Our view of heaven

[PaladinValer]

Correction: The Hebrew uses the word "sheol" in the story of Jonah. This was neither heaven nor hell, but simply the abode of the dead.

Sheol is not physically anywhere in the "earthly" creation. It is certainly a place, but an "ethereal" one.

 

[keyarch]

That has long been my perspective. I find myself increasingly averse to language that speaks of us "going" to Heaven. I find little if any biblical support for the idea that we will leave earth and go somewhere else. What I do find is the reference in the Lord's prayer, the vision of Isaiah, and the wonderful vision of

John watching the heavenly Jerusalem descending *to* earth. There is a parable of the last judgment as well (the wheat and the tares I think) where Jesus speaks of the angels taking away the wicked while the righteous then shine as the sun in the kingdom. There is no suggestion that the righteous are removed, but rather that the wicked are removed from them.

I also think this fits in with the references to the bonding between humanity and the natural world, such as Paul's statement in Romans. I am fully convinced that it is not God's intention to save humanity apart from the salvation (healing?) of all of creation.

So I don't like "going to heaven" language because it seems to separate us from the earth we have been made to inhabit and to set up a dualistic appraisal of soul vs body that strikes me as more gnostic than Christian.

I would like to take the time to read more on Orthodox theology on this, because it seems to take a similar path.

This is scary! I'm finding myself agreeing with you and Vance on something. This is a very intriguing subject.

God hasn’t changed, and his plan for humanity should be the same. If so, then people in the Old Testament times would have had the same possibilities of the afterlife in the same place. Yet, it seems to me that they felt their souls would be somewhere in a holding pattern waiting for the new kingdom. But, I don’t really understand if they lived their lives with that anticipation or merely feared God and worshiped Him to keep in grace and have blessings while they were living.

I have to say I feel ignorant on this subject now.

 

[Vance]

I think we should all feel ignorant and humble when attempting to understand the things of God. :0)

 

[gluadys]

This is scary! I'm finding myself agreeing with you and Vance on something. This is a very intriguing subject.

It is a strange feeling to find oneself in agreement with an opponent. Just goes to show we are all human. And that we can find avenues to wisdom we would never expect.

Some of my thinking on this goes back to my early exposure to the theology of Jehovah's Witnesses, a group whose views on virtually any other topic I definitively rejected before I was 15. Weird, eh?

I have to say I feel ignorant on this subject now.

What Vance said.

 

[shernren]

Should God remove sin from this universe I would daresay it would feel a lot like Heaven, no?

I believe that at this moment the spiritual (where angels, demons etc. are) sort of "overlays" the physical universe where we live but bounded off by God's provisions in some way ... and when sin is removed it will be safe once again for us to enjoy the spiritual universe as much as the physical universe. Imagine if God let people into Heaven now ... there would be nothing but charred ashes left in His presence!

Beyond that, I'm really quite hesitant to speculate about the "where" of eternity. The "when" of eternity, though, is really quite interesting.

 

[Vance]

Shenren, I am with you on this one. In Celtic Christianity, they spoke of "thin places" where the barrier between God's realm and our earthly realm was "thinner" than others. Holy places.