Out of the Grey

[Byfaithalone1]

Which is more challenging:

1. Living in a world where most things are black-and-white and few things are grey;

-Or-

2. Living in a world where most things are grey and few things are black-and-white?
​

Which perspective represents your overall world view?

BFA

 

[StormyOne]

lol neither... my worldview contains lots of colors.... black, white, grey, orange, red, blue.... and some others I've been asked not to mention.... good questions BFA

 

[VictorC]

Which is more challenging:

1. Living in a world where most things are black-and-white and few things are grey;

-Or-

2. Living in a world where most things are grey and few things are black-and-white?
​

Which perspective represents your overall world view?

BFA

"Black and White" are those things nailed down and codified as absolutes by an Authority Who knows more than I do.
"Gray" (grey?) refers to everything that isn't nailed down and codified as an absolute.

The challenge is in determining what's nailed down and what we have liberty in. That's the focus of my paradigm.

 

[Cribstyl]

Which is more challenging:

1. Living in a world where most things are black-and-white and few things are grey;

-Or-

2. Living in a world where most things are grey and few things are black-and-white?
​

Which perspective represents your overall world view?

BFA

#1....What's really important is most likely in black and white

 

[Byfaithalone1]

#1....What's really important is most likely in black and white

Crib, you've identified living in a world where most things are black-and-white as being the more challenging scenario of the two. As you consider this world view, what are the most challenging aspects for you?

BFA

 

[Byfaithalone1]

[Post deleted by BFA.]

 

[VictorC]

Are the nailed down subjects easier to grapple with than the ones that aren't?

Just the opposite, in my opinion. The very nature of this forum is to overcome dissention concerning those things which are nailed down.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

[Post deleted by BFA.]

 

[VictorC]

Is it possible that folks are passionate about nailed down things because they are anxious about what the world might look like if things weren't nailed down?

Wow. That was a confusing question.

It was confusing because it was sheer speculation, IMO.

Sorry. Let me try again, this time with an example:

If I am passionate that I must observe the seventh-day sabbath, am I passionate because it's true or because I'm afraid of the implications of it wasn't true?
​

I submit that it is easier to move toward that which is nailed down and more challenging to accept that many things are grey.

BFA

Your example is one of those that is nailed down, and isn't "gray" (grey?) at all. Scripture leaves no question concerning the disposition of the sabbath that was displaced for entrance into God's rest. Go back to what I had written before:

The challenge is in determining what's nailed down and what we have liberty in. That's the focus of my paradigm.

Without realizing it, you're engaged in the primary challenge I mentioned before. This isn't a gray area. Think about it - if the gray areas are those that we have liberty in, why would they be as much of a challenge as those things Scripture testifies about without room for dissention? If the sabbath has been relegated to a day to go to church, then it implys that the sabbath ordained by the law is gone, and we have the liberty to assemble on any day of the week we prefer.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

[Post deleted by BFA.]

 

[VictorC]

Despite my exceptional communication skills, you've somehow managed to miss my point.

I can only read what you write...

It's fair to say that my example wasn't the best. However, there is a deeper principle here that seems to ring true. If it is true that there are none who understand, why are individual believers so quick to believe that they have all the answers and that they alone hold the keys to all that is true. Does knowledge begin with understand how much you don't know? This is a much bigger topic than the individual example I provided.

I'm sure it is.

But I see that we don't share the same perspective. I consider the realm of the black-and-white as that area I don't have an opinion able to supercede that of a higher Authority. If it is codified, then it is incumbent on me to comprehend that code and its applicability to the specific subset I belong to. From there my attitude becomes one of submission to the answer that has been provided already.

No doubt your memories of me on CARM will tell you that this has been a long process, as it isn't immediately intuitive what nailed-down statements are to be applied to the church today. It is a challenge that defines a path much more difficult to follow than relegating certain things to the realm of "gray".

 

[VictorC]

Do humans have all the tools necessary to definitely distinguish between that which is nailed down and that which is not, with 100% accuracy?

I'm not willing to speculate over a vast realm you cannot define yourself.
Scripture doesn't address everything - I prefer to accept those things it does.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

[Post deleted by BFA.]

 

[VictorC]

My memories of you on CARM lead me to the conclusion that we are quite similar in our understanding, but quite different in our personalities and philosophies. I believe that is by design; that is the beauty of the body of Christ.

My journey is leading me to a place where (i) I am at peace with the fact that the world is divided on theology issues and yet God remains; (ii) I recognize my past propensity to misunderstand; and (iii) I accept that life is more about loving and less about knowing.

