Christianity.
 
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Skaloop

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And it is commentary like this, that makes me more then sure you have no idea what you are talking about, and why your desire to try and "correct" people is a ruse.

Let me explain, You do not believe in Christ, or follow him, as such, anyone seeking answers about following Christ, should not be going to you for guidance, because th truth is, it's not something you can explain, or give guidance to in an experienced manner.

It is like people who do not have children trying to teach people how to raise them. This might sound all great and full of book knowledge, but they really have no idea what they are talking about, because they just do not have the first hand experience.

Somethings, sure, book knowledge might work, but Faith, and Christ is not one of them, neither is children.

Would you come to me to give you answers about Atheism?

I'm just gonna address these parts. First of all, I am not suggesting that we non-Christians answer Christ-related questions. Even though many non-believers are very well versed in Biblical matters. What I am suggesting is that basic factual errors can be corrected when made.

To stick with your children analogy, you are right in that non-parents are not great sources of advice on parenting. However, if a parent-to-be asks about vehicle safety for babies, and a parent answers that it is safe to put a toddler in the front seat of a car with airbags, then I, as a non-parent, can correct that misinformation.

I would never try to answer a question here regarding what Jesus might have thought on a certain issue.
 
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Digit

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I'm just gonna address these parts. First of all, I am not suggesting that we non-Christians answer Christ-related questions. Even though many non-believers are very well versed in Biblical matters. What I am suggesting is that basic factual errors can be corrected when made.

To stick with your children analogy, you are right in that non-parents are not great sources of advice on parenting. However, if a parent-to-be asks about vehicle safety for babies, and a parent answers that it is safe to put a toddler in the front seat of a car with airbags, then I, as a non-parent, can correct that misinformation.

I would never try to answer a question here regarding what Jesus might have thought on a certain issue.
We already have non-Christians posting in here, and it's not just about correcting perceived factual errors. In addition, that's a very relative term, as there are 'facts' that we do not agree on.

Either Outreach stays Christian only, or it's dissolved and we have GA, as that is what will happen in Outreach, regardless of forum rules or not, if we allow both belief systems to mix. What you are suggesting is not Outreach at all. It's a forum we already have called General Apologetics. The very specific nature of Outreach is for a Christian to be able to address a question by a non-beliver, without having to defend their position against numerous attacks and perceived corrections.

The two are mutually exclusive.

Digit
 
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talitha

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Digit said:
Either Outreach stays Christian only, or it's dissolved and we have GA, as that is what will happen in Outreach, regardless of forum rules or not, if we allow both belief systems to mix. What you are suggesting is not Outreach at all. It's a forum we already have called General Apologetics. The very specific nature of Outreach is for a Christian to be able to address a question by a non-beliver, without having to defend their position against numerous attacks and perceived corrections.
EXACTLY.
 
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WarEagle

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According to the "New CF" the members of each forum are to come up with forum-specific rules enforceable by the mods.

I want to be quick to point out that the Outreach forums need to maintain the definition of being "Outreach" oriented, and thus consist of only Christians answering the questions/struggles/prayer requests of nonChristians.

If I have posted in an inappropriate place, please move this!

blessings
tal

The problem is that, under the new rules, all someone has to do is to say that they're Christian and they are. And we can't question that in any way.

Of course, I'm not sure how that's different from the old rules, but they seem to be more honest about it this time.
 
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talitha

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Of course, I'm not sure how that's different from the old rules, but they seem to be more honest about it this time.
true.

Yeah, I have a problem with that. What it seems like to me is that it's okay for wolves to come in dressed like sheep, but it's NOT okay for the sheep to say - WARNING, that's a WOLF.
 
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heron

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No questions about Origins - put those in the "Origins" folder. Outreach is not about Origins; it's about the faith called Christianity.
That's a great solution. We should put a link to that area in the stickies, and make it appear as bold as a heading so people will notice (and mods won't spend all their time redirecting).


First of all, I am not suggesting that we non-Christians answer Christ-related questions. Even though many non-believers are very well versed in Biblical matters. What I am suggesting is that basic factual errors can be corrected when made.
I agree with you on that, especially in consideration of the new policies. Usually a thread gets responses from three or four Christians, and the mix doesn't represent the whole of Christendom very well... the odds of getting people who know details about the topic can be low, since many knowledegable in an area will hover in that specific forum area.

If they wish to hear both sides, they can post in the GA section. Outreach if for Christians only, to answer questions unhindered by debate or nitpicking.
Since all the forums will be open now, it will be wise to reroute discussions that are baited attacks rather than honest personal questions.
I think anyone, Christian or non, should be able to set the record straight. Without, of course, letting things slide into a debate.
One of the reasons peopel are nervous about this idea, is that they have seen discussions slide out of control before they're corrected. Visitors have entered with blatant slams against Christianity, sometimes without reading the whole thread. Some visitors have recruited other visitors to other religions.