I am testing this hypothesis - perhaps there are fewer absolutes than I once thought.

Your belief of a design is confirmed in Ephesians 4:

11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,
12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,
13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;
14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,
15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head----Christ----
16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.

My vocation is technical (electrical engineering) and my views cause me to determine how a mechanism is designed to operate. The One Who designed it nailed down parts and pieces that show a massive forethought that some of us are in the catch-up mode trying to determine. There are others who fit into God's plan to address other aspects that we aren't attuned to. The goal of the different roles we serve in is the same, however - avoidance of garbage theology that is "every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting".

I think there are many more absolutes than is generally recognized. With this I don't discount the liberty Jesus Christ purchased for us to enjoy, and perhaps the area you consider gray is in that realm. That was part of the design, as well.

Matthew 17:24-26
24 ¶ When they had come to Capernaum, those who received the temple tax came to Peter and said, "Does your Teacher not pay the temple tax?"
25 He said, "Yes." And when he had come into the house, Jesus anticipated him, saying, "What do you think, Simon? From whom do the kings of the earth take customs or taxes, from their sons or from strangers?"
26 Peter said to Him, "From strangers." Jesus said to him, "Then the sons are free.

God's redemption as His adopted children has given us the same freedom over the law that the law's Creator enjoys. That freedom is the essence of liberty.

 

[bugkiller]

Just the opposite, in my opinion. The very nature of this forum is to overcome dissention concerning those things which are nailed down.

Is that even remotely possible? Maybe I need my faith stirred with even a faint ray of hope in some kind of form. At the moment I could be said to be of little faith on the idea. I do have enough to keep me going. Please don't look at me as a scoffer.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Is it possible that folks are passionate about nailed down things because they are anxious about what the world might look like if things weren't nailed down?

Wow. That was a confusing question. Sorry. Let me try again, this time with an example:

If I am passionate that I must observe the seventh-day sabbath, am I passionate because it's true or because I'm afraid of the implications of it wasn't true?
​

I submit that it is easier to move toward that which is nailed down and more challenging to accept that many things are grey.

BFA

I think that is a question that can get one into serious trouble.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Your belief of a design is confirmed in Ephesians 4:

11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers,
12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,
13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;
14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,
15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head----Christ----
16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.

My vocation is technical (electrical engineering) and my views cause me to determine how a mechanism is designed to operate. The One Who designed it nailed down parts and pieces that show a massive forethought that some of us are in the catch-up mode trying to determine. There are others who fit into God's plan to address other aspects that we aren't attuned to. The goal of the different roles we serve in is the same, however - avoidance of garbage theology that is "every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting".

I think there are many more absolutes than is generally recognized. With this I don't discount the liberty Jesus Christ purchased for us to enjoy, and perhaps the area you consider gray is in that realm. That was part of the design, as well.

Matthew 17:24-26
24 ¶ When they had come to Capernaum, those who received the temple tax came to Peter and said, "Does your Teacher not pay the temple tax?"
25 He said, "Yes." And when he had come into the house, Jesus anticipated him, saying, "What do you think, Simon? From whom do the kings of the earth take customs or taxes, from their sons or from strangers?"
26 Peter said to Him, "From strangers." Jesus said to him, "Then the sons are free.

God's redemption as His adopted children has given us the same freedom over the law that the law's Creator enjoys. That freedom is the essence of liberty.

Victor (electrical engineer) it seems somebody is hiding the code book for the Book. It certainly seems that some are talking in secret code to me. At least I realize that whatever it is doesn't match the code book I have.

bugkiller

 

[VictorC]

Victor (electrical engineer) it seems somebody is hiding the code book for the Book. It certainly seems that some are talking in secret code to me. At least I realize that whatever it is doesn't match the code book I have.

bugkiller

Willy from CARM sells the secret SDA decoder ring. Send your entire wallet to him in Anchorage, Alaska, and it will be sent out on the next slow boat to you...

 

[VictorC]

Is that even remotely possible? Maybe I need my faith stirred with even a faint ray of hope in some kind of form. At the moment I could be said to be of little faith on the idea. I do have enough to keep me going. Please don't look at me as a scoffer.

bugkiller

I would submit that the realm of the black-and-white is a greater challenge than those things we have liberty in, otherwise known as the gray area. Your uncertainty of overcoming that challenge regarding others seems to recognize this.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

[Post deleted by BFA.]