So we need to establish some specifics about what visitors and even longstanding non-Christian members can say in the outreach area. I agree that secular topics of discussion should be more open, and I think sometimes they have ended up that way without anyone noticing... for instance, nonchristians talking about a TV show they saw on the Ark, or geological evidence of ancient floods. The mods have let non-C posts things like this slide, just to be reasonable.

I feel it's important that Christians respect non-Christians' input enough to have a real discussion; sometimes too many rules put the visitors in a defensive stance. It is not about us feeling we know more, or wanting to exclude others from our club, but it often appears that way.
 
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Key

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I feel it's important that Christians respect non-Christians' input enough to have a real discussion; sometimes too many rules put the visitors in a defensive stance. It is not about us feeling we know more, or wanting to exclude others from our club, but it often appears that way.

We don't... we just say that there is a time and a place for such matters...

We have Hobbies, Music, Heath, movies, ETC, ETC.. and all other topics that are open to "All Members".. there is NO exclusion involved in those areas .. It is a place where an Atheist, Muslim and a Christian can discuss what movies they saw, what they liked, and all other kinds of things. Full inclusion for all members.

We have GA where if you want to debate and try and shout down our religion on OUR Message board, you can.. we have given this place for you to do that.. just for the Non-Christian to come in and tell us our religion is wrong...

You will NOT find that on any other message board that is directed towards a world view or belief , be it Atheism, Islam, or any other, as far as I have seen, CF is the most open and welcoming forum of it's type.

So yes.. we make the Atheist feel welcome, they have a home and a place here.. some have been here for many years.. why... because we welcome them to stay...

Just QBNC.. is not the place for open debate like that...

God Bless

Key
 
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Key

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I'm just gonna address these parts. First of all, I am not suggesting that we non-Christians answer Christ-related questions. Even though many non-believers are very well versed in Biblical matters.

I'll say that many of them seem to have "book knoeldge" but when it comes to practical application they seem very Misinformed..

What I am suggesting is that basic factual errors can be corrected when made.

That would again.. be an issue of what you consider a factual error..

Let me give you an example.. in Creation/Evolution forum.. someone told me that their definition of Evolution was change in the frequency of genetic traits.

This of course is wrong.. but they believed that this was a correct definition for Evolution.

As such, to depend on what someone else may assume is correct is not a good policy, and never more so then when that someone else does not like or agree with the point you are seeking to bring forth.

If we are providing misleading or incorrect data.. other Christians will step up to plate. either in the forums themselves or we will send a private message to correct them.

Now.. also note.. you are not hindered from sending a PM to the poster to correct their data.. and you are more then welcome to do so, but to correct them on the forum.. is not a good idea as it will only generate strife, and we both know that.

To stick with your children analogy, you are right in that non-parents are not great sources of advice on parenting. However, if a parent-to-be asks about vehicle safety for babies, and a parent answers that it is safe to put a toddler in the front seat of a car with airbags, then I, as a non-parent, can correct that misinformation.

Fair enough of a point..
But there is more then one "parent" here.. and I believe that this is one of those areas.. where the other "parents" will do all they can to correct that bit of info.. as this is the life of a child.. the need or nessity for a non-parent is however sadly nonexistent.

I would never try to answer a question here regarding what Jesus might have thought on a certain issue.

It's a tricky line in the sand.. and one that is better left where it is..

As I said.. given the problems in the past... there is no benefit for opening this door.

God Bless

Key
 
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WarEagle

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true.

Yeah, I have a problem with that. What it seems like to me is that it's okay for wolves to come in dressed like sheep, but it's NOT okay for the sheep to say - WARNING, that's a WOLF.

That's exactly what's going to happen. You're going to get people coming in here spouting off all sorts of false doctrines and they're going to be allowed to do that as much as they want, as long as they have a Christian avatar (whether they're actually Christian or not) and we're the ones who are going to be made out to be the bad guys because we're standing up for sound doctrine.

I mean, think of what's going to happen in "questions by non-Christians" forums when some kid asks a question about Jesus, sincerely seeking Him, and a Mormon comes in and says, "0h yeah, Jesus was this guy who became a god by following Heavenly Father's rules. He and his wife live on some planet..."

And nobody's going to be able to correct that because there'll be no debating and we won't be able to point out that it isn't a Biblical teaching because that would be against the rules, implying that the Mormon isn't a Christian.

What was hinted at before, is now shouted by th leadership here. What was rumor is now policy. While ChristianForums has always been a safe haven for heresy, it is now a clearinghouse for heresy.

If I had anything to say to Erwin about this, it would simply be that Jesus said that the gate is wide that leads to destruction. We're to be presenting the Gospel to the lost, not holding the gate open for them.

Bravo to those moderators who had the moral integrity to resign.
 
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